Car air-on, any experts on here?
Discussion
We have an aged Corrolla, about '93 model. The air-con was erratic for a while, then it died two weeks ago, and we took it to check the gas. Something was amiss, and the local shop said something about how they 'couldn't put too much gas in as the pressure would be too high'.
Next day the high pressure hose from the compressor burst, spewing oil out everywhere.
New hose made, re-gassed up, and they said there was some problem with the low pressure side being over 70psi.
I read somewhere that there is supposed to be a measured amount of oil in the system, but I didn't see the guys putting any in, and they 'freon' was in the normal gas position as they filled it.
There was an argument with the shop, as they had damaged our evaporator, denied it etc, and we won't be going back to those clowns.
A week passes and the system died again last night, blowing no cold air, then a few minutes later we noticed the compressor was so hot it was smoking.
So, something is toasted. I have a feeling there is an over-pressure problem, but not sure where. We've had a new expansion valve and a dryer fitted already.
ps. We're in the Philippines, so no such thing as customer rights, fair trading, common sense etc etc.
Next day the high pressure hose from the compressor burst, spewing oil out everywhere.
New hose made, re-gassed up, and they said there was some problem with the low pressure side being over 70psi.
I read somewhere that there is supposed to be a measured amount of oil in the system, but I didn't see the guys putting any in, and they 'freon' was in the normal gas position as they filled it.
There was an argument with the shop, as they had damaged our evaporator, denied it etc, and we won't be going back to those clowns.
A week passes and the system died again last night, blowing no cold air, then a few minutes later we noticed the compressor was so hot it was smoking.
So, something is toasted. I have a feeling there is an over-pressure problem, but not sure where. We've had a new expansion valve and a dryer fitted already.
ps. We're in the Philippines, so no such thing as customer rights, fair trading, common sense etc etc.
It sounds as though they just added a can (or they wouldn't have said we can't add too much....)
Normal proceedure. (after replacing a part)
Vac for 10 minutes..leave for 20 min + to see if it holds vacuum.
If ok then vac for 1 hour, then bung in the required amount as per car. ie 20oz -25oz. While watching the high side. It should be about 260 (There are charts for each car showing max high side for the temp and humidity.) The low side should pull down to 30 as the idle is raised.
NB. When the car is at rest, AC off the high and low side will both be close to the ambient temp if the system is full. So 80ish.
Original problem of AC being erratic, assuming compressor solonoid is operating sounds like a blocked expansion valve (or orifice tube)
If erratic because of sol dropping out, then prob low on freon due to a leak.
Most common leak is compressor seal.
Did he use proper gauges, or just a single gauge on the low side. I'm guessing the later. Otherwise he would have seen the high side was going too high.
Having lived in the land of "sticky", I would consider changing a few of the bits. So that it will not cause any further probs.
US prices compressor $220
expan valve $20
Drier $25
AND if you wanted to do it yourself
A set of NAPA guages $80
Decent vac pump $220, it's 110v but I'm sure you already have a transformer for the smuggled Japanese TV.
Normal proceedure. (after replacing a part)
Vac for 10 minutes..leave for 20 min + to see if it holds vacuum.
If ok then vac for 1 hour, then bung in the required amount as per car. ie 20oz -25oz. While watching the high side. It should be about 260 (There are charts for each car showing max high side for the temp and humidity.) The low side should pull down to 30 as the idle is raised.
NB. When the car is at rest, AC off the high and low side will both be close to the ambient temp if the system is full. So 80ish.
Original problem of AC being erratic, assuming compressor solonoid is operating sounds like a blocked expansion valve (or orifice tube)
If erratic because of sol dropping out, then prob low on freon due to a leak.
Most common leak is compressor seal.
Did he use proper gauges, or just a single gauge on the low side. I'm guessing the later. Otherwise he would have seen the high side was going too high.
Having lived in the land of "sticky", I would consider changing a few of the bits. So that it will not cause any further probs.
US prices compressor $220
expan valve $20
Drier $25
AND if you wanted to do it yourself
A set of NAPA guages $80
Decent vac pump $220, it's 110v but I'm sure you already have a transformer for the smuggled Japanese TV.
Yes, oil should have been added. Without it the compressor will eat itself. Happened to me recently.
Has to be the right oil for the system as well. Mine is 'pag 3 - ISO150' for instance, about an ounce.
It seems that if they definitely put no oil in then you could blame the compressor death on them.
Andy
Has to be the right oil for the system as well. Mine is 'pag 3 - ISO150' for instance, about an ounce.
It seems that if they definitely put no oil in then you could blame the compressor death on them.
Andy
They're talking about £100 brand new, but we'll take it to a 'proper' shop in a couple of days and ask what they reckon. I think the whole system needs a proper going over after the last cowboys messed with it.
We really need a better car, as this one is uber high mileage, and mega worn out, but money is tight while we build our house so a car is not going to happen for a while.
We really need a better car, as this one is uber high mileage, and mega worn out, but money is tight while we build our house so a car is not going to happen for a while.
Questions to ask your new shop.
What to look for.
They should have proper manifold gauges, one set for R12 and one for 143a,
134a gauges are snap on type high & low different sizes.(R12 are screw on)
Ask them how long they will vac it before charging. good answer 1 hour.
What should my high side be when fully charged. They should answer immeadiatly !!! They shouldn't have to think. I haven't done an AC in Pinoyland so I don't want to give a definate pressure because with the humidity it could be lower, but 260 - 280 for 80F ambient.
It is possible they might be able to O/H the compressor. An o/h Jap could be better that a new Chinese one!
Ask them to check if the high and low pressure switch is disabled/bypassed, it sounds as someone has been tinkering.
If they fit a new comp they come WITH oil.(they might add a little extra for the drier)
Make sure they are using the green O rings, pag oil them before fitting.
One thing to check yourself. Make sure the arrow on the drier points towards the evaporater (the bit next to the heater matrix.)
Or buy a jeep
What to look for.
They should have proper manifold gauges, one set for R12 and one for 143a,
134a gauges are snap on type high & low different sizes.(R12 are screw on)
Ask them how long they will vac it before charging. good answer 1 hour.
What should my high side be when fully charged. They should answer immeadiatly !!! They shouldn't have to think. I haven't done an AC in Pinoyland so I don't want to give a definate pressure because with the humidity it could be lower, but 260 - 280 for 80F ambient.
It is possible they might be able to O/H the compressor. An o/h Jap could be better that a new Chinese one!
Ask them to check if the high and low pressure switch is disabled/bypassed, it sounds as someone has been tinkering.
If they fit a new comp they come WITH oil.(they might add a little extra for the drier)
Make sure they are using the green O rings, pag oil them before fitting.
One thing to check yourself. Make sure the arrow on the drier points towards the evaporater (the bit next to the heater matrix.)
Or buy a jeep
Quick Air Con questions myself that I don't think really warrants it's own thread...
I bought a new (2003) car recently. The air-con doesn't blow cold so I had it regassed at Kwik Fit (was a hot Sunday and going on a long journey so was the only real option). Waited for around an hour for the job to be done (although sounds too short having read this thread...), paid my money and left.
The air-con worked fantastic for the journey and for the rest of the day but having been left over night, the cold air was gone and was back to how it was pre-regas.
I assume there is likely a leak somewhere or could it just be a bodge job by Kwik Fit? Can I assume that there wont be anything major at fault considering that the system worked great for the day the regas was done?
Cheers!
I bought a new (2003) car recently. The air-con doesn't blow cold so I had it regassed at Kwik Fit (was a hot Sunday and going on a long journey so was the only real option). Waited for around an hour for the job to be done (although sounds too short having read this thread...), paid my money and left.
The air-con worked fantastic for the journey and for the rest of the day but having been left over night, the cold air was gone and was back to how it was pre-regas.
I assume there is likely a leak somewhere or could it just be a bodge job by Kwik Fit? Can I assume that there wont be anything major at fault considering that the system worked great for the day the regas was done?
Cheers!
Deluded said:
Quick Air Con questions myself that I don't think really warrants it's own thread...
I bought a new (2003) car recently. The air-con doesn't blow cold so I had it regassed at Kwik Fit (was a hot Sunday and going on a long journey so was the only real option). Waited for around an hour for the job to be done (although sounds too short having read this thread...), paid my money and left.
The air-con worked fantastic for the journey and for the rest of the day but having been left over night, the cold air was gone and was back to how it was pre-regas.
I assume there is likely a leak somewhere or could it just be a bodge job by Kwik Fit? Can I assume that there wont be anything major at fault considering that the system worked great for the day the regas was done?
Cheers!
Over the years a car get worse as there are two shraeder valves that will obviously let a little out over time! Although a 2003 should still be tight. A quick top up is often ok, which is what you had done(I think). They didn't cheat you, but it is possible the seller of the car was a little economic with the truth!I bought a new (2003) car recently. The air-con doesn't blow cold so I had it regassed at Kwik Fit (was a hot Sunday and going on a long journey so was the only real option). Waited for around an hour for the job to be done (although sounds too short having read this thread...), paid my money and left.
The air-con worked fantastic for the journey and for the rest of the day but having been left over night, the cold air was gone and was back to how it was pre-regas.
I assume there is likely a leak somewhere or could it just be a bodge job by Kwik Fit? Can I assume that there wont be anything major at fault considering that the system worked great for the day the regas was done?
Cheers!
I would go back and ask (nicely)if they do a full check and re-charge and whether they'll discount it 'cos of the previous top up.
Sadly you cannot assume there is nothing major cos it worked for one day. Your compressor compresses but if it were the front seal in UK I think it is cheaper to put a new comp cos of the labour charge. Opposite of the Philippines where the labour is cheap but often the parts are sky high in Peso terms. (I had a taxi business there)
jeff m said:
Questions to ask your new shop.
What to look for.
They should have proper manifold gauges, one set for R12 and one for 143a,
134a gauges are snap on type high & low different sizes.(R12 are screw on)
Ask them how long they will vac it before charging. good answer 1 hour.
What should my high side be when fully charged. They should answer immeadiatly !!! They shouldn't have to think. I haven't done an AC in Pinoyland so I don't want to give a definate pressure because with the humidity it could be lower, but 260 - 280 for 80F ambient.
It is possible they might be able to O/H the compressor. An o/h Jap could be better that a new Chinese one!
Ask them to check if the high and low pressure switch is disabled/bypassed, it sounds as someone has been tinkering.
If they fit a new comp they come WITH oil.(they might add a little extra for the drier)
Make sure they are using the green O rings, pag oil them before fitting.
One thing to check yourself. Make sure the arrow on the drier points towards the evaporater (the bit next to the heater matrix.)
Or buy a jeep
I'll have a word with the new place, see what they say, but translation can be a chore. What to look for.
They should have proper manifold gauges, one set for R12 and one for 143a,
134a gauges are snap on type high & low different sizes.(R12 are screw on)
Ask them how long they will vac it before charging. good answer 1 hour.
What should my high side be when fully charged. They should answer immeadiatly !!! They shouldn't have to think. I haven't done an AC in Pinoyland so I don't want to give a definate pressure because with the humidity it could be lower, but 260 - 280 for 80F ambient.
It is possible they might be able to O/H the compressor. An o/h Jap could be better that a new Chinese one!
Ask them to check if the high and low pressure switch is disabled/bypassed, it sounds as someone has been tinkering.
If they fit a new comp they come WITH oil.(they might add a little extra for the drier)
Make sure they are using the green O rings, pag oil them before fitting.
One thing to check yourself. Make sure the arrow on the drier points towards the evaporater (the bit next to the heater matrix.)
Or buy a jeep
I have noticed there are two red wires that come out of the compressor, and don't seem to go anywhere. And there is a wire 'loop' in the connector block that also provides the wire to the compressor clutch. I imagine that is the disabled switch......
King Herald said:
I'll have a word with the new place, see what they say, but translation can be a chore.
Can often be selective understanding unfortunately. the phrase below should get the message across
Hey portungina, ang awto nako pucking init.
King Herald said:
I have noticed there are two red wires that come out of the compressor, and don't seem to go anywhere. And there is a wire 'loop' in the connector block that also provides the wire to the compressor clutch. I imagine that is the disabled switch......
Usually only one wire to compressor, for op of solonoid. BUT every car is different and I've only had one Toyota. I think the Toyota is a dual switch, ie high and low in one. It is possible that there was a need to disable the switch if it isan R12 conversion, not all 93s were 134a. Plenty of clever mechs and elec bods in the Philippines. Point out you suspect wiring not original because high side pressure switch should have prevented the hose blowing.
I personally would not disable a dual switch. (I may have at sometime disabled a high
)Sometimes a little tinkering is a cost effective or a parts availabilty fix.
One of the joys of living on $50 a month
jeff m said:
One of the joys of living on $50 a month
Bwaaahahahahahahaaaaa BWAAAAAhahahahahah. 
If only you knew mate. If you want to live to western standards you pay western prices nowadays. It has gotten very expensive here in the last few years.
I'll ask about the wiring, see if they can give me an idea what is going on.
Well, the car is in the shop, and it needs a new compressor, £200, and the guy recommends a new dryer and expansion v/v as they will probably be dirty and fouled with whatever crap is floating round the system from the last cowboys. The evaporator is probably junk too.
We're probably talking about 300 quid ++, which is more than you'd pay for the whole car in the UK.
We're probably talking about 300 quid ++, which is more than you'd pay for the whole car in the UK.
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