Discussion
Hi folks,
Last April, I took delivery of an STI 330S hatch and it's been absolutely fine for almost all of that. It's just turned 21,000 miles and, out of the blue, it decided to lunch 600ml of oil in 1 week. Not a lot, in the grand scheme of things, but it had never used a drop prior to that. I took it to the dealers and they measured the oil level, topped it to maximum (though when I read the dipstick, it's actually showing quite a bit over maximum, but they said they'd filled it perfectly) and the idea was for me to drive 1000 miles and for them to measure it again, probably in 3-4 weeks as I've only managed 300 miles so far. I've been worried re the oil so been keeping a religious check on it before most journeys given all the ringland failure reports on this engine, but it's not actually dropped at all since the dealer topped it up (or overfilled it?).
It was fine and hearty yesterday but, today, I seem to have a very flat engine. Even Sport sharp feels like INtelligent mode. It starts fine, idles fine, runs fine, just has no boost above a small surge 3k. There's no hesitation present either. No lights on the dash, no obvious hoses come off, or split., and the fuel cap is properly on, in case anyone asks. I just have very poor boost. Typically, today is a bank holiday in Edinburgh and the dealer service department is closed. Spoke to sales but there recommendation was to phone first thing tomorrow. Which means another 30 miles of driving, which I'm not entirely happy about in case it goes boom, to get home tonight and then back to Edinburgh tomorrow.
Does this scenario ring any bells with anyone? The car has full Subaru service history and only has OEM options, no tuning parts (Prodrive springs, STI lip and foglights). It has been religiously run on super unleaded since buying it.
Hopefully find more out tomorrow, and have the usual arguing about courtesy cars (being a vet, I need to be mobile...hence buying a Subaru for reliability...haha). The only other relevant thing I can think of is I did notice an electrical burning smell yesterday, but assumed it was the elderly Passat I was following. It's only today I'm thinking that something has given way (a relay or solenoid?) but is only affecting the turbo. I know all about the piston ring failures on the 08-11 STIs, but there's been no further oil loss and no hestitation, which most owners seem to report prior to failure.
Last April, I took delivery of an STI 330S hatch and it's been absolutely fine for almost all of that. It's just turned 21,000 miles and, out of the blue, it decided to lunch 600ml of oil in 1 week. Not a lot, in the grand scheme of things, but it had never used a drop prior to that. I took it to the dealers and they measured the oil level, topped it to maximum (though when I read the dipstick, it's actually showing quite a bit over maximum, but they said they'd filled it perfectly) and the idea was for me to drive 1000 miles and for them to measure it again, probably in 3-4 weeks as I've only managed 300 miles so far. I've been worried re the oil so been keeping a religious check on it before most journeys given all the ringland failure reports on this engine, but it's not actually dropped at all since the dealer topped it up (or overfilled it?).
It was fine and hearty yesterday but, today, I seem to have a very flat engine. Even Sport sharp feels like INtelligent mode. It starts fine, idles fine, runs fine, just has no boost above a small surge 3k. There's no hesitation present either. No lights on the dash, no obvious hoses come off, or split., and the fuel cap is properly on, in case anyone asks. I just have very poor boost. Typically, today is a bank holiday in Edinburgh and the dealer service department is closed. Spoke to sales but there recommendation was to phone first thing tomorrow. Which means another 30 miles of driving, which I'm not entirely happy about in case it goes boom, to get home tonight and then back to Edinburgh tomorrow.
Does this scenario ring any bells with anyone? The car has full Subaru service history and only has OEM options, no tuning parts (Prodrive springs, STI lip and foglights). It has been religiously run on super unleaded since buying it.
Hopefully find more out tomorrow, and have the usual arguing about courtesy cars (being a vet, I need to be mobile...hence buying a Subaru for reliability...haha). The only other relevant thing I can think of is I did notice an electrical burning smell yesterday, but assumed it was the elderly Passat I was following. It's only today I'm thinking that something has given way (a relay or solenoid?) but is only affecting the turbo. I know all about the piston ring failures on the 08-11 STIs, but there's been no further oil loss and no hestitation, which most owners seem to report prior to failure.
This Topic maybe worth a read
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-general-1/82899...
Although the 330s is not normally associated with the 2006-2009 2.5ltr piston ring land failure as runs a better Map IMHO
Tony
I've looked at similar threads all over the web and many of the signs just aren't present. No smoke, no blow out the oil cap or dipstick when running, no hesitation. Hopefully some simple relay or solenoid issue with the turbo! But I do know a few 330Ss that have gone boom, including a few that were run by constabularies doon south.
If you can get hold of a hand held EOBD/OBDII diagnostic device plug it into the OBD port directly below the steering wheel column (it's recessed into the plastic dash cowling) and check for error codes.
Some sensors even though faulty don't always set off a DTC or check engine light. If there is a problem you can quickly see on the hand held device display what the corresponding code is. Just make sure you make a written note of it.
Whether you do or don't find an error code do a reset of the ECU (clear codes) and see how it runs over the next couple of days.
If that doesn't help then you'll definately have to seek dealer assistance. It might pay to see a scooby specialist for a 2nd opinion though because dealers don't always get it right.
At least you have a factory warranty you can fall back on so hopefully it's shouldn't cost you a penny. Equally, if it does go bang or anything major happens then regardless of where you are or what has happened eveything should be covered under warranty.
If you aren't happy about something with your car, shout and whinge at the dealer as that is what they are there for. Even if they say there is nothing wrong with the car and you still aren't happy with it keep at them untill things are sorted to your satisfaction.
Some sensors even though faulty don't always set off a DTC or check engine light. If there is a problem you can quickly see on the hand held device display what the corresponding code is. Just make sure you make a written note of it.
Whether you do or don't find an error code do a reset of the ECU (clear codes) and see how it runs over the next couple of days.
If that doesn't help then you'll definately have to seek dealer assistance. It might pay to see a scooby specialist for a 2nd opinion though because dealers don't always get it right.
At least you have a factory warranty you can fall back on so hopefully it's shouldn't cost you a penny. Equally, if it does go bang or anything major happens then regardless of where you are or what has happened eveything should be covered under warranty.
If you aren't happy about something with your car, shout and whinge at the dealer as that is what they are there for. Even if they say there is nothing wrong with the car and you still aren't happy with it keep at them untill things are sorted to your satisfaction.
As for Oil consumption, if no loss of power, could be Turbo Oil seals leaking and bearing issue, it has happened to me, I would notice some blue smoke now and again, but sometimes loads sometime none 
with loss of power maybe turbo has given up from bearing failure, have you heard any meatalic noises like exhaust "Tinging"
if Turbo is OK and still loss of power and no check engine light seems like boost control,
on the turbo there is a small hose going to a Brass/silver coloured diapham. This works a Arm to a lever on the side of turbo to open/close wastegate on exhaust.
I think if you watch this arm/lever with engine stopped, watch it, as car is started, then when you rev it up and down from tick over. it SHOULD move if it doesn't move try moving it gently with screwdriver. Sometimes these can jam open, turbo spins but boost all goes down exhaust.
if it doesn't moves on it's own but does move with screwdriver OK, check relay, Fuses and Pipework
Check relay operating (on Hawkeye models you could hear/feel the boost relay click in by the fuse box) when put foot down and engine reaches boost ( maybe 2500rpm ish ) if this is working check boost control pipework
look at smallest hosepipe by throttle body (very fiddly to get to between top intercooler and inlet manifolds ish) the pipe should lead over 3 port valve on inner wing IIRC (also check cable is on 3 port Valve.
Tony
with loss of power maybe turbo has given up from bearing failure, have you heard any meatalic noises like exhaust "Tinging"
if Turbo is OK and still loss of power and no check engine light seems like boost control,
on the turbo there is a small hose going to a Brass/silver coloured diapham. This works a Arm to a lever on the side of turbo to open/close wastegate on exhaust.
I think if you watch this arm/lever with engine stopped, watch it, as car is started, then when you rev it up and down from tick over. it SHOULD move
if it doesn't move try moving it gently with screwdriver. Sometimes these can jam open, turbo spins but boost all goes down exhaust.if it doesn't moves on it's own but does move with screwdriver OK, check relay, Fuses and Pipework
Check relay operating (on Hawkeye models you could hear/feel the boost relay click in by the fuse box) when put foot down and engine reaches boost ( maybe 2500rpm ish ) if this is working check boost control pipework
look at smallest hosepipe by throttle body (very fiddly to get to between top intercooler and inlet manifolds ish)
the pipe should lead over 3 port valve on inner wing IIRC (also check cable is on 3 port Valve.Tony
THanks Tony. Will keep these all in mind in case I get the usual dealer "we can't find anything wrong" speech. Pretty sure it's electrical of some description.
Edit: it would appear the dealers are too busy to bother seeing a top of the range, £30k, car when it goes very wrong suddenly. Won't pick it up until tomorrow. Great. Last Subaru I'll be buying then.
Edit: it would appear the dealers are too busy to bother seeing a top of the range, £30k, car when it goes very wrong suddenly. Won't pick it up until tomorrow. Great. Last Subaru I'll be buying then.
Edited by Ali_T on Tuesday 30th August 09:00
Where to start? An interesting few days. It came back from the dealers, having been there all day, without the delivery driver knowing anything and no contact from the dealership. So I took it home, noting that the trip computer that had read 47 miles and 29mpg now read 63 miles and 20mpg.
Next morning, started it up and, lo and behold, lots of blue smoke. It cleared on the way to work, but I tried it later after it had been sitting for a while and the same again, and the same this morning. I phoned the dealership yesterday to be told they couldn't find anything wrong!!! They said they'd reset "a few parameters" ( I read that as, we didn't bother our arses because it wasn't glaringly obvious) on the ECU and to see how it goes. To which I pointed out that, not only was it still down around 150bhp and kangarooing everytime you reached 2500rpm, but it now had clouds of blue smoke on start up. I was told they'd phone back after speaking to IM. Also worth noting that an inspection of the engine bay showed they hadn't even taken the intercooler screws off to check the pipework underneath, the first place I'd have started if I was checking for boost issues. In fact, I;m not actually convinced they did anything bar connect up the bloody diagnostic computer. Given that I'd already told them it hadn't shown an engine warning light, I didn't expect it to have shown anything.
After phoning 4 times, both yesterday, and today, I finally got through and they said that they've sent the ECU data to IM for a verdict. My sarcastic quip that I didn't think Subaru had a "huge plumes of blue smoke sensor" connected to the ECU seemed wasted on him. I've already mentioned the dreaded piston ring failure, verbally, to them, yet he told me just to drive the car normally until he hears back from IM! So, I should just go about my merry way, happily revving an engine with a suspected ringland failure then, should I? Apparently so!!!
I won't, of course, because I thought I'd left motorway hard shoulders and the AA behind me when I stopped buying Alfas, but I'm, so far, completely unimpressed with Subaru. I'll get it fixed and then get rid of it. Wonder if I should be cheeky and ask the sales dept to price it to buy back, given that the service manager said it was fine on Thursday?
Next morning, started it up and, lo and behold, lots of blue smoke. It cleared on the way to work, but I tried it later after it had been sitting for a while and the same again, and the same this morning. I phoned the dealership yesterday to be told they couldn't find anything wrong!!! They said they'd reset "a few parameters" ( I read that as, we didn't bother our arses because it wasn't glaringly obvious) on the ECU and to see how it goes. To which I pointed out that, not only was it still down around 150bhp and kangarooing everytime you reached 2500rpm, but it now had clouds of blue smoke on start up. I was told they'd phone back after speaking to IM. Also worth noting that an inspection of the engine bay showed they hadn't even taken the intercooler screws off to check the pipework underneath, the first place I'd have started if I was checking for boost issues. In fact, I;m not actually convinced they did anything bar connect up the bloody diagnostic computer. Given that I'd already told them it hadn't shown an engine warning light, I didn't expect it to have shown anything.
After phoning 4 times, both yesterday, and today, I finally got through and they said that they've sent the ECU data to IM for a verdict. My sarcastic quip that I didn't think Subaru had a "huge plumes of blue smoke sensor" connected to the ECU seemed wasted on him. I've already mentioned the dreaded piston ring failure, verbally, to them, yet he told me just to drive the car normally until he hears back from IM! So, I should just go about my merry way, happily revving an engine with a suspected ringland failure then, should I? Apparently so!!!
I won't, of course, because I thought I'd left motorway hard shoulders and the AA behind me when I stopped buying Alfas, but I'm, so far, completely unimpressed with Subaru. I'll get it fixed and then get rid of it. Wonder if I should be cheeky and ask the sales dept to price it to buy back, given that the service manager said it was fine on Thursday?
Edited by Ali_T on Friday 2nd September 19:29
Edited by Ali_T on Saturday 3rd September 08:35
Number of things spring to mind but really none for you to have to check as they should have / do.
Blue smoke means the oil is heated but not burnt so either lots going threw the engine or it is the turbo leaking it into the exhaust. If they topped the oil up further it will go through the breathers and the turbo and engine and blow blue smoke if there is a lot.
If it is still not breathing heavy out of oil filler then imho its either a failed turbo or it is consuming oil thats gone through the breathers due to overfilling or even a blocked breather.
Obviously when you do use it check the oil level as if it is turbo it will drop the oil level and damage the engine.
I hope they work out which is their arse and which is your elbow and sort it for you.
Simon
Blue smoke means the oil is heated but not burnt so either lots going threw the engine or it is the turbo leaking it into the exhaust. If they topped the oil up further it will go through the breathers and the turbo and engine and blow blue smoke if there is a lot.
If it is still not breathing heavy out of oil filler then imho its either a failed turbo or it is consuming oil thats gone through the breathers due to overfilling or even a blocked breather.
Obviously when you do use it check the oil level as if it is turbo it will drop the oil level and damage the engine.
I hope they work out which is their arse and which is your elbow and sort it for you.
Simon
THanks for that JGM. THe power loss is continuing to get worse. I'd anticipate it's only running around 140-150bhp with lots of flat spots in the rev range. They're taking it back in on Wednesday for "more tests". I do hope one of these tests involves arse and elbow identification. And I wish they'd hurry up because I want shot of the car ASAP.
JFReturns said:
paulmoonraker said:
Bloody hatch backs... How did they go from the 2ltr blocks of 2005 to this. All I read about is problems...
Really that bad? It's that time of year when I fancy another car, and a hatchback WRX fits the bill 
Just most of what you read seems negative. Sure, people only post the bad things on forums etc, so it can be misleading... If you do get one, get the STi... I can run faster than the WRX
Very few WRXs have failed, but lots of STIs have. I'm not sure of the difference, but looking back, there are plenty of pre-hatch 2.5 litre STI "Hawkeye" models that went bang as well. It's the engine that's the problem, regardless of what car it's in, but it's under a lot more stress in the STI and, thus, more likely to go bang. I believe the UK failure rate is around 9%, though Subaru claim 2%. In the US it's closer to 15% which is extraordinary for a Japanese manufacturer. Even Alfa and Renault would be embarrassed by that level!
Evo for me next... A bigger cylinder bore will always be weaker, coupled with chocolate pistons (cast not forged I believe)... Shame really as it limits mapping/turbo potential etc without major engine work which is expensive... Also, I have driven the 2.5 and 2.0 and I have to say, the 2.0 is so much more raucous...
I would like to hear JGM's views on this actually...
Sorry about the shout, but I have always wanted to use that one
-P
I would like to hear JGM's views on this actually...Sorry about the shout, but I have always wanted to use that one
-P
I think there is deffo issues with the map on the 2.5 sti. I have mapped so many that if the engine was purely at fault I would find them expiring even sooner after making more power and torque from them.
Seen 360bhp and 415lb regularly on the hawk and hatch sti.
When the hawk wrx was brand new I did one at 420bhp and it is stilk running at that on the same engine 5years later.
Also the 2.5 bottom end has been added to many many classics and mapped to around 400/400 with the only common issue being head gaskets but the cosworth stopper gaskets appear to work very well and resolve that issue.
For a road car the drivability of the 2.5 is excellent but they normally all use oil and it needs checking regular.
If I had to buy an impreza and keep it relatively standard (exhaust and remap) then I think I would go with a jdm twin scroll sti 2litre.
Simon
Seen 360bhp and 415lb regularly on the hawk and hatch sti.
When the hawk wrx was brand new I did one at 420bhp and it is stilk running at that on the same engine 5years later.
Also the 2.5 bottom end has been added to many many classics and mapped to around 400/400 with the only common issue being head gaskets but the cosworth stopper gaskets appear to work very well and resolve that issue.
For a road car the drivability of the 2.5 is excellent but they normally all use oil and it needs checking regular.
If I had to buy an impreza and keep it relatively standard (exhaust and remap) then I think I would go with a jdm twin scroll sti 2litre.
Simon
The 2.5 was never meant to be an STI engine. It was supposed to be for the Legacy. But the US market wanted more torques and they got what they wanted. Not only are the pistons cast, but the piston ring material seems to be more brittle than previously. Interesting picture of a failed one here: http://machvsti.blogspot.com/2008/11/brittle-pisto...
The 2.0, as you say, has forged internals. It also revs to 8000 rpm rather than getting to 6000rpm and deciding it's bored with boost now and would like to retire for a cup of Horlicks and a nice Mr. Kipling. It seems crazy that JDM STIs have the "correct" engine, yet the rest of the world has to put up with this half hearted lump with all its failings.
As for me, I'm not sure. Possibly an Evo next, but I'm in my 40s with young kids, so the ride firmness and more focussed nature of the Evo might jar with SWMBO. Might have a look at a Golf R as well.
The 2.0, as you say, has forged internals. It also revs to 8000 rpm rather than getting to 6000rpm and deciding it's bored with boost now and would like to retire for a cup of Horlicks and a nice Mr. Kipling. It seems crazy that JDM STIs have the "correct" engine, yet the rest of the world has to put up with this half hearted lump with all its failings.
As for me, I'm not sure. Possibly an Evo next, but I'm in my 40s with young kids, so the ride firmness and more focussed nature of the Evo might jar with SWMBO. Might have a look at a Golf R as well.
Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 7th September 09:28
- I have twin girls @ 2 years old and rock hard Tein Coilovers on my STi along with the loudest exhaust in the world...The 2.5 does make for a nice road car, and the lower down torque makes for a more progressive car. However, personally I like the revvy 2ltr, and it also seems to make more sense on a track.
Sounds like the map to me, but the engine is also inherently weaker.
They say the issue was sorted by a map change in 2008, because the original map was allowing detonation issues. However, there are still failures happening, even on the new 2011 saloons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN0sNjO-rU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DN0sNjO-rU
Car has gone back in to the dealers and, lo and behold, the MetaSat telemetry has just sent a text saying the speed limit has been broached. Given that I've got it set to 100mph and the coordinates are on a 60 limit A road, and the engine is borked, I'd like to hear how they explain this one. If they dare say the engine damage is due to hard use (as some owners have been accused by dealers) I have handy amounts of evidence thanks to the on board tracker. Not to mention that they exceeded 90 on 4 occasions last week, in the same region.
EDIT: Bloody hell, it's just texted me to say it was doing 114mph now! Dealer being phoned and given a b
king.
EDIT: Bloody hell, it's just texted me to say it was doing 114mph now! Dealer being phoned and given a b
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