Andy Carter retirement
Discussion
and with dave wilsons up coming retirement we have our pro teams reduced even more, british drag racing is in dire straights and very few people realize it
someone said something to me today that was very disturbing and very true,
in 90% of british sportsman drag racing there is no such thing as a track record or a class record,
exeptions being super mod and street eliminator and NAAF who do have some tallent between them
that is a disturbing realization
iv heard money being used as an excuse for this country not producing pro racers
take a stroll down the pits and look at the motorhomes and trailers in the sportsman pits then try and tell me theres no money being spent...
someone said something to me today that was very disturbing and very true,
in 90% of british sportsman drag racing there is no such thing as a track record or a class record,
exeptions being super mod and street eliminator and NAAF who do have some tallent between them
that is a disturbing realization
iv heard money being used as an excuse for this country not producing pro racers
take a stroll down the pits and look at the motorhomes and trailers in the sportsman pits then try and tell me theres no money being spent...
Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 1st September 10:12
no one is sugesting anyone buy a fuel car but the fact is even if suitcases of cash was distributed to racers , the knowledge base required to run a pro style car is simply not there,
no one bothers to learn anything,
and no one would be able to step up to the mark no one in the sportsman classes looks like a candidate to move up with the exeption of a couple of guys in super Mod who could probably lean enough fast enough if they chose that route
who is there in this country who realy has the knowledge to run FIA competitive TMD or TMFC who isnt already doing it, and im talking about threatening Dave wilson,Fred hansen or Ulf Leanders
I had the best parts right from the start of my pro mod carrear, its taken almost 4 years to get to grips with it and learn stuff we thought we already knew...
ok supposing i gave my cuda to someone and i mean anyone i beleive there is maybe 2 guys in the UK who would have a clue how to run/tune it and i mean clutch/fuel/everything to make it run fast enough adrian spencer and danny cockerill...thats it there is no one else who would come close to running that car properly outside of those already doing so,
although there is no doubt people reading this who dissagree and think they have what it takes...i can tell you catagoricaly you dont...
the knowledge is dying from our sport and it will eventuly kill the sport if left to rot,
and as for records there is nothing like owning a record in drag racing .......nothing,
something very few racers in our entire sport have experienced these days
its something to be revered nd something to jelously guard
and when someone takes it it hurts and makes you try to get it back...
thats when the real racing and learning process starts...
you know what the swedes and others have that we dont
stock eliminator and super stock style classes,
classes where you have to work at going fast instead of buying a big ci engine that is realy a turd and putting it in a light car and thinking your clever
these guys have to work at their racing and it produces racers
no one bothers to learn anything,
and no one would be able to step up to the mark no one in the sportsman classes looks like a candidate to move up with the exeption of a couple of guys in super Mod who could probably lean enough fast enough if they chose that route
who is there in this country who realy has the knowledge to run FIA competitive TMD or TMFC who isnt already doing it, and im talking about threatening Dave wilson,Fred hansen or Ulf Leanders
I had the best parts right from the start of my pro mod carrear, its taken almost 4 years to get to grips with it and learn stuff we thought we already knew...
ok supposing i gave my cuda to someone and i mean anyone i beleive there is maybe 2 guys in the UK who would have a clue how to run/tune it and i mean clutch/fuel/everything to make it run fast enough adrian spencer and danny cockerill...thats it there is no one else who would come close to running that car properly outside of those already doing so,
although there is no doubt people reading this who dissagree and think they have what it takes...i can tell you catagoricaly you dont...
the knowledge is dying from our sport and it will eventuly kill the sport if left to rot,
and as for records there is nothing like owning a record in drag racing .......nothing,
something very few racers in our entire sport have experienced these days
its something to be revered nd something to jelously guard
and when someone takes it it hurts and makes you try to get it back...
thats when the real racing and learning process starts...
you know what the swedes and others have that we dont
stock eliminator and super stock style classes,
classes where you have to work at going fast instead of buying a big ci engine that is realy a turd and putting it in a light car and thinking your clever
these guys have to work at their racing and it produces racers
Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 1st September 10:54
Wicked Fish makes a great point. Look what Dave Wilson started with - four cylinder Ford engines from a scrap yard running a blower in junior dragster, then years of running well in an under financed alcohol dragster - did he learn much and did it get him anywhere? Of course it did.
When replying to the theme on Comp Eliminator, I noted the lack of small engine cars. When you do something different you have to learn. Big blocks, 'glides, bracket racing and electronics killed innovation, and learning how to make parts work and live.
We set a class record 22 years ago of 8.95 in a four cylinder dragster on nitrous with four drilled two shilling pieces shimming the valve springs to within a few thou of coil bind, a bastardised homemade Jag/Hillman Imp axle, Raleigh chopper bicycle front rims and moped tyres. We learnt that was pretty dangerous but we also learnt about power to weight as well.
Best of luck yo Andy in his retirement.
When replying to the theme on Comp Eliminator, I noted the lack of small engine cars. When you do something different you have to learn. Big blocks, 'glides, bracket racing and electronics killed innovation, and learning how to make parts work and live.
We set a class record 22 years ago of 8.95 in a four cylinder dragster on nitrous with four drilled two shilling pieces shimming the valve springs to within a few thou of coil bind, a bastardised homemade Jag/Hillman Imp axle, Raleigh chopper bicycle front rims and moped tyres. We learnt that was pretty dangerous but we also learnt about power to weight as well.
Best of luck yo Andy in his retirement.
wicked fish said:
ok supposing i gave my cuda to someone and i mean anyone i beleive there is maybe 2 guys in the UK who would have a clue how to run/tune it and i mean clutch/fuel/everything to make it run fast enough adrian spencer and danny cockerill...thats it there is no one else who would come close to running that car properly outside of those already doing so,
And surly your crew, that's the apprenticeship, that's how people learn about all classes in motor sport.It then comes down to can they afford to do it themselves with the knowledge they have picked up. The problem in this country is that knowledge can't really secure sponsorship if the individual can't fund it themselves. In the states a championship winning crew chief probably could attract sponsorship for their own car/team.
MrExile said:
We set a class record 22 years ago of 8.95 in a four cylinder dragster on nitrous with four drilled two shilling pieces shimming the valve springs to within a few thou of coil bind,
now that is funnyshurly you mean four florins... if you see a half a crowm these days youll be gobsmacked by its shere size.....
and how did you love your record, your obviously still proud of it 22 years later,
well done,
do you realize that within the american sanctioning bodys the lowest class in the index baset stock catagory is higher in the foodchain than the highest shoe whitener class, does that tell you something
Burndown said:
wicked fish said:
ok supposing i gave my cuda to someone and i mean anyone i beleive there is maybe 2 guys in the UK who would have a clue how to run/tune it and i mean clutch/fuel/everything to make it run fast enough adrian spencer and danny cockerill...thats it there is no one else who would come close to running that car properly outside of those already doing so,
And surly your crew, that's the apprenticeship, that's how people learn about all classes in motor sport.It then comes down to can they afford to do it themselves with the knowledge they have picked up. The problem in this country is that knowledge can't really secure sponsorship if the individual can't fund it themselves. In the states a championship winning crew chief probably could attract sponsorship for their own car/team.
you probably know that Andy kirk was on barry sheavals tad team 20 years ago and has been around the sport a bloody long time, and raced super mod sucessfully so my crew chief is someone who sees the value in learning stuff, he is old guard so no surprises there realy
its more people like him with the passion and drive to be the best however hard it is that will drive this sport forward,
Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 1st September 19:54
I understand that, my point is there are people with the knowledge and I am sure the desire to run their own car.
If you have enough money you can acquire the knowledge if you are willing to work at it and give it time and learn.
If you have the knowledge but no money then you can't do anything with that knowledge.
If you have enough money you can acquire the knowledge if you are willing to work at it and give it time and learn.
If you have the knowledge but no money then you can't do anything with that knowledge.
no sorry dont agree.. who is there over here that ulf leanders could call on to help run any part of his car? Dave wilson who could he call? urban Johansson who could he call to help him with his clutch when his clutch guy is sick.? there is no one,
if you have knowledge you can find a place on a lot of pro teams prety easily but not a UK based team as often as we dont have that many
but this dont start with pro teams it starts with learning in sportsman racing learning to think outsidre the box develop your own stuff try things and if it dont work try other things untill you find what does work, then refine that, keep pushing forward. this dont take money this takes initiative,
i said it befour and ill use him again as anexample
Fred Hone has a budget of about zero he scrapes from race to race, he goes real fast with nothing is deadly consistant and dont break parts... you think thats luck???
no its fred he will not be beaten by problems he works to resolve the problems without costing a packet cause he dont have a packet, that is a racer...there are teams out the with twice and thrice freds budget with cars that cost a mint that couldnt in their wildest dreams get anywhere near his performance,
they have the hardware they have the money they just need to want to learn thats whats missing...desire
put the possibilty of setting a record and then trying to keep that record in front of them, and that just might fire up the desire and get the ball rolling
if you have knowledge you can find a place on a lot of pro teams prety easily but not a UK based team as often as we dont have that many
but this dont start with pro teams it starts with learning in sportsman racing learning to think outsidre the box develop your own stuff try things and if it dont work try other things untill you find what does work, then refine that, keep pushing forward. this dont take money this takes initiative,
i said it befour and ill use him again as anexample
Fred Hone has a budget of about zero he scrapes from race to race, he goes real fast with nothing is deadly consistant and dont break parts... you think thats luck???
no its fred he will not be beaten by problems he works to resolve the problems without costing a packet cause he dont have a packet, that is a racer...there are teams out the with twice and thrice freds budget with cars that cost a mint that couldnt in their wildest dreams get anywhere near his performance,
they have the hardware they have the money they just need to want to learn thats whats missing...desire
put the possibilty of setting a record and then trying to keep that record in front of them, and that just might fire up the desire and get the ball rolling
Edited by wicked fish on Thursday 1st September 20:46
I haven't said any of this is luck the knowledge these racers have is invaluable.
I just think there is a relation between the reduction in the amount of UK pro teams and the fact our economy and currency is in much more trouble than Sweden, Finland, Norway and Switzerland.
If we were back at $2 to the pound and much better economic growth I think you would see many more UK based pro teams.
The issue with new people coming into the sport I agree with, rigid rules quash innovation.
I just think there is a relation between the reduction in the amount of UK pro teams and the fact our economy and currency is in much more trouble than Sweden, Finland, Norway and Switzerland.
If we were back at $2 to the pound and much better economic growth I think you would see many more UK based pro teams.
The issue with new people coming into the sport I agree with, rigid rules quash innovation.
Edited by Burndown on Thursday 1st September 20:38
Wicked Fish, yes felt real good to set the record, we'd set it a few times in the 88 season. When we ran 9.20, I recall coming back to the pits and Charlie Draper was saying to one of his crew 'did you here what those guys just ran?' - that was a great moment and made us realise other racers were noticing what we were doing.
We also won the World Finals that year in Super Eliminator, which was the version of comp eliminator then. Next year we opted to run heads up cos we didn't like the odd handicap system which gave big block dragster a head start on our 1200cc car, we either lost to Robin Read or Wayne Saunders first round every race at the Pod, but were Dragster Champions at Marston again running heads up. We figured we'd rather run flat out than within what we were capable of - of coure we broke stuff but also learned.
Strange thing about the 8.95 record was we'd raced at Long Marston on saturday, car runing badly, towed home to Dave Wilson's took it all to bits, finished around 7.00am Sunday, back to Marston with the Wilsons, won the race and set a record, pausing for a few beers then home again. Still owe Wilson a couple of two shilling pieces!
We also won the World Finals that year in Super Eliminator, which was the version of comp eliminator then. Next year we opted to run heads up cos we didn't like the odd handicap system which gave big block dragster a head start on our 1200cc car, we either lost to Robin Read or Wayne Saunders first round every race at the Pod, but were Dragster Champions at Marston again running heads up. We figured we'd rather run flat out than within what we were capable of - of coure we broke stuff but also learned.
Strange thing about the 8.95 record was we'd raced at Long Marston on saturday, car runing badly, towed home to Dave Wilson's took it all to bits, finished around 7.00am Sunday, back to Marston with the Wilsons, won the race and set a record, pausing for a few beers then home again. Still owe Wilson a couple of two shilling pieces!
Gassing Station | Drag Racing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff