SIX SPEED OR NOT
Discussion
Being my first post thought I would get straight into action.
I am hoping to get a caterham 7 in the near future. So as to know what I was letting myself in for I took a visit up to Millwood Motor Company just ouside Dursley. Have to say Jon the person I dealt with was very good to the point that some of the other dealers I have dealt with in the past could learn from.
Anyway got a good drive and had everything explained to me including pros and cons. Eventually ended up with the following
1.8 Roadsport 140
standard colour
standard wheels
momo wheel
4 point harness
black pack
tonneau
leather seats
However was not sure if I should go for the six speed gear box or not. So I am going back to drive a 6 speed gearbox car later on in the month.
Can anybody help on this matter
I am hoping to get a caterham 7 in the near future. So as to know what I was letting myself in for I took a visit up to Millwood Motor Company just ouside Dursley. Have to say Jon the person I dealt with was very good to the point that some of the other dealers I have dealt with in the past could learn from.
Anyway got a good drive and had everything explained to me including pros and cons. Eventually ended up with the following
1.8 Roadsport 140
standard colour
standard wheels
momo wheel
4 point harness
black pack
tonneau
leather seats
However was not sure if I should go for the six speed gear box or not. So I am going back to drive a 6 speed gearbox car later on in the month.
Can anybody help on this matter
Millwood appear to be nice guys. Your choice of 5 or 6 speed is down to what you want to use the car for.
I wonder whether the car you're looking at is a VVC (which has 140bhp). If so, then this is a torquey engine and the 5 speed may do you. The 6 speed is a fine piece of kit and nice examples are a joy to use. They can be notchy but improve with age and thhe production defects in the early boxes should have been sorted on all cars with these early boxes.
The 6 speed is direct in every gear though, whilst the 5 speed has an indirect 5th. Consequently 6th in the 6 speed is equivalent to 4th in the 5 speed. So if you do a lot of touring and aren't bothered about track days, the 5 speed may suit you.
The 5 speed generally has a lovely change too but 1st is a bit too high for a Seven.
A car with a 6 speed will always be worth more than one with a 5 speed. I'd say as much as £1,000 difference in the price, if not more (but a new 6 speed is the best part of £2k new).
I've had one 5 speed and 2 6 speed cars and without hesitation I'd go for the 6 speed every time.
I wonder whether the car you're looking at is a VVC (which has 140bhp). If so, then this is a torquey engine and the 5 speed may do you. The 6 speed is a fine piece of kit and nice examples are a joy to use. They can be notchy but improve with age and thhe production defects in the early boxes should have been sorted on all cars with these early boxes.
The 6 speed is direct in every gear though, whilst the 5 speed has an indirect 5th. Consequently 6th in the 6 speed is equivalent to 4th in the 5 speed. So if you do a lot of touring and aren't bothered about track days, the 5 speed may suit you.
The 5 speed generally has a lovely change too but 1st is a bit too high for a Seven.
A car with a 6 speed will always be worth more than one with a 5 speed. I'd say as much as £1,000 difference in the price, if not more (but a new 6 speed is the best part of £2k new).
I've had one 5 speed and 2 6 speed cars and without hesitation I'd go for the 6 speed every time.
The car I drove was an older model I think he said it was a 1.6 and 133bhp but I dont think it was a VVC. It did seem to labour in fifth and required to be knocked down a gear or two to get it going. I probably wont do a lot of track days but would still like to have it on song and it sounds a lot better too.
Hi,
The 1.6 135hp engine (which I have) really gets on song above 4500 rpm. The 6 speed is ideal to keep it on the boil if one is "making progress" or on track.
The 1.8 has a better torque spread. As has been said, if you are using the car mainly on the road, a 5spd could suit the 1.8 better than the 6sp.
Sure as hell 4500+ revs at motorway speeds, particularly on a long journey, can be a bit "wearing".
HTH,
ALan
The 1.6 135hp engine (which I have) really gets on song above 4500 rpm. The 6 speed is ideal to keep it on the boil if one is "making progress" or on track.
The 1.8 has a better torque spread. As has been said, if you are using the car mainly on the road, a 5spd could suit the 1.8 better than the 6sp.
Sure as hell 4500+ revs at motorway speeds, particularly on a long journey, can be a bit "wearing".
HTH,
ALan
That'll be a Supersport then. I had a 138 bhp Supersport 5 speed - great first Caterham. Don't buy a 5 speed then think about upgrading it to 6 - not cost effective.
My car didn't labour at all in any gear, but yes, you did have to knock it down from 5th to 4th or 3rd to give it some beans. You have to do the same with a 6 speed though - buy a 2 litre Vauxhall engined car if you want a wave of torque (nothing wrong with these and in higher tune are a more reliable bet than a highly tuned K)
Make sure that whatever you buy has at least 14 inch wheels and preferably 13 inchers too - I mention this because a lot of the 1996 era Sevens seem to have 15inch Prisoner wheels as standard.
My car didn't labour at all in any gear, but yes, you did have to knock it down from 5th to 4th or 3rd to give it some beans. You have to do the same with a 6 speed though - buy a 2 litre Vauxhall engined car if you want a wave of torque (nothing wrong with these and in higher tune are a more reliable bet than a highly tuned K)
Make sure that whatever you buy has at least 14 inch wheels and preferably 13 inchers too - I mention this because a lot of the 1996 era Sevens seem to have 15inch Prisoner wheels as standard.
Some say that 15 inch wheels with lower profile tyres are just fine. I had Goodyear Eagles on my Prisoners and the car was a pig - understeered everywhere and not a lot better when I had it flat floored either.
I've driven cars with 14 inch wheels on Yoko AO21Rs and they feel just fine. My last 2 Sevens have run 13 inch - SLR with CR500s and now R500 with AO21s. Both combinations work very well but I haven't tried the R500/AO21 on track yet. The CR500s are great tyres but can/do overheat on track - I'm told that AO21Rs shed lumps of rubber but don't give up grip when they get hot like CR500s do.
I've driven cars with 14 inch wheels on Yoko AO21Rs and they feel just fine. My last 2 Sevens have run 13 inch - SLR with CR500s and now R500 with AO21s. Both combinations work very well but I haven't tried the R500/AO21 on track yet. The CR500s are great tyres but can/do overheat on track - I'm told that AO21Rs shed lumps of rubber but don't give up grip when they get hot like CR500s do.
6 speed box....yes, yes, yes.
If you're struggling on budget get the 6 speed and go for a less pokey engine. You can upgrade the engine later very easily if you want but as has been said the upgrade from 5 to 6 speed is prohibitive.
I was in the same dilema with my first Caterham...6 speed or supersport...and even Caterham reccomended the 6 speed as making more differance to the way it drives, in the ned I went and had both of course!
A friend has a 5 speed and it seems very gappy and comes off cam too much for my (or indeed his) liking.
If you're struggling on budget get the 6 speed and go for a less pokey engine. You can upgrade the engine later very easily if you want but as has been said the upgrade from 5 to 6 speed is prohibitive.
I was in the same dilema with my first Caterham...6 speed or supersport...and even Caterham reccomended the 6 speed as making more differance to the way it drives, in the ned I went and had both of course!
A friend has a 5 speed and it seems very gappy and comes off cam too much for my (or indeed his) liking.
Bertie's right, but don't buy a 1400. At the very least go for a 1600 - these can be upgraded to 160 bhp plus for a couple of thousand - the 1400 can't.
But if you just want to tour, the 5 speed will be fine. I drove a 115 bhp 1600 Roadsport 5 speed to Nnorfolk and back recently and it was fine for that type of journey.
But if you just want to tour, the 5 speed will be fine. I drove a 115 bhp 1600 Roadsport 5 speed to Nnorfolk and back recently and it was fine for that type of journey.
Really fancy the 1.8 Raodsport so think will stick with that, and it should be a bit torquer than the 1600 I had a run in as well as quicker Is it 5.3 0-60?
Anyway just the gearbox to decide on, will probably just go for the 6 speed it its only money at the end of the day.
Mind you saying that would the 120bhp engine car be a good first buy? Have not driven one so has anybody else?
Anyway just the gearbox to decide on, will probably just go for the 6 speed it its only money at the end of the day.
Mind you saying that would the 120bhp engine car be a good first buy? Have not driven one so has anybody else?
The 1800 is fine - ultimately not as revvy as the 1600, but the engine that the R400/R500 are based on.
I'm not sure what engine provides 120bhp. The 115 bhp 1600 K is fine. The 140 Roadsport you are talking about sounds like either a Supersport without catalyst or a VVC - I don't know which. I take it you have a choice of 5 or 6 speed cars, rather than paying for a gearbox swap?
Pricewise, anything with a 6 speed is going to top £11k (although you can find 1400 Supersport 6 speeds for as low as £8600). Dealers always charge more than private sales of course - check out www.blatchat.com for more cars and findit.co.uk too
I'm not sure what engine provides 120bhp. The 115 bhp 1600 K is fine. The 140 Roadsport you are talking about sounds like either a Supersport without catalyst or a VVC - I don't know which. I take it you have a choice of 5 or 6 speed cars, rather than paying for a gearbox swap?
Pricewise, anything with a 6 speed is going to top £11k (although you can find 1400 Supersport 6 speeds for as low as £8600). Dealers always charge more than private sales of course - check out www.blatchat.com for more cars and findit.co.uk too
Yep my bad its not 120 its 115bhp power output for the model below the 140.
And yes its a choice on the 5 or 6 speed gearbox from new. However the prices you quoted must be for car a lot older as with the 6 speed and essential extras am looking at £22650
That begs another question should I hold out for a secondhand 7?. There is very few out there I was told. Would still like to think a new 7 would hold its value well after a couple of years?
And yes its a choice on the 5 or 6 speed gearbox from new. However the prices you quoted must be for car a lot older as with the 6 speed and essential extras am looking at £22650
That begs another question should I hold out for a secondhand 7?. There is very few out there I was told. Would still like to think a new 7 would hold its value well after a couple of years?
Oh sorry, you're buying a new car - not clear from you posting.
Dino - I could've sworn Jan Thompson told me his old VVC was 140 bhp and not 150.
Frankly I'd buy an R300 if I was buying a new car - don't overspec it and it should come out at a decent price. Try one at Caterham South.
But then, for £22k I could find a nice SLR or barely used Superlight.
Dino - I could've sworn Jan Thompson told me his old VVC was 140 bhp and not 150.
Frankly I'd buy an R300 if I was buying a new car - don't overspec it and it should come out at a decent price. Try one at Caterham South.
But then, for £22k I could find a nice SLR or barely used Superlight.
you could fit the 6speed and go for the other diff i think?
i don't think caterham promote this much, but seem to remember reading one build diary where a guy had done that to reduce revs at cruising speeds, but still be able to keep it on the boil.
dunno the different ratios i'm afraid, you'll have to do the search, but that idea seems to have stuck in my head, so must have come from somewhere!
nice choices to make - hope you get the car you want.
i don't think caterham promote this much, but seem to remember reading one build diary where a guy had done that to reduce revs at cruising speeds, but still be able to keep it on the boil.
dunno the different ratios i'm afraid, you'll have to do the search, but that idea seems to have stuck in my head, so must have come from somewhere!
nice choices to make - hope you get the car you want.
That's pretty much the spec I have on my SV. It's fantastic. If you are going for a new 7, then the price difference between a 140 (+ options) and an R300 is pretty minimal. Bearing in mind the options you get with the R300. (And as I understand it and anti-cavitation (Apollo) tank is pretty much essential if you plan on taking a 7 on track)
On longer trips (especially m'ways) a longer top gear would be nice, but I try and avoid motorways as it's wasted mileage
I'm based in Bristol, so if you want to go out for a blat give me a mail through my profile.
On longer trips (especially m'ways) a longer top gear would be nice, but I try and avoid motorways as it's wasted mileage
I'm based in Bristol, so if you want to go out for a blat give me a mail through my profile.
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