Help! I'm completely confused about NOIP?
Discussion
Hi, hope somebody out there can help me out.
I was caught for speeding 14 days ago and pulled in by the cops. They warned me that this would go to court and handed me a piece of paper recording the offences.
On the form they ticked the NOIP box yes. Has NOIP been served on me? Or must they send a written NOIP document to me in the post?
Thanks in advance for your help!
I was caught for speeding 14 days ago and pulled in by the cops. They warned me that this would go to court and handed me a piece of paper recording the offences.
On the form they ticked the NOIP box yes. Has NOIP been served on me? Or must they send a written NOIP document to me in the post?
Thanks in advance for your help!
On being stopped and reported did not BiB say something like "you will be reported for the consideration of the question of prosecution for exceeding a speed limit"
If he did then that is a verbal warning at the time and takes the place of a written warning which is sent when offenders are not stopped. Law complied with.
Also re=check the form you got to confirm whether or not there are written words as mentioned first para above. If so this then can also take the place of a written warning. Law complied with.
DVD
If he did then that is a verbal warning at the time and takes the place of a written warning which is sent when offenders are not stopped. Law complied with.
Also re=check the form you got to confirm whether or not there are written words as mentioned first para above. If so this then can also take the place of a written warning. Law complied with.
DVD
thanks for your advice there.
Yes unfortunately just as you said.
"I hereby notify you that proceedings may be instituted agaist you etc. etc."
Is there any time limit on them for announcement of court date etc.?
Let me also explain full event if you don't mind?!
I was caught using VASCO for doing 87.7 mph in 60mph.
When they were catching up with me they inferred that I must have crossed over double white lines to have ended up in-front of the lorry. They did not see me commit this offence but inferred that they had stopped the lorry and got a statement. Whether he gave this statement to them I don't know?
Any advice on double white problem?
P.S. You probably think that I'm an idiot for crossing the double white (which I am) but the road was clear for 1/2 mile ahead and no cars were in front or behind me and the lorry was going 30mph.
Do you think they'll be able to prove double white in court? I admitted offence at the time but I think I was confused by their harsh manner.
Yes unfortunately just as you said.
"I hereby notify you that proceedings may be instituted agaist you etc. etc."
Is there any time limit on them for announcement of court date etc.?
Let me also explain full event if you don't mind?!
I was caught using VASCO for doing 87.7 mph in 60mph.
When they were catching up with me they inferred that I must have crossed over double white lines to have ended up in-front of the lorry. They did not see me commit this offence but inferred that they had stopped the lorry and got a statement. Whether he gave this statement to them I don't know?
Any advice on double white problem?
P.S. You probably think that I'm an idiot for crossing the double white (which I am) but the road was clear for 1/2 mile ahead and no cars were in front or behind me and the lorry was going 30mph.
Do you think they'll be able to prove double white in court? I admitted offence at the time but I think I was confused by their harsh manner.
How long did it take them to catch you up?
Would they have had time to stop the lorry somewhere safely and question the driver? or would they have been more concerned that if they did that , they would not be able to catch you up after?
Was it the A303 in Somerset?
Did you pass any lay-bys where lorry drivers pull in politely to let you pass?
Would they have had time to stop the lorry somewhere safely and question the driver? or would they have been more concerned that if they did that , they would not be able to catch you up after?
Was it the A303 in Somerset?
Did you pass any lay-bys where lorry drivers pull in politely to let you pass?
wizard80 said:
Any advice on double white problem?
Was it preceded by at least one throwback arrow, or a traffic island? If not, it is non-prsecribed and that is a defence.
cptsideways said:
Sure the lorry was not indiating left?
That is not a defence.
>> Edited by jeffreyarcher on Thursday 10th June 00:24
So Wizard just what were you booked for?
Speeding alone? - requires NOIP
Fail to conform to DWL? - requires NOIP
Both.
Post confusing as if evidence obtained for speeding by Vascar and before being stopped they departed into stopping a lorry and getting a statement, chasing after you and catching up, then a verbal NOIP for speeding is questionable as you can bring in the fact that it was not at the time. Unless of course, similar wording on the ticked slip of paper.
DVD
Speeding alone? - requires NOIP
Fail to conform to DWL? - requires NOIP
Both.
Post confusing as if evidence obtained for speeding by Vascar and before being stopped they departed into stopping a lorry and getting a statement, chasing after you and catching up, then a verbal NOIP for speeding is questionable as you can bring in the fact that it was not at the time. Unless of course, similar wording on the ticked slip of paper.
DVD
Thanks for all your useful coments and advise.
Cptsideways - Arrh now your point about councils putting in no overtaking lines in left right and centre is indeed a valid one. Up until 2 years ago the stretch of the alledged offence had dotted solid lines. I wonder if the council went through the proper procedure to put these Double whites in place and how this could be checked? You can still see to this day some left over signs of the dotted dashed!
deeps - I reckon it took them a couple of minutes to catch up with me. Lets me explain in more detail the event. The road I was driving on was completely straight 2-way single lanes opening up to dual lanes my side up a steep hill. It was somewhere on this straight single lane road or dual lane road that they clocked my speed.
The dual lane finished at the brow of the hill. Then coming down the other side I had a single lane and the other side of the road had the dual lane (follow?). It was on this stretched that they couldn't see how I could have ended up in front of the lorry. Although not sure whether they would be able to disprove the fact that I overtook the lorry on the hill in court?
Did not pass any laybys. What they did is this - they let one of the BiB get out of the car on the main road and flag the lorry down (didn't see this as I turned into side road) but presume that they did cause the other one walked to the police car about 10 minutes after.
jeffreyarcher - Yes it was proceeeded by throwback arrow at brow of hill as explained above. In the confusion I admitted to the double white line offense but think I was shaken up from being caught for speeding - or perhaps I never said this?
dwight vandriver - I was booked for speeding, and failing to conform to DWL. The officer said in my advantage was the fact that the condition were perfect, it was a clear road, and my driving wasn't dangerous - it's a stupid world?!
Both offenses are detailed at the bottom of the NOIP.
All further coments gladly received. What do you all reckon my best course of action is, and what I can expect to receive?
Cptsideways - Arrh now your point about councils putting in no overtaking lines in left right and centre is indeed a valid one. Up until 2 years ago the stretch of the alledged offence had dotted solid lines. I wonder if the council went through the proper procedure to put these Double whites in place and how this could be checked? You can still see to this day some left over signs of the dotted dashed!
deeps - I reckon it took them a couple of minutes to catch up with me. Lets me explain in more detail the event. The road I was driving on was completely straight 2-way single lanes opening up to dual lanes my side up a steep hill. It was somewhere on this straight single lane road or dual lane road that they clocked my speed.
The dual lane finished at the brow of the hill. Then coming down the other side I had a single lane and the other side of the road had the dual lane (follow?). It was on this stretched that they couldn't see how I could have ended up in front of the lorry. Although not sure whether they would be able to disprove the fact that I overtook the lorry on the hill in court?
Did not pass any laybys. What they did is this - they let one of the BiB get out of the car on the main road and flag the lorry down (didn't see this as I turned into side road) but presume that they did cause the other one walked to the police car about 10 minutes after.
jeffreyarcher - Yes it was proceeeded by throwback arrow at brow of hill as explained above. In the confusion I admitted to the double white line offense but think I was shaken up from being caught for speeding - or perhaps I never said this?
dwight vandriver - I was booked for speeding, and failing to conform to DWL. The officer said in my advantage was the fact that the condition were perfect, it was a clear road, and my driving wasn't dangerous - it's a stupid world?!
Both offenses are detailed at the bottom of the NOIP.
All further coments gladly received. What do you all reckon my best course of action is, and what I can expect to receive?
There are certain defences for crossing solid white lines. Ovewrtaking a moving lorry is not one of them however slowly it happens to be moving!
You will have been reported for the offences. One Verbal NIP will cover both situations. You do not need to be given two seperate NIp's for two seperate offences.
" I am reporting you for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for (verbal NOIP) exceeding the limit and failing to comply with a traffic sign Caution" is what I would have said. This will cover both offences.
In the case of the lorry driver, you will have to hope that he is not a local driver and will be put to considerable inconvenience to attend court should you go not guilty if he lives hundreds of miles away.
If they indeed have taken his details and a witness statement, then you will have to try your luck on a not guilty when the summons arrives and hope the lorry driver is too busy to attend! If he does, I think you will be convicted.
Overtaking on solid white lines is stupid even if you can see to do so!
What can I expect?
1. A summons for both offences and maybe a due care if they think that appropriate as well!
2. A visit to the magistrates court either to plead guilty or not guilty depending on whether you are or not (a matter for your conscience
).
3. If guilty to both offences, a means related fine for both and points (both are endorsable). I would expect you could be looking at a ball park figure of around £200-£250 which may or may not include costs depending on your plea and up to 6 points.
At a guess I would say about £200 in total costs and fines and 4 or 5 points!
>> Edited by gone on Thursday 10th June 12:42
You will have been reported for the offences. One Verbal NIP will cover both situations. You do not need to be given two seperate NIp's for two seperate offences.
" I am reporting you for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for (verbal NOIP) exceeding the limit and failing to comply with a traffic sign Caution" is what I would have said. This will cover both offences.
In the case of the lorry driver, you will have to hope that he is not a local driver and will be put to considerable inconvenience to attend court should you go not guilty if he lives hundreds of miles away.
If they indeed have taken his details and a witness statement, then you will have to try your luck on a not guilty when the summons arrives and hope the lorry driver is too busy to attend! If he does, I think you will be convicted.
Overtaking on solid white lines is stupid even if you can see to do so!
What can I expect?
1. A summons for both offences and maybe a due care if they think that appropriate as well!
2. A visit to the magistrates court either to plead guilty or not guilty depending on whether you are or not (a matter for your conscience
). 3. If guilty to both offences, a means related fine for both and points (both are endorsable). I would expect you could be looking at a ball park figure of around £200-£250 which may or may not include costs depending on your plea and up to 6 points.
At a guess I would say about £200 in total costs and fines and 4 or 5 points!
>> Edited by gone on Thursday 10th June 12:42
Sorry W cannot come up with any elastic in your problem. Looks as if the nail is well and truly in.
But, if you have a Citizens Advice Bureau near where you live, call in and enquire about their Duty Solicitor Scheme. Some do offer this FREE service for you to run your problem past a qualified Solicitor and see what he makes of it.
DVD
But, if you have a Citizens Advice Bureau near where you live, call in and enquire about their Duty Solicitor Scheme. Some do offer this FREE service for you to run your problem past a qualified Solicitor and see what he makes of it.
DVD
gone said:
Overtaking on solid white lines is stupid even if you can see to do so!
Up until recently that has always been the case, but many councils seem to have new rules about where they are applied. I am aware of several main A routes through Northamptonshire where blanket doubles have been applied, for miles & miles, for no apparent reason except they have been enforcing outdated HGV limits which has led to an increas in the number of badly educated drivers getting it wrong.
This alone is going to make an ass of the current law & system that has been in place for nearly 50 years.
I don't condone ignoring them, but when an international system of road signage is being mucked about with by local do gooders who can't drive for toffee it makes a mockery of the system.
>> Edited by cptsideways on Thursday 10th June 13:45
okay okay I know the double white was stupid, and you'll have to take my word that it was out of character. All I can assure you of is that it was a safe overtake. I guess similar to going through a red light when you can clearly see that no traffic is coming - against the law but not unsafe.
JohnL said:
Overtaking on solid white lines is stupid even if you can see to do so!
At the risk of embarrassing myself - why?
Because generally they are placed in order to protect from the potential of collisions due to limited views or other local conditions which the driver is either unaware or has no conception of.
They are not just painted on a whim by someone who thinks that they should start here and end there!
Most solid lines do not continue for too long before there are opportunities to pass.
If you are not on the ball or you do not have the skills to pass when these places arrive or there is something coming the other way when they do, you just have to sit tight and wait for a better place to pass.
That is not in a solid white section regardless of the fact that YOU [erceive it is clear.
I lost a very good friend some years ago who was a Police advanced motorcyclist instructor by someone doing exactly that (overtaing because it appeared to be clear
) He was on a police bike as well when it happened.
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