4 wheel steering - whats the deelio?

[cheadle hulme]

Just bought a Renault Laguna GT, one of the few cars available with 4WS. I remember back in the day that the Honda prelude had it??

It is brilliant.

Parking is tight, swivels into spaces like a supermini.

High speed lane changes are ace; you can change lanes at 70mph without hitting a cats eye.

Best of all though, a big FWD diesel corners like a good 'un. No detectable understeer at "pushing it" speeds. Tracks a nice neutral line even in wet bends and feels very planted. Very confidence inspiring.

Anyway, the point of my post is to understand what the disadvantages are?

Clearly cost and mechanical complexity, but what else?

If it wasnt for the vague steering feel, I would say it handled better than my Z4. Actually, it does handle better than my old Z4.

[EDLT]

Like any extra tech the only thing wrong with it is the potential to break. A few FWD cars have passive rear wheel steering anyway.

[Perd Hapley]

Went and watched a few videos on Youtube and now I want one of these four wheel steering Lagunas. THANKS A LOT FOR MAKING ME WANT LAGUNAS

Look how cool though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQQdL_wJMR0&fea...

[Zwoelf]

cheadle hulme said:

Just bought a Renault Laguna GT, one of the few cars available with 4WS. I remember back in the day that the Honda prelude had it??

It is brilliant.

As did the BMW 8 Series - or a variant of it, snappily titled Active Rear Axle Kinematics or somesuch.

[Mini1275]

Perd Hapley said:

Went and watched a few videos on Youtube and now I want one of these four wheel steering Lagunas. THANKS A LOT FOR MAKING ME WANT LAGUNAS

Look how cool though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQQdL_wJMR0&fea...

I'm not sure I'd like a Renault with that technology quite yet...


The Laguna's a cracking looking car though.

[Mr Happy]

I wonder if you can mess with the control electronics to make it 'crab' (ie turn both sets of wheels the same way) for sts and giggles...

I admit, if I saw one of them infront of me with the back wheels doing their own thing, I'd think they were about to fall off and back right off just in case!

Also isn't it almost the same as the Nissan HICAS system? I seem to remember Pug 306s having some kind of setup on the back of them too, only passive though (either that or just how easy they were to provoke into LOOS makes people think they had passive rear steer!)

[BlueMR2]

It's a bit of a bh when trying to parallel park.

[cheadle hulme]

Perd Hapley said:

Went and watched a few videos on Youtube and now I want one of these four wheel steering Lagunas. THANKS A LOT FOR MAKING ME WANT LAGUNAS

Look how cool though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQQdL_wJMR0&fea...

Jeez, I didnt realise it moved that much! It is very cool. Its marketed as a safety thing, but it just makes me corner a big french barge around corners like a sports car.

[MX7]

It's a great idea, but you have to ask why it isn't mainstream yet.

[cheadle hulme]

BlueMR2 said:

It's a bit of a bh when trying to parallel park.

Yup,found out that today. Very easy to reverse into bays and stuff, but oversteers like mad when parallel parking.

Looks a bit like an Aston too

[Perd Hapley]

Mini1275 said:

'm not sure I'd like a Renault with that technology quite yet...


The Laguna's a cracking looking car though.

Tell me about it, my dad had a Laguna II which ran up an impressive list of faults over five years. Now I find myself looking at prices for ones with electrically controlled rear wheel steering. I predict:

[Zwoelf]

cheadle hulme said:

oversteers like mad when parallel parking.

Awesome.

[EDLT]

Mr Happy said:

I wonder if you can mess with the control electronics to make it 'crab' (ie turn both sets of wheels the same way) for sts and giggles...

I admit, if I saw one of them infront of me with the back wheels doing their own thing, I'd think they were about to fall off and back right off just in case!

Also isn't it almost the same as the Nissan HICAS system? I seem to remember Pug 306s having some kind of setup on the back of them too, only passive though (either that or just how easy they were to provoke into LOOS makes people think they had passive rear steer!)

I think the Prelude already did that, at high speeds the rear wheels would turn in the same direction as the fronts to aide stability. The Corrado had a passive rear steering set up too.

Quadrasteer would be fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzX205dREng&fea...

[cheadle hulme]

MX7 said:

It's a great idea, but you have to ask why it isn't mainstream yet.

Hence my post dude!

[BlueMR2]

cheadle hulme said:

BlueMR2 said:

It's a bit of a bh when trying to parallel park.

Yup,found out that today. Very easy to reverse into bays and stuff, but oversteers like mad when parallel parking.

Looks a bit like an Aston too

The problem is you pull the front in nice and tight, then realise the back end is a foot out as the rear wheels turned out, so you have to make sure you don't fully wind on the lock to stop the rear wheels turning.

[cheadle hulme]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTnd3ozcaE&fea...

This is the thing I'm talking about; why not more mainstream?

[EDLT]

cheadle hulme said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTnd3ozcaE&fea...

This is the thing I'm talking about; why not more mainstream?

No demand for it, and I guess its quite difficult to sell to none car-nerds. Quite a lot of people associate rock hard suspension with 'sportiness', nobody will measure their Laguna through a slalom speed trap against other cars to see which one is actually quicker so being able to feel the paint on the road is enough to tell them their car can go round corners really fast (even though they will never do it).

Also, odd choice of camera car at 1.20.

[Beyond Rational]

cheadle hulme said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTnd3ozcaE&fea...

This is the thing I'm talking about; why not more mainstream?

The Laguna appears to knock over a cone in the middle section...

[BlueMR2]

EDLT said:

cheadle hulme said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTnd3ozcaE&fea...

This is the thing I'm talking about; why not more mainstream?

No demand for it, and I guess its quite difficult to sell to none car-nerds. Quite a lot of people associate rock hard suspension with 'sportiness', nobody will measure their Laguna through a slalom speed trap against other cars to see which one is actually quicker so being able to feel the paint on the road is enough to tell them their car can go round corners really fast (even though they will never do it).

Also, odd choice of camera car at 1.20.

They obviously needed a powerful car, with excellent handling, that could out handle both cars in the video.

An 80's supercar was the only choice, 928's ftw.

[nickythesaint]

4th and 5th gen Honda prelude used to have AWS.


Production cars with active four wheel steering

BMW 850CSi (optional)
BMW 7-Series (2009 onwards, part of sport package) [3]
Chevrolet Silverado (2002–2005) (high and low speed)
Efini MS-9 (high and low speed)
GMC Sierra (2002–2005) (high and low speed)
GMC Sierra Denali (2002–2004) (high and low speed)
Honda Prelude (high and low speed, mechanical from 1987 to 1991, computerized from 1992–2001)
Honda Accord (1991) (high and low speed, mechanical)
Honda Ascot Innova (1992) (high and low speed, computerized from 1992-1996)
Infiniti FX50 AWD (option on Sports package) (2008–Present) (high and low speed, fully electronic)
Infiniti G35 Sedan (option on Sport models) (2007–Present) (high speed only?)
Infiniti G35 Coupe (option on Sport models) (2006–Present) (high speed only) [4]
Infiniti G37
Infiniti J30t (touring package) (1993–1994)
Infiniti M35 (option on Sport models) (2006–Present) (high speed only?)
Infiniti M45 (option on Sport models) (2006–Present) (high speed only?)
Infiniti Q45t (1989–1994) (high speed only?)
Mazda 929 (1992–1995)(computerised, high and low speed)(all models)
Mazda 626 (1988) (high and low speed)
Mazda MX-6 (1989–1997) (high and low speed)
Mazda RX-7 (optional, computerized, high and low speed)
Mazda Eunos 800 (1996–2003) (Optional, computerized, high and low speed)
Mitsubishi Galant/Sigma (high speed only)
Mitsubishi GTO (also sold as the Mitsubishi 3000GT and the Dodge Stealth) (Mechanical) (high speed only)
Nissan Cefiro (A31) (high speed only)
Nissan 240SX/Silvia (option on SE models) (high speed only)
Nissan 300ZX (all Twin-Turbo Z32 models) (high speed only)
Nissan Laurel (later versions) (high speed only)
Nissan Fuga/Infiniti M (high speed only)
Nissan Silvia (option on all S13 models) (high speed only)
Nissan Skyline GTS, GTS-R, GTS-X (1986) (high speed only)
Nissan Skyline GT-R (high and low speed)
Renault Laguna (only in GT version of 3rd generation which was launched October 2007, GT launched on April 2008)
Subaru Alcyone SVX JDM (1991–1996) (Japanese version: "L-CDX" only) (high speed only)
Toyota Aristo (1997) (high and low speed?)
Toyota Camry / Vista JDM 1988-1999 (Optional) [5]
Toyota Celica (option on 5th and 6th generation, 1990-1993 ST183 and 1994-1997 ST203) (Dual-mode, high and low speed)
Toyota Soarer (UZZ32)



EDIT: to say I nicked this from Wiki, I don't in fact have a fantastic memory.

Edited by nickythesaint on Monday 5th September 15:13