Scottish Conservative Party set to disband.
Discussion
Some would say they've effectively been in a coma since '97 anyway, nevertheless it's an interesting development.
BBC said:
The frontrunner for leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said he plans to disband the party if he wins the leadership election next month.
The MSP Murdo Fraser says the Conservatives carry too much baggage in Scotland and claims a new centre-right party would attract more voters.
The party would sit with the Tories in the Commons but have its own policies.
Mr Fraser said David Cameron was aware and the idea had the support of several senior Conservatives at Westminster.
He told the BBC: "What we have to do is get many more people elected from Scottish constituencies to support David Cameron and a future UK Conservative government and the best way to do that is to create a new progressive centre-right with a Scottish identity."
He added: "I think that will be much more attractive to many people in Scotland who share our values."
Leadership pitch
The Conservatives have failed to revive their fortunes in Scotland since the 1997 general election, which saw them lose all 11 of their Westminster seats.
At last year's election, they only managed to retain one MP, David Mundell in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale.
Mr Fraser says the party has been in continual decline in Scotland since the 1960s and the best option was to create a new party.
But he can expect some opposition with the former Secretary of State for Scotland, Lord Forsyth, calling the plan a "ludicrous idea" which amounts to raising the white flag in the face of opposition from the SNP.
Mr Fraser says his campaign slogan in the Scottish Conservatives leadership race was a "new party for Scotland".
Click to play
MSP Murdo Fraser: "This is a return to the position we had pre-1965"
"This is the central plank of my leadership pitch," he said.
"And what I'll be saying effectively is there is a lot of interest in centre-right values amongst people in Scotland but they don't vote for the Conservative Party."
The former Tory Scottish Secretary, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, described Mr Fraser's plans as "healthy" and "refreshing" and said his ideas should be given "serious consideration".
He said: "What is very, very healthy is that Murdo Fraser is not just raising this after he has been elected. He is saying if you want me as your leader this is the kind of way in which I wish to lead the centre-right cause in Scotland.
"He is saying this is not about one individual, this is an opportunity for the people who are Conservatives in Scotland to decide what is the future of the union and of centre-right politics.
"He is offering a very refreshing new start."
'Political revival'
Scotland's only Conservative MP at Westminster, David Mundell, said he welcomed debate and discussion but would "take a very great deal of convincing" that Mr Fraser's ideas would help the party.
He said: "I think fundamentally changing the party name is a rather simplistic approach to the issues that we face.
"It is much more fundamental than that.
"It is about having a whole package of things that appeal to the electorate from policies, to the work that we do on the ground, to our approach in government."
Asked about the plan, UK Education Secretary Michael Gove - who was born and brought up in Scotland - said the Scottish Conservatives should be allowed to "choose their own destiny".
"It is a decision for the Scottish Conservative Party what its future should be," he told BBC One's Andrew Marr programme.
"It would be wrong for me to poke in and say 'I am your fairy godfather and this is the name I am bestowing on you."
He denied the idea was merely an attempt at "rebranding" but a sign of a "revival, political and intellectually" of the centre-right in Scotland.
"I think we should welcome the fact it is the Conservatives north of the border where the action is."
Jackson Carlaw, a West of Scotland list MSP, launched his campaign to be the next leader of the Scottish Conservatives on Friday.
Ruth Davidson, the newly elected list MSP for Glasgow, is also expected to join the contest this week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14780207The MSP Murdo Fraser says the Conservatives carry too much baggage in Scotland and claims a new centre-right party would attract more voters.
The party would sit with the Tories in the Commons but have its own policies.
Mr Fraser said David Cameron was aware and the idea had the support of several senior Conservatives at Westminster.
He told the BBC: "What we have to do is get many more people elected from Scottish constituencies to support David Cameron and a future UK Conservative government and the best way to do that is to create a new progressive centre-right with a Scottish identity."
He added: "I think that will be much more attractive to many people in Scotland who share our values."
Leadership pitch
The Conservatives have failed to revive their fortunes in Scotland since the 1997 general election, which saw them lose all 11 of their Westminster seats.
At last year's election, they only managed to retain one MP, David Mundell in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale.
Mr Fraser says the party has been in continual decline in Scotland since the 1960s and the best option was to create a new party.
But he can expect some opposition with the former Secretary of State for Scotland, Lord Forsyth, calling the plan a "ludicrous idea" which amounts to raising the white flag in the face of opposition from the SNP.
Mr Fraser says his campaign slogan in the Scottish Conservatives leadership race was a "new party for Scotland".
Click to play
MSP Murdo Fraser: "This is a return to the position we had pre-1965"
"This is the central plank of my leadership pitch," he said.
"And what I'll be saying effectively is there is a lot of interest in centre-right values amongst people in Scotland but they don't vote for the Conservative Party."
The former Tory Scottish Secretary, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, described Mr Fraser's plans as "healthy" and "refreshing" and said his ideas should be given "serious consideration".
He said: "What is very, very healthy is that Murdo Fraser is not just raising this after he has been elected. He is saying if you want me as your leader this is the kind of way in which I wish to lead the centre-right cause in Scotland.
"He is saying this is not about one individual, this is an opportunity for the people who are Conservatives in Scotland to decide what is the future of the union and of centre-right politics.
"He is offering a very refreshing new start."
'Political revival'
Scotland's only Conservative MP at Westminster, David Mundell, said he welcomed debate and discussion but would "take a very great deal of convincing" that Mr Fraser's ideas would help the party.
He said: "I think fundamentally changing the party name is a rather simplistic approach to the issues that we face.
"It is much more fundamental than that.
"It is about having a whole package of things that appeal to the electorate from policies, to the work that we do on the ground, to our approach in government."
Asked about the plan, UK Education Secretary Michael Gove - who was born and brought up in Scotland - said the Scottish Conservatives should be allowed to "choose their own destiny".
"It is a decision for the Scottish Conservative Party what its future should be," he told BBC One's Andrew Marr programme.
"It would be wrong for me to poke in and say 'I am your fairy godfather and this is the name I am bestowing on you."
He denied the idea was merely an attempt at "rebranding" but a sign of a "revival, political and intellectually" of the centre-right in Scotland.
"I think we should welcome the fact it is the Conservatives north of the border where the action is."
Jackson Carlaw, a West of Scotland list MSP, launched his campaign to be the next leader of the Scottish Conservatives on Friday.
Ruth Davidson, the newly elected list MSP for Glasgow, is also expected to join the contest this week.
The Scottish Tories are effectively saying 'people don't trust us because of our association with London so we'll lose the name, re-brand and just go into coalition with the very same people who the electorate north of the border detested to begin with'.
Do they think the Scottish voters are stupid enough to buy this (please don't answer that).
Do they think the Scottish voters are stupid enough to buy this (please don't answer that).
Would much prefer the Scottish conservatives to stick around as a repository (sorry , couldn't resist it) for all the loony unelectables and as a suitable the chip-on-the-shoulder target for all our hate filled stalinists.
That might then allow a new centre-right party to emerge, without baggage, that could start to kick some sense into the Scottish political system.
That might then allow a new centre-right party to emerge, without baggage, that could start to kick some sense into the Scottish political system.
Strange and sad though it seems, it's going to work.
In the o-so-wacky world of Scottish people who actually give a damn about politics and don't just avoid anything to do with politics/politicians like they avoid stepping in shyte there is an enormous number who make that bizarre association of 'anything tory=Thatcher=demon=antiScotland=I wont vote for it EVER EVER again'. Thatcher and Hitler really are synonymous to many people, and I don't think the SNP would get many votes if they called themselves National Socialists or The Nazi Party. Because Nazi = Hitler and Tory = Thatcher.
I never really completely understand why Tories revere Thatcher so much, given the damage she did to the party's electability. But in truth there are a huge number of centre-rightists in Scotland and if something not Tory/Conservative/Thatcher emerges I think if it can compete on ability (not hard) it'll do quite well. Of course if it literally really IS the discredited 'tories with a new dress' merely rebranding, like Glasgow Corporation does every few years, then as soon as it's exposed everyone'll groan and go back to square one again.
I like the independents. Especially the comical ones. Dunno about you, but I really can't be bothered watching X factor, EXCEPT for the initial auditions. Not the hysterical and talentless ones they endorse. The ones they reject. Some of them are HILARIOUS! Real roflmao stuff!! The best of the best of the best were two big fat dog ugly aggressive sisters who'd actually been on the thing before! That Cowell barstward KNOWS people find those acts hugely entertaining, and knew that was a classic one, and that's how they got to entertain me twice!!
Well. I'd like politicians like that! Entertaining ones. The serious ones (like the X Factor 'winners') don't really do it for me. Gordon Brown was entertaining. Bonkers. Centre rightist. Useless!! Not as useless as Alistair Darling, or nearly as sly as Tony Blair, but far madder. FAR madder. That's what we really need. Because, given time, Gordon would have led this country into World War 3, and the rebuilding job following it, especially with the post nuclear decrease in population, would have solved all these economic problems for centuries! Prudent?? Genius more like!
Silly centre rightists. Doing silly things like the Edinburgh Tram fiasco all the time, or coating the country in these pointless monster windmills. Except not expensive things. They shouldn't be given any money at all. Not a penny.
They should call themselves, quite simply, The Scottish Party. Not Scottish Labour, tory or nationalist, just plain and simply 'The Scottish Party'. Looking for votes from Scottish people who support Scotland and scottish values. (Fecks sake, I'm not bad at this, am I)?
In the o-so-wacky world of Scottish people who actually give a damn about politics and don't just avoid anything to do with politics/politicians like they avoid stepping in shyte there is an enormous number who make that bizarre association of 'anything tory=Thatcher=demon=antiScotland=I wont vote for it EVER EVER again'. Thatcher and Hitler really are synonymous to many people, and I don't think the SNP would get many votes if they called themselves National Socialists or The Nazi Party. Because Nazi = Hitler and Tory = Thatcher.
I never really completely understand why Tories revere Thatcher so much, given the damage she did to the party's electability. But in truth there are a huge number of centre-rightists in Scotland and if something not Tory/Conservative/Thatcher emerges I think if it can compete on ability (not hard) it'll do quite well. Of course if it literally really IS the discredited 'tories with a new dress' merely rebranding, like Glasgow Corporation does every few years, then as soon as it's exposed everyone'll groan and go back to square one again.
I like the independents. Especially the comical ones. Dunno about you, but I really can't be bothered watching X factor, EXCEPT for the initial auditions. Not the hysterical and talentless ones they endorse. The ones they reject. Some of them are HILARIOUS! Real roflmao stuff!! The best of the best of the best were two big fat dog ugly aggressive sisters who'd actually been on the thing before! That Cowell barstward KNOWS people find those acts hugely entertaining, and knew that was a classic one, and that's how they got to entertain me twice!!
Well. I'd like politicians like that! Entertaining ones. The serious ones (like the X Factor 'winners') don't really do it for me. Gordon Brown was entertaining. Bonkers. Centre rightist. Useless!! Not as useless as Alistair Darling, or nearly as sly as Tony Blair, but far madder. FAR madder. That's what we really need. Because, given time, Gordon would have led this country into World War 3, and the rebuilding job following it, especially with the post nuclear decrease in population, would have solved all these economic problems for centuries! Prudent?? Genius more like!
Silly centre rightists. Doing silly things like the Edinburgh Tram fiasco all the time, or coating the country in these pointless monster windmills. Except not expensive things. They shouldn't be given any money at all. Not a penny.
They should call themselves, quite simply, The Scottish Party. Not Scottish Labour, tory or nationalist, just plain and simply 'The Scottish Party'. Looking for votes from Scottish people who support Scotland and scottish values. (Fecks sake, I'm not bad at this, am I)?
turbobloke said:
Rebranding exercise? Camoron will love it. Superficial, meaningless but great PR. Right up his shallow street.
Apparently CMD is "neutral" on the matter... now there's a surprise. 
Presumably, the Scottish MP (singular) elected to Westminster for the new party will sit alongside his English Tory colleagues?
I don't think just changing the name away from Conservative/Tory would be enough to have the mass impact desired. Especially with all the rivals banging on and on about how it WAS just a rebranding, and trying to get the old Thatcher Devil Party thing going again. There would have to be a genuine distancing and certain policy deviation. And it's fair to say that it hasn't really worked for UKIP, has it? They're not much more than a crank party in terms of number of votes, are they?
I think the deicision is based on the inevitability of Scottish independence. Here's how I think they hope it will go:
Scotland becomes independent.
SNP keep spending like it grows on trees.
Scotland gets into debt.
Scots realise this and look for a party to cut spending that doesn't have 'tory' or 'Conservative' in the title for reasons of deeply entrenched political hatred based mainly on unwarranted dogma.
Tory Jocks get elected.
Nice plan, won't happen. Well, that last bit at least, the first bit is inevitable.
Scotland becomes independent.
SNP keep spending like it grows on trees.
Scotland gets into debt.
Scots realise this and look for a party to cut spending that doesn't have 'tory' or 'Conservative' in the title for reasons of deeply entrenched political hatred based mainly on unwarranted dogma.
Tory Jocks get elected.
Nice plan, won't happen. Well, that last bit at least, the first bit is inevitable.
I dunno caulk, there are a lot of people who have said just that. So they vote SNP 1st and will vote whatever else suits their views after independence.
SNP have been pissing money away to buy votes new labor style and everyone knows it. But if Salmond thinks he could keep that up post-independence he's in for a shock.
SNP have been pissing money away to buy votes new labor style and everyone knows it. But if Salmond thinks he could keep that up post-independence he's in for a shock.
JM said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I've always found it slightly odd; presumably there are right wing voters in Scotland, but who do they vote for?
Boundary changes account for several losses of Tory seats, I believe.Edit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/result...
Edited by Victor McDade on Monday 5th September 15:22
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