Public Pensions
Discussion
We all know that public pensions need reform.
This is the document that lays out those reform proposals.
http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/hutton_final_100311....
This is how it would affect myself.
"Recommendation 14: The key design features contained in this report should apply to all public
service pension schemes. The exception is in the case of the uniformed services where the
Normal Pension Age should be set to reflect the unique characteristics of the work involved.
The Government should therefore consider setting a new Normal Pension Age of 60 across
the uniformed services, where the Normal Pension Age is currently below this level in these
schemes, and keep this under regular review."
A 22 year engagement from the age of 18 would accrue an Immediate Pension at the age of 40 in the Armed Forces.
If I reached Sergeant my IP would be £10,500 from the age of 40. Under the new proposals I would potentially be £210,000 worse off when my IP would start at 60.
If I live to 85 I'm set to lose a 1/3 of my overall pension.
I have 30 years(to age 60) to make up the shortfall, is it possible? Any suggestions?
This is the document that lays out those reform proposals.
http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/hutton_final_100311....
This is how it would affect myself.
"Recommendation 14: The key design features contained in this report should apply to all public
service pension schemes. The exception is in the case of the uniformed services where the
Normal Pension Age should be set to reflect the unique characteristics of the work involved.
The Government should therefore consider setting a new Normal Pension Age of 60 across
the uniformed services, where the Normal Pension Age is currently below this level in these
schemes, and keep this under regular review."
A 22 year engagement from the age of 18 would accrue an Immediate Pension at the age of 40 in the Armed Forces.
If I reached Sergeant my IP would be £10,500 from the age of 40. Under the new proposals I would potentially be £210,000 worse off when my IP would start at 60.
If I live to 85 I'm set to lose a 1/3 of my overall pension.
I have 30 years(to age 60) to make up the shortfall, is it possible? Any suggestions?
You have to understand that our wonderful Prime Minister hasn't got the guts or inclination to deal with benefit thieves and the great unwashed. Consequently, he has gone for the easy option and attacked those who have absolutely no way to fight back. The Police and the Armed Forces are being raped by that vindictive t
t. You are just a number to him and there's nothing we can do about it.
t. You are just a number to him and there's nothing we can do about it. 
Elroy Blue said:
You have to understand that our wonderful Prime Minister hasn't got the guts or inclination to deal with benefit thieves and the great unwashed. Consequently, he has gone for the easy option and attacked those who have absolutely no way to fight back. The Police and the Armed Forces are being raped by that vindictive tt. You are just a number to him and there's nothing we can do about it.
You've got guns and water cannon FFS!!t. You are just a number to him and there's nothing we can do about it. (But I agree with your sentiments).
What you need to remember is that if/when implemented these changes will only be applied from a future date and as such will not affect those already in the forces, working under AFPS 75 and 05. It will only be applied to new recruits, as to apply it retrospectively across the forces would require an Act of Parliament to change the existing terms and conditions of service and most likely result in a mass exodus of personnel.
When this number signed on the dotted line, it made a commitment and understood it would have to make sacrifices. Do you not think they have a morale obligation to honour?
When they make my friends and colleagues redundant and press on with the same operational tempo, and then fk about with the pensions they chip away the morale that underpins the Armed Forces.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4E9E2014-5CE6-43F2-...
If we have a look at fig 4 you'll see that in order to receive duty and commitment, the Government has to show fairness, terms and conditions of service, and support. If the public thinks this is fairness, then fair enough, I'll wind me neck in.
We'll show a can do attitude, work harder and smarter, because that's what we do. But their treading a fine line.
I dislike the fact that I've had to post on a public forum and 'whinge' as it comes across unprofessional, that wasn't my intention. It just makes me so bloody angry and I'd like to do something about it. If that means a private pension as well, I'm open to suggestions about how much I'd have to put away to make up the shortfall.
When they make my friends and colleagues redundant and press on with the same operational tempo, and then f
k about with the pensions they chip away the morale that underpins the Armed Forces. http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4E9E2014-5CE6-43F2-...
If we have a look at fig 4 you'll see that in order to receive duty and commitment, the Government has to show fairness, terms and conditions of service, and support. If the public thinks this is fairness, then fair enough, I'll wind me neck in.
We'll show a can do attitude, work harder and smarter, because that's what we do. But their treading a fine line.
I dislike the fact that I've had to post on a public forum and 'whinge' as it comes across unprofessional, that wasn't my intention. It just makes me so bloody angry and I'd like to do something about it. If that means a private pension as well, I'm open to suggestions about how much I'd have to put away to make up the shortfall.
I'd rather they did away with Public Pensions and put NI into a ringfenced fund for each contributor. At some point the massive debt will be apid, and it's obscenely bad financial management in the long run.
However, they should only come after people who work once they have sorted out the dole bludgers first, and of all the public servants, police, army etc should be the very last.
Scum in all colours of ties these days.
However, they should only come after people who work once they have sorted out the dole bludgers first, and of all the public servants, police, army etc should be the very last.
Scum in all colours of ties these days.
gca117 said:
What you need to remember is that if/when implemented these changes will only be applied from a future date and as such will not affect those already in the forces, working under AFPS 75 and 05. It will only be applied to new recruits, as to apply it retrospectively across the forces would require an Act of Parliament to change the existing terms and conditions of service and most likely result in a mass exodus of personnel.
I hope you're right.Their starting to tinker with legislation, spookyly enough coincides with the release of the public pension reforms report.
See :
The Armed Forces Pension Scheme 2005 (Amendment) Order 2011
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1364/artic...
Taking some time to decipher it all!
At some point I hope the general public are going to realise that there is a cost to the Benefits Society.
If the taxpayer is handing out £12000 a month to a Somalian Immigrant in the UK in London with six children and living in a six bedroom house in Chelsea the taxpayer cannot also maintain pensions, the Health Service, Education and all the other mechanisms of state.
Its a simple choice. Either we address this nonsense or the workers not on benefits will be facing dire straits. The Benefits claimants will be fine.
And as others have said Dave an Co will not face this. Misery for all beckons.
And our Politicians are comfortable with that.
If the taxpayer is handing out £12000 a month to a Somalian Immigrant in the UK in London with six children and living in a six bedroom house in Chelsea the taxpayer cannot also maintain pensions, the Health Service, Education and all the other mechanisms of state.
Its a simple choice. Either we address this nonsense or the workers not on benefits will be facing dire straits. The Benefits claimants will be fine.
And as others have said Dave an Co will not face this. Misery for all beckons.
And our Politicians are comfortable with that.
gca117 said:
What you need to remember is that if/when implemented these changes will only be applied from a future date and as such will not affect those already in the forces, working under AFPS 75 and 05. It will only be applied to new recruits, as to apply it retrospectively across the forces would require an Act of Parliament to change the existing terms and conditions of service and most likely result in a mass exodus of personnel.
I wouldn't count you chickens on that one.In the Police we've been told this will apply to everyone, not just new recruits. It's going to have massive implications and the sight of a load of 60 year old Officers chasing some 18 year old scrote should be a sight to see.
Cameron isn't bothered, he'll be collecting his massive pension by than.
Elroy Blue said:
gca117 said:
What you need to remember is that if/when implemented these changes will only be applied from a future date and as such will not affect those already in the forces, working under AFPS 75 and 05. It will only be applied to new recruits, as to apply it retrospectively across the forces would require an Act of Parliament to change the existing terms and conditions of service and most likely result in a mass exodus of personnel.
I wouldn't count you chickens on that one.In the Police we've been told this will apply to everyone, not just new recruits. It's going to have massive implications and the sight of a load of 60 year old Officers chasing some 18 year old scrote should be a sight to see.
Cameron isn't bothered, he'll be collecting his massive pension by than.
sidicks said:
TSCfree said:
If that means a private pension as well, I'm open to suggestions about how much I'd have to put away to make up the shortfall.
Absolutely fking loads (as a percentage of salary) - that's the problem!
Sidicks
If I'd have joined a private company as a licensed aircraft engineer and taken out a private pension scheme, I'm fairly sure I would not be looking at losing a 1/3 of it even in these dire times. <cynic mode> Still, I'm sure its helping with the redundancies.<cynic mode>
TSC,
I'm an IFA and I have a niche practice dealing solely with members of the RAF (I was on '75 for 22), so I see things from both sides of the wire. I have seen a marked increase in financial awareness with those I chat with about retirement planning. And thats not a bad thing.
Be grateful you're a young 'un. Due to various GMP rules, between 1948 and 1980 Service personnel did not pay the correct NI Contributions, with the net result that in many instances, mil pensioners approaching retirement age are seeing reductions in income of up to 10%. As a result, on reaching SRA, the AFPS pension of those who enlisted on or after 1 July 1949 is reduced by £0.8708 per annum for each complete year of reckonable Service between 30 June 1949 and 1 April 1980 (referred to as the NI Modification rules).
Post 2015 (when we can expect the new AFPS scheme to take effect), pension rights for those already in Service WILL be grandfathered (ie; previously earned rights will be ringfenced). The problem is going to be of course, you might have someone with a Final Salary Occupational pension 'plan' with benefits split right down the middle. You have lots of choices (personal pension, AVCs etc), but by far and away most service clients always make the same mistakes. They overlook the fact that (usually) a home making female partner/spouse will not have capitalised on their own pension benefits and that means that £7500 of tax free income per annum, with 20% tax relief up to (currently) contributions of £3600 is going begging.
So, there's a lot you can do. There is no point in crying over spilt milk because the entire public sector is in this mess. For my part, I was at Aki last week and I'm waiting for the Cyp banks to get sucked into the Greek default (there's a nice little place I've got my eye on.. ;-) ). So, do what SP always do best. Whinge like mad, kick the cat, the door, whatever.. grit their teeth and then get on with things. Good luck. If you need a steer, don't hesitate to drop me a line, or shout out here.
I'm an IFA and I have a niche practice dealing solely with members of the RAF (I was on '75 for 22), so I see things from both sides of the wire. I have seen a marked increase in financial awareness with those I chat with about retirement planning. And thats not a bad thing.
Be grateful you're a young 'un. Due to various GMP rules, between 1948 and 1980 Service personnel did not pay the correct NI Contributions, with the net result that in many instances, mil pensioners approaching retirement age are seeing reductions in income of up to 10%. As a result, on reaching SRA, the AFPS pension of those who enlisted on or after 1 July 1949 is reduced by £0.8708 per annum for each complete year of reckonable Service between 30 June 1949 and 1 April 1980 (referred to as the NI Modification rules).
Post 2015 (when we can expect the new AFPS scheme to take effect), pension rights for those already in Service WILL be grandfathered (ie; previously earned rights will be ringfenced). The problem is going to be of course, you might have someone with a Final Salary Occupational pension 'plan' with benefits split right down the middle. You have lots of choices (personal pension, AVCs etc), but by far and away most service clients always make the same mistakes. They overlook the fact that (usually) a home making female partner/spouse will not have capitalised on their own pension benefits and that means that £7500 of tax free income per annum, with 20% tax relief up to (currently) contributions of £3600 is going begging.
So, there's a lot you can do. There is no point in crying over spilt milk because the entire public sector is in this mess. For my part, I was at Aki last week and I'm waiting for the Cyp banks to get sucked into the Greek default (there's a nice little place I've got my eye on.. ;-) ). So, do what SP always do best. Whinge like mad, kick the cat, the door, whatever.. grit their teeth and then get on with things. Good luck. If you need a steer, don't hesitate to drop me a line, or shout out here.
OneDs said:
The last tupe transfer I did from public to private with the change from RPI to CPI brought the cost of the 60th scheme down from 34% to 28% of earnings and they are still in the black just.
'In the black'....??Costs are likely to increase due to longevity, and given an average contribution of around 10%, why should the taxpayer be funding the other 18%+...???
Sidicks
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