Rolling 30 year petition
Discussion
e-petition on Government website, Restore a rolling 30 year-old exemption to VED, for classic vehicles
This has probably been discused before, but lets all get behind it, the number of signatures so far is pathetic (6,021)
To promote a debate in Parliament it needs 100,000 signatures.
Lets get a snowball effect going, or do we only care about our only 'little corner'
This has probably been discused before, but lets all get behind it, the number of signatures so far is pathetic (6,021)
To promote a debate in Parliament it needs 100,000 signatures.
Lets get a snowball effect going, or do we only care about our only 'little corner'
Edited by cotswoldlad on Tuesday 6th September 08:29
Edited by cotswoldlad on Tuesday 6th September 08:31
Edited by cotswoldlad on Tuesday 6th September 20:47
100,000 signatures will not 'force' a debate in the Lords, it will merely cause one to be considered.
There have been petitions with tens of thousands of signatures submitted in 2007, 2008 and 2010, all of which have been met with similar responses.
When Labour were in power, the Tories said they would consider a rolling exemption, but when the coalition took over, they decided that, upon reflection, they probably wouldn't.
I'm not suggesting that everyone has now decided to roll over and not bother, but there are ways and means. The FBHVC lobbies regularly on this and any number of other matters, and has more of the Governemnt's ear than the rest of us, so getting behind them is perhaps a more effectvie thing to do.
The problem with e-petitions is that you get cockends like Mik Baines who started a petition calling for a "30 year rolling VED tax exemption - not for Allegros though..." This kind of tool (the perjorative sort, not the useful sort) belittles any attempt the likes of you or I may make to be taken seriously.
So direct your head-banging smilies at him, not the rest of us.
There have been petitions with tens of thousands of signatures submitted in 2007, 2008 and 2010, all of which have been met with similar responses.
When Labour were in power, the Tories said they would consider a rolling exemption, but when the coalition took over, they decided that, upon reflection, they probably wouldn't.
I'm not suggesting that everyone has now decided to roll over and not bother, but there are ways and means. The FBHVC lobbies regularly on this and any number of other matters, and has more of the Governemnt's ear than the rest of us, so getting behind them is perhaps a more effectvie thing to do.
The problem with e-petitions is that you get cockends like Mik Baines who started a petition calling for a "30 year rolling VED tax exemption - not for Allegros though..." This kind of tool (the perjorative sort, not the useful sort) belittles any attempt the likes of you or I may make to be taken seriously.
So direct your head-banging smilies at him, not the rest of us.
Head banging directed at how 'I' feel, not at others.
Plenty of good guys out there, thankfully, and agree with comments on 'allegro' type promos, they are a cry for self attention.
Unfortunately was not able to attend the 'drive it day' with the club this year as family illness took preference.
Plenty of good guys out there, thankfully, and agree with comments on 'allegro' type promos, they are a cry for self attention.
Unfortunately was not able to attend the 'drive it day' with the club this year as family illness took preference.
Here we go again - PLEASE STOP AND THINK BEFORE YOU SIGN A PETITION LIKE THIS.
If, and it's a VERY BIG IF, this were ever to be made law it would come with significant restrictions on vehicle use. So what you end up with is a saving of maybe a few hundred quid a year but a car that you will not be able to use when and where you want to. I know which I'd prefer. Think that unlikely? It's already being discussed in Brussels. Think about it, do you really believe that in these so called environmentally concerned times any government is going to let you drive around in an old car that is seen as 'dirty and polluting' and let you do it for FREE?
If, and it's a VERY BIG IF, this were ever to be made law it would come with significant restrictions on vehicle use. So what you end up with is a saving of maybe a few hundred quid a year but a car that you will not be able to use when and where you want to. I know which I'd prefer. Think that unlikely? It's already being discussed in Brussels. Think about it, do you really believe that in these so called environmentally concerned times any government is going to let you drive around in an old car that is seen as 'dirty and polluting' and let you do it for FREE?
It's never going to happen!.
Firstly the Government would lose too much revenue by re-introducing a rolling 30 year-old exemption to VED (which is the very reason a cut off date was introduced in the first place).
Secondly, the last thing the Government wants to be seen to be doing is encouraging people to hang on to old cars that are less fuel efficient and less environmentally friendly than a modern car.
The Government is already facing emission targets that they are failing to meet so having less efficient cars on the road is just going to set them back even further.
(No disrespect to all those who are running classic cars BTW, I love to see an old classic still being used, and yes I do know that there is a good argument in favour of running old cars when you take the whole life carbon footprint into account but the harsh reality is that the Government are not really interested in whole life footprints, they are more concerned with revenue and immediate emission targets, it's a sad fact of life).
Firstly the Government would lose too much revenue by re-introducing a rolling 30 year-old exemption to VED (which is the very reason a cut off date was introduced in the first place).
Secondly, the last thing the Government wants to be seen to be doing is encouraging people to hang on to old cars that are less fuel efficient and less environmentally friendly than a modern car.
The Government is already facing emission targets that they are failing to meet so having less efficient cars on the road is just going to set them back even further.
(No disrespect to all those who are running classic cars BTW, I love to see an old classic still being used, and yes I do know that there is a good argument in favour of running old cars when you take the whole life carbon footprint into account but the harsh reality is that the Government are not really interested in whole life footprints, they are more concerned with revenue and immediate emission targets, it's a sad fact of life).
Question - given that a petition is unlikely to work, what is the most effective way of lobbying for a return to the 30 year rolling exemption? Should we be writing to our MPs? Working through the FBHVC? Or doing something else?
For me, the exemption was a nice gesture - effectively the government's way of saying "thanks for paying 30 years' worth of VED, now have the rest on us". I am sure that anyone who can afford fuel and running costs for a 30 year old car can afford a few hundred quid for VED, but it was the message that mattered. It was the government sending a signal that it took some interest in seeing historic vehicles kept on the road.
Does anyone know how much VED is actually raised from vehicles over 30 years old? It can't be all that much. Presumably the DVLA could tell us.
For me, the exemption was a nice gesture - effectively the government's way of saying "thanks for paying 30 years' worth of VED, now have the rest on us". I am sure that anyone who can afford fuel and running costs for a 30 year old car can afford a few hundred quid for VED, but it was the message that mattered. It was the government sending a signal that it took some interest in seeing historic vehicles kept on the road.
Does anyone know how much VED is actually raised from vehicles over 30 years old? It can't be all that much. Presumably the DVLA could tell us.
AmitG said:
Question - return to the 30 year rolling exemption?
Perhaps it would be useful to know it was 25 years and was introduced as a concession when the continous taxation system (and SORN) was introduced. At the time many classic owners would tax the car for only 6 months. It helped that the then chancellors PPS was a petrol head - his Pre War A7 was racing at LeMans last year. The next chancellor then fixed it in 1997, hence 1973.To my mind asking for a 40 year rolling exception from 2012 would have more success, as intially it wouldn't cost the Treasury anything. Today the 50% rate is in the news again, and the other lot want VAT reduced. I can't see the politicians of any colour wanting classic cars as a priority tax cut.
We are more likely to see restrictions AND no change on the tax front.
Poor buggers that own post 73 cars will then likely be stuck in the middle not being able to enjoy full usage and having to pay tax.
The government taketh with one hand and the government taketh with the other hand as well.
Poor buggers that own post 73 cars will then likely be stuck in the middle not being able to enjoy full usage and having to pay tax.
The government taketh with one hand and the government taketh with the other hand as well.
john2443 said:
Why? Do you have inside information?
I think what you mean is 'If it were made law it might come with restrictions' dont' you?
No, I don't mean 'it might' - and I don't need to have inside information - it has already been discussed in Brussels and other European countries are already considering this. Bury your head in the sand if you want but be prepared to pay the consequences if you do. It's your choice.I think what you mean is 'If it were made law it might come with restrictions' dont' you?
AmitG said:
Question - given that a petition is unlikely to work, what is the most effective way of lobbying for a return to the 30 year rolling exemption?
You'd probably be better off trying to get Clarkson voted in as Prime minister TBH!.AmitG said:
Does anyone know how much VED is actually raised from vehicles over 30 years old? It can't be all that much. Presumably the DVLA could tell us.
Enough to make the Government think twice before giving it away, I'd say.Plus, as I posted before, the Government want to encourage people to run more modern, fuel efficient, environmentally friendly cars to help get somewhere nearer to their required national emission targets so they're just not going to bring back the rolling exemption regardless of how many petitions they receive.
woodytype S said:
....Just keep your head down and enjoy your old cars while you are allowed to drive them on the roads.
That about sums it up!woodytype S said:
Just keep your head down and enjoy your old cars while you are allowed to drive them on the roads.
Don't usually like '+1' type comments but wanted to show my support for this. We are lucky as we are. If no cars had tax free status would you still be lobbying for it? Would taking away tax free status for all cars be fairer, would that make you happy? Do you also want to stop paying council tax on houses over 30 years old?
restoman said:
john2443 said:
Why? Do you have inside information?
I think what you mean is 'If it were made law it might come with restrictions' dont' you?
No, I don't mean 'it might' - and I don't need to have inside information - it has already been discussed in Brussels and other European countries are already considering this. Bury your head in the sand if you want but be prepared to pay the consequences if you do. It's your choice.I think what you mean is 'If it were made law it might come with restrictions' dont' you?
I agree that there a risk/likelyhood that restrictions will be added, but you said, as though it is a fact, that restrictions will be added and (unless you have some information you are not sharing) you don't have proof of that being true.
Roy C said:
varsas said:
Would taking away tax free status for all cars be fairer, would that make you happy?
No.I've just paid my £0.00p for the VED on my pre-73 vehicle.
That's one of, and actually by far not the worst possible, risks we run if we have the current system examined...
john2443 said:
You contradict yourself in your reply, "Brussels and other European countries are already considering this". The fact that they are CONSIDERING does not mean that the uk WILL introduce it. Yes, they might, but we do not know for a fact that they will.
I agree that there a risk/likelyhood that restrictions will be added, but you said, as though it is a fact, that restrictions will be added and (unless you have some information you are not sharing) you don't have proof of that being true.
I really don't care if you agree with me or believe what I say - sign the petition if you want - it's up to you.I agree that there a risk/likelyhood that restrictions will be added, but you said, as though it is a fact, that restrictions will be added and (unless you have some information you are not sharing) you don't have proof of that being true.
Personally I wouldn't put too much faith in the FBHVC, they're really not interested in those of us with "cooking" classics as shown by their lack of support for anyone who uses their classic for in excess of 1500Km (yes Km, not miles) per year.
Again, the FBHVC seem fairly supportive of the Turin Charter which, if adopted as the EU-wide definition of a classic car, would probably put 50% of those currently taxed as Historic off the road.
Be careful what you wish for, it may come true!
Again, the FBHVC seem fairly supportive of the Turin Charter which, if adopted as the EU-wide definition of a classic car, would probably put 50% of those currently taxed as Historic off the road.
Be careful what you wish for, it may come true!
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