Accident on M11 this morning.
Discussion
A hit and run accident on the M11 just outside London has left a motorcyclist critical in hospital. I heard this on the radio this morning, the accident happened at around 7.30am. So why is the motorway to be closed until 10.30pm tonight. I realise the seriousness of the accident etc. But, itis not as if the carriageway has been damaged or a chemical spill etc.
Until I read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3795741.stm
With all due respect to the people involved, I still find it hard to believe a major MWay has to be closed for 15 hours.
Until I read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3795741.stm
With all due respect to the people involved, I still find it hard to believe a major MWay has to be closed for 15 hours.
The reason the road will have been closed was likely to have been as per my posts in this thread:
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=105079
I realise that a long closure is a right acher for all concerned, but it's definitely better to only close it once and get all the evidence first time round.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=105079
I realise that a long closure is a right acher for all concerned, but it's definitely better to only close it once and get all the evidence first time round.
Er, yes there was a reply, albeit a couple of replies further on:
Dibble said:
If it were a serious/fatal, then yes, the RDIM would come into play.
My above post is only a brief outline of RDIM - it's actually an A4 binder that runs to about 300 or so pages.
This doesn't include all the additional paperwork such as scene logs, policy decision logs, relative liaison logs, exhibits lists, property sheets etc etc.
The two things I find most frustrating at a scene are:
1. People (public AND inexperienced Police officers) "helping" by picking stuff up and bringing it to us. EVERYTHING should be left exactly where it is so its position can be recorded, as debris scatter/final position can be extremely valuable to the investigators in determining speeds, points of impact etc etc.
2. People complaining to me that they "only live down there..." and wanting to come through the cordon. If it's taped off, it's for a reason, and that reason isn't solely to inconvenience Mrs Miggins getting to her pie shop. I accept that a long closure can be a right pain, but believe me, I've no wish to keep a road closed any longer than strictly necessary.
That lays out your procedures for collecting evidence, it is not answer to the asked question.
If it had of been Mr Miggens would the road remain closed for 15 hours?? Or is it because it is an exteremly high ranking police officer that the road remains closed.
If it had of been Mr Miggens would the road remain closed for 15 hours?? Or is it because it is an exteremly high ranking police officer that the road remains closed.
hedders said:
But if this did happen to a member of my family and not a high ranking copper, would they still go to these lengths?
BTW, thats not a dig, it is a genuine enquiry.
Dibble said:
If it were a serious/fatal, then yes, the RDIM would come into play.
I don't see anything there about who the victim is.
Perhaps I should be less ambiguous:
If it is a fatal, serious likely to prove fatal, or serious/fatal fail to stop, then the road would be closed for as long as necessary, as per the nationally agreed ACPO Road Death Investigation Manual, which caters not only for fatals, but all of the above, irrespective of the status of the victim.
So if it was you, me, or that Chavscum lottery winner from Norfolk, the road would be closed.
Dibble, I don't want to get in an arguement about this as it is a sad state of affairs as it is. But, 15 hours, seems a long time to me. Perhaps could you explain why it would take 15 hours to collect evidence in a 2 vehicle accident where one vehicle was able to drive away.
I do and allways will believe that plod will look after themselves, I have a feeling that this long closure is to make sure that the perpatrator is (and I hope he/she) is punished, because the injured is a copper.
I do and allways will believe that plod will look after themselves, I have a feeling that this long closure is to make sure that the perpatrator is (and I hope he/she) is punished, because the injured is a copper.
Without knowing the full details, it's difficult to say why the road was closed for so long, but I will agree that 15 hours does seem like a long time.
As I posted elswehere though, it can sometimes take a while to get the collision investigator, search teams, scene manager, exhibits officer, senior investigating officer etc together.
One other thing is that with an officer of such a high rank in such a high profile role, he may well have other tasks/duties that aren't public knowledge, and the powers that be may want to take extra care to ensure that (a) he hasn't been bumped off (pardon the pun) by a disgruntled criminal, and (b) that he hasn't left any vital paperwork blowing around the motorway from his panniers/briefcase/satchel.
However, all that aside, even if it was anyone else, the road WOULD be closed for as long as it took to properly "do" the scene and nearby area.
As I posted elswehere though, it can sometimes take a while to get the collision investigator, search teams, scene manager, exhibits officer, senior investigating officer etc together.
One other thing is that with an officer of such a high rank in such a high profile role, he may well have other tasks/duties that aren't public knowledge, and the powers that be may want to take extra care to ensure that (a) he hasn't been bumped off (pardon the pun) by a disgruntled criminal, and (b) that he hasn't left any vital paperwork blowing around the motorway from his panniers/briefcase/satchel.
However, all that aside, even if it was anyone else, the road WOULD be closed for as long as it took to properly "do" the scene and nearby area.
steve,you seem unusually 'riled' by this.........its very diffrent from your usual posts mate. i would have thought that any investigation into any hit-and-run would use alot of resorces and not the usual 'clean it up,shift the cr@p' frontline cops.
alot of the time officers in other departments could be busy on other matters and can only attend once they have sorted out the job they are on so this could be why it was shut for so long.
to the people in the jam it was a major pain in the arse for a few hours BUT to the guy who was put in hospital this investigation (no matter what the timescale of the clearup was) could at-least catch the piece of sh*t,m***erf***ing w*nkstain who drove off.
ive been hit off a motorcycle in 1990 by a driver in a stolen xr3i that shot through a set of red lights......and as i was lying in the middle of the uxbridge road (jct of lees road,hillingdon if anyone knows it) with the bike embedded in the railings i saw the passenger lean out of his window and laugh....then the car tore off towards hayes.....i would have loved to have got my hands round the c***s neck and slowly relieve him of all the breath in his body for that but i know that even if he walked past me today i wouldnt know him from adam.
good luck to the guy in hospital,hope the bastard who did this gets EVERYTHING they deserve!
>> Edited by cortinaman on Friday 11th June 01:04
must admit the first thought that came in my mind given the length of road closure was that there was a chance this was a bit more than a rta.
if not; are we looking at a scenario where a couple of crashes on the M25 effectively close the whole road. thus bringing a huge portion of the national road network to a complete stand still.
what was the procedure previously?
if not; are we looking at a scenario where a couple of crashes on the M25 effectively close the whole road. thus bringing a huge portion of the national road network to a complete stand still.
what was the procedure previously?
Why the delay?.
www.tinyurl.com/me10
Select Road Death Investigation Manual and down load, take about 3 minutes.
Wonder how the hell I managed in the past.
As to comments about Police being involved, then yes some special treatment involved - to ensure that nothing is missed to give complaint of whitewash. Not only just getting on and doing the job but ensuring that everything is transparent for PCA.
DVD
(Note the author of the Manual whose intention is not to let you go fast)
www.tinyurl.com/me10
Select Road Death Investigation Manual and down load, take about 3 minutes.
Wonder how the hell I managed in the past.
As to comments about Police being involved, then yes some special treatment involved - to ensure that nothing is missed to give complaint of whitewash. Not only just getting on and doing the job but ensuring that everything is transparent for PCA.
DVD
(Note the author of the Manual whose intention is not to let you go fast)
I was involved in this 'incident' yesterday and all i can say that is...yes, it is sensitive and im confident that had it been any other Motrocyclist then it would have been treated the same way.
There are a lot of other parts to this which obviously i cant go into at this present time.
There are a lot of other parts to this which obviously i cant go into at this present time.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff