Considering building a GTR, but need help

[yelloduc]

I've been having a serious case of "Sellers remorse" since letting my Lotus go. I also have a ton of time on my hands, and need a project/hobby. Enter the Ultima GTR.

The area that I'm having the most difficulty with is engine choice. I won't be tracking the car, however as we all know "There's no replacement for displacement".;) The 16 year-old in me wants ridiculous horsepower, but I'm no longer a kid, nor do I have the funds for a $40K engine. What I believe I'm looking for is usable power with price point in mind. I haven't determined what my budget is yet.

What I do want:

A friend of mind swapped his Corvette C6 Z06 for my Elise. The 505Hp engine was rather intoxicating; especially the torque! I want something that has that "Lub-Dub" sound, which makes people say "What the heck is under that hood". Something that sounds akin to an old Chris-Craft inboard engine.

In all honesty, I don't know that much about engines, and I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge around here. So, on to my question:

[U]Which engine would you buy and why?[/U]

[U]Here is the list of engine choices[/U]: http://www.amerspeed.com/cgi-bin/showultimaengines.cgi

I am aware that I could use several other engines not listed on the Amerspeed site. However, being that I don't know that much about engines, I like the idea of having everything I need to simply follow directions to complete the installation. I would also be saving some money because Amerspeed is within driving distance from me (I can pick the motor up).

Thanks for the help, and if this project is to be, I will start posting photos of the build.

[Steve_D]

LS7 crate engine 505hp
or cheaper
LS3 or the like but keep the HP down or the engine will not be as nice to live with.

Steve

[Storer]

Go with the LS7 and start with it standard. A descent set of headers and exhaust will see you with about 550hp.

In a couple of years time you can "refresh" the motor with a few additional performance enhancing components and release 650-700hp.

My thoughts anyway.

Paul

[yelloduc]

Thanks Steve & Storer!

So, why the LSx engine over the others? I can achieve the same Hp for significantly less money with one of them.

[yelloduc]

Second question:

I see that Amerspeed has a turnkey package for the LS1/3/7, but I don't see one for the other engines?

I'm considering driving to Amerspeed so I can spend a day discussing & viewing engines.

[Storer]

With an LS engine you have a reliable, smooth running, easy starting engine that will not drip oil all over your garage floor.

We don't have the chance to "drive over to American Speed" here so I think it would be a good idea if you can.

Paul

[yelloduc]

Good enough reason to get the LSx engine.

On the same token, we over here don't have the ability to drive over to the Ultima factory to poke around and/or drive a car I would rather have the ability to go to the factory than look at the engine Yes, I'm jealous

[Steve_D]

yelloduc said:

....I see that Amerspeed has a turnkey package for the LS1/3/7, but I don't see one for the other engines?....

As these are fuel injected there are far more 'techy' bits to resolve than just plugging a fuel line onto a carb.
The loom for instance is custom made for the Ultima whereas the GM version is designed around a front engine instal.

Steve

[Graham-P]

LS3, cheaper than a LS7, slighty less power but if you're not going to track it save some money to spend in other areas, like a gearbox with decent ratios, fuel delivery, heat management, interior etc. It's more than enough power for the road and you can always upgrade it in the future when funds allow.
Obviously I'm a bit biased here, but for me (and my bank account) it was a no brainer.

Graham

Edited by Graham-P on Sunday 11th September 10:25

[yelloduc]

Thanks Graham. I appreciate your opinion. Looks like the LSx engine is a top choice around here.

[UltimaCH]

LSx type engine is one way to meet modern emission standards, at least in most countries in Europe.

[F.C.]

Heat management is better on the LSX as well much better coolant flow.
You might not appreciate this at first but once you start tinkering (and you will ) the extra capacity for heat removal is a big bonus.

[yelloduc]

Cockpit heat was always an issue in my Lotus, so I can fully appreciate the need for comfort.

[GingerWizard]

I had a run out with about 50 different cars about 2.5 years ago, one of them was a GTR running a 390bhp LS3 engine. At 135mph that car pulled along side, dropped a gear and fecked off.

Wringing a cars neck is much more fun then stting ones self all the time. 400bhp/500ft/lb torque. job done.

[yelloduc]

I called American Speed, suppliers of the GTR engines, today. Short but informative conversation. I explained what I was looking for, and the cliff notes were that they suggest something in the 530-550Hp range. He went on to say that anything more than that was useless unless you were tracking/racing the car. He suggested the LSx engines, but if I were looking for that "Lub-Dub" noise, I should be looking at the carbed engines.

I was doing a quick cost analysis of the engines available and found the following:

550 HP engines

383ci 550/515 $13,395.00 $24.35/Hp
396ci 550/550 $13,795.00 $25.08/Hp
406ci 550/550 $14,395.00 $26.17/Hp
427ci 550/570 $15,495 $28.17/Hp


535 HP engines

383ci 535/520 $12,595.00 $24.22/Hp
396ci 535/540 $13,595.00 $26.09/Hp
427ci 535/560 $15,295.00 $28.59/Hp

525 HP engines

383ci 525/520 $12,295.00 $23.42/Hp
406ci 525/540 $14,295.00 $27.28/Hp

500 HP engines

383ci 500/515 $11,995.00 $23.99/Hp
396ci 510/535 $13,295.00 $26.07/Hp


LS1 Engine 345/365 $14,890.00 $43.16/Hp
LS3 Engine 480/465 $16,790.00 $34.98/Hp
LS3 Engine 530/515 $18,390.00 34.69/Hp



Why would I want a larger displacement engine (for more money) when a smaller displacement engine puts out the same power for less money? The 383ci/525Hp engine looks rather enticing. None of the prices include the tranny and associated parts. The LSx engine prices listed above include the "turn key package", which I'm told by AS makes the engine a "drop-in" installation.

[Storer]

The 383 may produce the same power as a 427 at a lower cost but if your later decide you want more power (as most do) the it will be cheaper to get more power from the larger engine with a less stressed package.

For the LS engines, check that AS include all the pumps (high and low pressure), regulator, pipework, swirl pot, etc as this adds considerable cost. The "bling" (Hosequip) pipework on a Ultima can add up to well over £1500.

Paul

[yelloduc]

Thanks! They tell me that it's a "turn-key" package, but I should check to insure that it truly is.

I like the idea of a less stressed engine as I am not much for tinkering on them. I would rather spend my time driving as opposed to staring at a torn apart engine in the garage.