GTM Libra - Still a realistic proposition?
Discussion
First of all, apologies if any of the following questions make me seem to be a bit of a simpleton - I am really when it comes to kits! 
I've been interested for a while in the concept of running a GTM Libra as the looks, the performance and the coupe practicality make it seem quite an appealing package, but as someone entirely inexperienced in running a kit-based car I thought I'd best post here in the hope of getting advice from people with a lot more experience.
I've read through as much of the previous GTM threads as I can find in a bid to get more of an idea of the typical ownership experience but I still have a few questions that I'd be really grateful for anyone's thoughts on:
A) In the wake of Westfield buying out - and not producing - the Libra, and with the use of now fairly rare Metros as a donor car, is it still viable to find replacement components and parts for when components inevitably break / need replacing?
B) The general sentiment I can gather is that the 1.8 VVC is the engine of choice for the Libra - is this still correct? Am I right in thinking with these being used in the MGF/ZR that parts are still relatively easy to source for this engine?
C) As an individual with limited mechanical experience (changing pads / discs / filters / removal of bodywork to effect basic repairs etc), would I be biting off more than I can chew with a GTM? If so, is there a suitable alternative I should be looking at starting out with?
Thanks in advance for your help.
I've been interested for a while in the concept of running a GTM Libra as the looks, the performance and the coupe practicality make it seem quite an appealing package, but as someone entirely inexperienced in running a kit-based car I thought I'd best post here in the hope of getting advice from people with a lot more experience.
I've read through as much of the previous GTM threads as I can find in a bid to get more of an idea of the typical ownership experience but I still have a few questions that I'd be really grateful for anyone's thoughts on:
A) In the wake of Westfield buying out - and not producing - the Libra, and with the use of now fairly rare Metros as a donor car, is it still viable to find replacement components and parts for when components inevitably break / need replacing?
B) The general sentiment I can gather is that the 1.8 VVC is the engine of choice for the Libra - is this still correct? Am I right in thinking with these being used in the MGF/ZR that parts are still relatively easy to source for this engine?
C) As an individual with limited mechanical experience (changing pads / discs / filters / removal of bodywork to effect basic repairs etc), would I be biting off more than I can chew with a GTM? If so, is there a suitable alternative I should be looking at starting out with?
Thanks in advance for your help.
A VVC engined Libra has more in common with an MGF for service parts than a metro. Brakes, hubs, engine, gearbox, driveshafts.
The Metro only bits are bits of the loom and fuses (but might have been built with Rover 200) heater, window winding mechanism, pedal box (much modified) Steering column and stalks (but again might have been build with Rover 200) Wiper motor and arms. Door locking mechanism. Radiator (but several others have been fitted.
A few had Metro instruments, but most had GTM specific.
The suspension is all bespoke, the steering rack is LHD Metro (mounted upside down and in front of the wheels)
As cars go, it's easy to work on. But the big problem with kit cars, is that there's loads of undocumented stuff which gets changed by each owner. Not all owners actually know what they're doing either!
There's a good amount of help available here though.
Oh, and I miss mine. If I had the garage space, I buy another. Bloody brilliant little coupe.
The Metro only bits are bits of the loom and fuses (but might have been built with Rover 200) heater, window winding mechanism, pedal box (much modified) Steering column and stalks (but again might have been build with Rover 200) Wiper motor and arms. Door locking mechanism. Radiator (but several others have been fitted.
A few had Metro instruments, but most had GTM specific.
The suspension is all bespoke, the steering rack is LHD Metro (mounted upside down and in front of the wheels)
As cars go, it's easy to work on. But the big problem with kit cars, is that there's loads of undocumented stuff which gets changed by each owner. Not all owners actually know what they're doing either!
There's a good amount of help available here though.
Oh, and I miss mine. If I had the garage space, I buy another. Bloody brilliant little coupe.
I went through the same sort of process. I am now the new owner (fourth owner) of Libra GTM bought yesterday. This one
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=red+GTM+Libra&...
After picking the car up my son Andy and myself completed the 176 mile return trip setting of after 9pm and with a couple of stops were safely home around 1 am this morning. Its no Jag for comfort but on smooth tarmac at 70 mph we could converse in a normal manner. That is not the case on some of the concrete poo we had to travel over where the noise was very pronounced.
Although checked and driven before the purchase the 170 odd miles did highlight a few things most were disclosed by the former owner. Some may only have started due to the drive itself as the car had not been used much in the previous months. None are of any concern and I had expected rattles of which there were very few and only at a certain speed, all will be resolved soon.
I will post more later on my life with a Libra, oh I do plan to cover over 30k in each year of ownership.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=red+GTM+Libra&...
After picking the car up my son Andy and myself completed the 176 mile return trip setting of after 9pm and with a couple of stops were safely home around 1 am this morning. Its no Jag for comfort but on smooth tarmac at 70 mph we could converse in a normal manner. That is not the case on some of the concrete poo we had to travel over where the noise was very pronounced.
Although checked and driven before the purchase the 170 odd miles did highlight a few things most were disclosed by the former owner. Some may only have started due to the drive itself as the car had not been used much in the previous months. None are of any concern and I had expected rattles of which there were very few and only at a certain speed, all will be resolved soon.
I will post more later on my life with a Libra, oh I do plan to cover over 30k in each year of ownership.
Edited by stevemiller on Sunday 11th September 18:55
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/yzGXVqe3.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/SZ9Pkr2I" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/SZ9Pkr2I.jpg)
Furyblade_Lee said:
If anyone is seriously thinking of buying a Libra at the moment, this is probobly one of the best thttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GTM-Libra-2006-/140603636431?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item20bca13acfhere is out there, has the Z-Cars rear suspension upgrade and is a very nice car.
I do miss it 
A) Sourcing components for defunct kit cars is always a bit of a task. Most of the stuff that actually wears out or breaks(bearings, switches, engine/transmission components) are usually available, if you know where to look and what to look for and the custom-fabricated components are usually simple enough for a good specialist to replicate, but there's a sub-clause of Sod's law that says its always the one really obscure bit of unobtainium that breaks and renders the car unusable for a couple of months while you track down a replacement. Not that it should put you off, but it's something you have to be aware of if you're planning to use the car as a daily driver.
B) Yes, I'd say that the VVC is the engine of choice from amongst the K-series range. All parts are still readily available and I rate it as a good engine, though you do have to be aware of the potential cooling/head gasket problems which, with your stated level of mechanical experience, could well cost you between £600-£1000 to fix, if you're unlucky and suffer HGF.
C) The most obvious alternative is the Lotus Elise (with a hardtop, if you're bothered by the softtop, though the hood is perfectly weatherproof and serviceable). They are very similar in terms of performance and practicality (the Elise has the slight edge in handling and performance, I would say, and the Libra a bit more practical). Parts supply and specialist support for the Elise is superb, so you wouldn't have any of the parts/knowledge issues that would go with the GTM. Less individuality, higher insurance costs, but easier to sell (with values on S1 cars increasingly firm) and the Lotus badge probably has more 'kudos' in most people's eyes. Try finding a VVC-engined Elise S1 though (ie. the 111S)... they're like hens teeth; I think they've all been exported to Europe or else their owners are hanging on to them.
B) Yes, I'd say that the VVC is the engine of choice from amongst the K-series range. All parts are still readily available and I rate it as a good engine, though you do have to be aware of the potential cooling/head gasket problems which, with your stated level of mechanical experience, could well cost you between £600-£1000 to fix, if you're unlucky and suffer HGF.
C) The most obvious alternative is the Lotus Elise (with a hardtop, if you're bothered by the softtop, though the hood is perfectly weatherproof and serviceable). They are very similar in terms of performance and practicality (the Elise has the slight edge in handling and performance, I would say, and the Libra a bit more practical). Parts supply and specialist support for the Elise is superb, so you wouldn't have any of the parts/knowledge issues that would go with the GTM. Less individuality, higher insurance costs, but easier to sell (with values on S1 cars increasingly firm) and the Lotus badge probably has more 'kudos' in most people's eyes. Try finding a VVC-engined Elise S1 though (ie. the 111S)... they're like hens teeth; I think they've all been exported to Europe or else their owners are hanging on to them.
Thanks for the feedback thus far all - certainly lots of food for thought.
It's great to hear experience from Libra owners, both past and present - it's clear there's a lot of love for the Libra here, which is what first reassured me that it might be worth an investment.
The Elise was on the short list of 'more sensible' alternatives, but I was dissuaded for the two negative factors mentioned. I'm conscious they are fantastic cars, but they are less unique, and I've found I'm struggling to find a broker willing to insure me as a 29 year old in a relatively good postcode area, even though I'm intending on running the car as a weekend car on limited mileage (perhaps this is age related and might change when I hit middle age next march?). Specialist Kit car brokers, on the other hand, seem happy to offer me cover for less than £300...
The notorious head gasket failure is admittedly one of the concerns I had about the 1.8 vvc - it's always been an ambition to learn to take down an engine so that I can service more myself, but the thought of trying to replace / reseal a leaking head gasket does fill me with dread!
It's great to hear experience from Libra owners, both past and present - it's clear there's a lot of love for the Libra here, which is what first reassured me that it might be worth an investment.
The Elise was on the short list of 'more sensible' alternatives, but I was dissuaded for the two negative factors mentioned. I'm conscious they are fantastic cars, but they are less unique, and I've found I'm struggling to find a broker willing to insure me as a 29 year old in a relatively good postcode area, even though I'm intending on running the car as a weekend car on limited mileage (perhaps this is age related and might change when I hit middle age next march?). Specialist Kit car brokers, on the other hand, seem happy to offer me cover for less than £300...
The notorious head gasket failure is admittedly one of the concerns I had about the 1.8 vvc - it's always been an ambition to learn to take down an engine so that I can service more myself, but the thought of trying to replace / reseal a leaking head gasket does fill me with dread!
Russ at Westfield sorted me out earlier this year with a GTO front bonnet so bodywork is still available, it just takes time. They didnt have much product knowledge as apparently everyone to do with GTM there has gone but they were very willing to dive in and sort out what needed to be done. I believe they now have all the moulds onsite at Westfield HQ.
Trap said:
Russ at Westfield sorted me out earlier this year with a GTO front bonnet so bodywork is still available, it just takes time. They didnt have much product knowledge as apparently everyone to do with GTM there has gone but they were very willing to dive in and sort out what needed to be done. I believe they now have all the moulds onsite at Westfield HQ.
Good to know.Steve
Trap said:
Russ at Westfield sorted me out earlier this year with a GTO front bonnet so bodywork is still available, it just takes time. They didnt have much product knowledge as apparently everyone to do with GTM there has gone but they were very willing to dive in and sort out what needed to be done. I believe they now have all the moulds onsite at Westfield HQ.
Gelcoat or sprayed? Can you get the proper Libra bonnet?Arthur Jackson said:
Gelcoat or sprayed? Can you get the proper Libra bonnet?
At the time... Jan 2011 they offered me the option of any of the bonnet types in Gelcoat or not. I went for the Spyder bonnet with separate GTO light cluster mouldings and loom (think I got the last loom). Cost the most of the options available but at the time I didn't think Id be selling it. Ah well at least I can see properly at night now! Edited by Trap on Tuesday 13th September 22:29
200Plus Club said:
always remember following a well driven gtm round donnington a few yrs ago, handled very well by looks of it. wasnt the fastest in a straight line but overall seemed like fun on track.
Was it yellow by any chance? If so it was probably quite sideways a lot too!!Where are you Lee? Was it you?
That was Probobly Dave Boud's old car, running an Exige VHPD engine. There is also another fast red one about which was used for sprints / hillclimbs with FiA spec rollhoop and throttle bodies on the engine. That was for sale a while back too. Both were nice fast cars.
For the ultimate Libra Google " Audi Turbo GTM Libra Nederlands" or something and you will Probobly stumble across Bertram Bakkers 280bhp Libra with Audi Turbo and DSG gearbox. What a tool, and by far the best Libra ever constructed.
He even nearly keeps up with us in the Alps dont you Bertie?? :-)
For the ultimate Libra Google " Audi Turbo GTM Libra Nederlands" or something and you will Probobly stumble across Bertram Bakkers 280bhp Libra with Audi Turbo and DSG gearbox. What a tool, and by far the best Libra ever constructed.
He even nearly keeps up with us in the Alps dont you Bertie?? :-)
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