my new (old) Honda Civic Type R
Discussion
So, after some deliberation, I decided to move the Leon Cupra R 225 on in favour of something NA. I had a great time with the Cupra R, it was fast, comfortable and decent on petrol for the power available, and it even sounded good for a turbo car. However, I wanted something that encouraged the keen driver and would reward revving the engine. Outright pace is not everything, and I wanted something that was quick but could be worked more at lower speeds than the Cupra. I looked at RS Clios which I think are great cars, but the interiors never wowed me and the driving position was less than ideal.
I knew the only thing for it was a Civic Type R, either an EK9 or an EP3. I knew the chances of finding a good EK9 were next to none, so I was on the hunt for an EP3. I drove the one I bought last week and came away with mixed feelings. The driving position was not as good as I was used to in the Cupra R, but I knew I could adapt to it. The brakes were nowhere near as powerful as I was used to, nor was the car as fast, in a straight line at least. However, a couple of things really bit me hard and got me hooked.
Firstly, the engine is a gem; revving to the 8,000rpm redline is joyous and the induction noise is incredible for a standard car. The smooth power delivery (compared to the WOT, boost building...WHOOOSH! of the Cupra R) makes it easy to drive quickly and confidently, as you know exactly where you are at with the EP3, quick acceleration is just a throttle-blipped shift and a lower gear away, which is always a joy to do with the zingy, instantaneous throttle response.
Secondly, the gearbox. I'm sure I don't need to say much about this, anyone who is familiar with these cars knows it is incredible. Fast, accurate and so tactile to use. The gear stick position was a little unusual to me at first but it is great having the stick so close to the steering wheel.
Thirdly, the noise. I am a huge advocate of making cars sound good. I think if even a slow-ish car has a decent exhaust note or induction noise, it can improve even the most mundane of drives, not that I'm advocating sticking a straight-through exhaust on a Mondeo! The Type R has such a unique vocal character. It's quiet at low revs, but from about 3000-4500rpm it makes this excellent bass note with a metallic growl on top that changes into a full on howl from 5000-8000rpm. It sounded so alive and boisterous on the test drive I started to think the exhaust had been modified, but it seems to look standard. It appears to be a standard model, but by god it sounds good! I know some people say adding an induction kit can improve the noise further but I've also seen conflicting reports (from Spoon, a fairly reputable Honda tuner) that removing the standard airbox can harm the throttle response, and really I have no desire to fiddle with it!
The interior is great too, I enjoy having a glovebox (due to the Cupra Rs 6 cd changer, the glovebox was near non-existant) and the seats are fantastic. The only thing which annoyed me about them was the apparent lack of height adjustment, but once I had moved the steering wheel and the chair about a bit I was happy. There is a bit more noise in the cabin than the extremely well sound-proofed Cupra, but tbh I enjoy that. The Cupra R sounded great with it's Miltek exhaust, but with the windows up you couldn't hear a damn thing, which is typical of VAG cars, but no so good on an enthusiastic drivers car.
I took the car out into the city today and tackled some speedbumps that would have seen the Cupra cowering, and even parked in a multistory, something off-limits to the Cupra, unless I fancied grinding the front bumper off. It really is a doddle to drive, it feels sharper and more encouraging than the Cupra R with none of the compromises. As much as I loved my Leon, I consider the Type R an upgrade in every respect!
I wanted one with air-con, not that I use it to often but I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Cliche I know! It was a £1000 option on UK spec EP3s (according to parkers.co.uk) so I'm happy to have it here.
So, for the future I have nothing much planned for it. As far as I'm concerned Honda did a grat job getting the car right "out of the box". One of things I like about Japanese cars is the performance tuning side of things, but while I enjoy looking at all the shiny toys in the catalogues I won't be spending cash on them! I have looked at Jap cannon style exhaust (lots of expensive options to choose from!) and I will probably go with a Group N1 style exhaust system. The one I've got my eye on is the Spoon N1, it comes highly recommended and has a removable bung system to limit the noise if you need it. There is loads of choice though, from the likes of Buddy Club, Apexi, HKS, Greddy, blitz etc, all of which have their advocates. A bit of crafty youtubing has, so far at least, singled out the Spoon N1 as the best option so far.
Now, some pics!
Here is the backbox, looks a bit tatty on the box itself but appears to my eyes to the standard unit. Probably one of the best factory spec exhausts I've ever heard!
Thanks for looking!
I knew the only thing for it was a Civic Type R, either an EK9 or an EP3. I knew the chances of finding a good EK9 were next to none, so I was on the hunt for an EP3. I drove the one I bought last week and came away with mixed feelings. The driving position was not as good as I was used to in the Cupra R, but I knew I could adapt to it. The brakes were nowhere near as powerful as I was used to, nor was the car as fast, in a straight line at least. However, a couple of things really bit me hard and got me hooked.
Firstly, the engine is a gem; revving to the 8,000rpm redline is joyous and the induction noise is incredible for a standard car. The smooth power delivery (compared to the WOT, boost building...WHOOOSH! of the Cupra R) makes it easy to drive quickly and confidently, as you know exactly where you are at with the EP3, quick acceleration is just a throttle-blipped shift and a lower gear away, which is always a joy to do with the zingy, instantaneous throttle response.
Secondly, the gearbox. I'm sure I don't need to say much about this, anyone who is familiar with these cars knows it is incredible. Fast, accurate and so tactile to use. The gear stick position was a little unusual to me at first but it is great having the stick so close to the steering wheel.
Thirdly, the noise. I am a huge advocate of making cars sound good. I think if even a slow-ish car has a decent exhaust note or induction noise, it can improve even the most mundane of drives, not that I'm advocating sticking a straight-through exhaust on a Mondeo! The Type R has such a unique vocal character. It's quiet at low revs, but from about 3000-4500rpm it makes this excellent bass note with a metallic growl on top that changes into a full on howl from 5000-8000rpm. It sounded so alive and boisterous on the test drive I started to think the exhaust had been modified, but it seems to look standard. It appears to be a standard model, but by god it sounds good! I know some people say adding an induction kit can improve the noise further but I've also seen conflicting reports (from Spoon, a fairly reputable Honda tuner) that removing the standard airbox can harm the throttle response, and really I have no desire to fiddle with it!
The interior is great too, I enjoy having a glovebox (due to the Cupra Rs 6 cd changer, the glovebox was near non-existant) and the seats are fantastic. The only thing which annoyed me about them was the apparent lack of height adjustment, but once I had moved the steering wheel and the chair about a bit I was happy. There is a bit more noise in the cabin than the extremely well sound-proofed Cupra, but tbh I enjoy that. The Cupra R sounded great with it's Miltek exhaust, but with the windows up you couldn't hear a damn thing, which is typical of VAG cars, but no so good on an enthusiastic drivers car.
I took the car out into the city today and tackled some speedbumps that would have seen the Cupra cowering, and even parked in a multistory, something off-limits to the Cupra, unless I fancied grinding the front bumper off. It really is a doddle to drive, it feels sharper and more encouraging than the Cupra R with none of the compromises. As much as I loved my Leon, I consider the Type R an upgrade in every respect!
I wanted one with air-con, not that I use it to often but I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Cliche I know! It was a £1000 option on UK spec EP3s (according to parkers.co.uk) so I'm happy to have it here.
So, for the future I have nothing much planned for it. As far as I'm concerned Honda did a grat job getting the car right "out of the box". One of things I like about Japanese cars is the performance tuning side of things, but while I enjoy looking at all the shiny toys in the catalogues I won't be spending cash on them! I have looked at Jap cannon style exhaust (lots of expensive options to choose from!) and I will probably go with a Group N1 style exhaust system. The one I've got my eye on is the Spoon N1, it comes highly recommended and has a removable bung system to limit the noise if you need it. There is loads of choice though, from the likes of Buddy Club, Apexi, HKS, Greddy, blitz etc, all of which have their advocates. A bit of crafty youtubing has, so far at least, singled out the Spoon N1 as the best option so far.
Now, some pics!
Here is the backbox, looks a bit tatty on the box itself but appears to my eyes to the standard unit. Probably one of the best factory spec exhausts I've ever heard!
Thanks for looking!
Edited by Mastodon2 on Wednesday 14th September 15:52
soad said:
That's a good write up, car looks good.
I'd probably be trying to find that gearstick forever on the first day
Is it still in the same position on a newer models?
I think so yes, right next to the steering wheel. A friend of mine used to have a similar stick-placement in a Citroen Picasso or something, he said when he changed to a Mondeo after that for the first couple of days he would poke the air conditioning controls every now and again by accident when he wanted to change gear!I'd probably be trying to find that gearstick forever on the first day
Is it still in the same position on a newer models?
As for the induction kits, it seems to be Spoon's recommendation not to remove the airbox, but the filter element inside can be changed for higher-flow items. Is this the case with the induction kits, or are they just big cone filters and cold air feeds that replace the standard airbox?
Looks a tidy car. One thing about the comparison between the Leon and the Civic, the only reason the Leon feels faster is purely down to the turbo power delivery. If you put them side by side there is nothing in them at all. The Civic may even have the edge slightly due to it's revs.
Good exhaust to go for is the full Piper system with manifold. Not expensive compared to most, many have seen good power gains with them also, combine with the Tegiwa M induction kit and you've got one of the best sounding cars you could find for the money.
Good exhaust to go for is the full Piper system with manifold. Not expensive compared to most, many have seen good power gains with them also, combine with the Tegiwa M induction kit and you've got one of the best sounding cars you could find for the money.
Mastodon2 said:
I think so yes, right next to the steering wheel. A friend of mine used to have a similar stick-placement in a Citroen Picasso or something, he said when he changed to a Mondeo after that for the first couple of days he would poke the air conditioning controls every now and again by accident when he wanted to change gear!
As for the induction kits, it seems to be Spoon's recommendation not to remove the airbox, but the filter element inside can be changed for higher-flow items. Is this the case with the induction kits, or are they just big cone filters and cold air feeds that replace the standard airbox?
This is what you want:As for the induction kits, it seems to be Spoon's recommendation not to remove the airbox, but the filter element inside can be changed for higher-flow items. Is this the case with the induction kits, or are they just big cone filters and cold air feeds that replace the standard airbox?
Has its own airbox so only feeds cold air from the little scoop that you put on the scuttle. Genuine power gains, but the sound is just fantastic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W95NIREaRbg&fea...
Fantastic write up, and the car looks great. (Silver much easier to keep clean than the other colours!).
Interesting comparison with the Cupra, currently weighing up buying a 1.8T VAG and have noticed for the same money I can get a Civic Type R.
How bad is the type-R on the motorway, are you always chopping gears to do an overtake?
Interesting comparison with the Cupra, currently weighing up buying a 1.8T VAG and have noticed for the same money I can get a Civic Type R.
How bad is the type-R on the motorway, are you always chopping gears to do an overtake?
Some people say "the VTEC engine has no torque" - don't you believe it! I have not done a great deal of motorway miles in it yet but almost every journey I do at the minute includes at least 5 or 6 miles down dual carriageway. If you pop it in 6th gear (about 3100rpm at 70mph iirc) and drive it like an automatic you won't change the world putting your foot down, but it will pull and pick up. Blip it into 5th or even down to 4th and put your foot in and you will start to get some action though. The Cupra was comfier on motorways but only because of the biggier, spongier seats and very effective noise insulation, too effective imo.
I think it's all about how you drive it really. If I was driving at 70mph in 6th gear in the Cupra R and I wanted to do a quick overtake, if I didn't change down to 5th and instead just floored it, I would get slow acceleration up to 80mph under the steam of the engine only, because the turbo would be sucking away slowly building boost, the whole process taking maybe 4 or even 5 seconds anyway. Of course, blipping it into 5th and then giving it some welly would see it ripping off down the road, on boost within about 2 seconds. Both cars need you to keep on top of them to make decent progress.
A lot of decriers of Honda act like VTEC engines are as flat as pancakes on the lower-RPM cam, when they aren't really. They are fizzy and responsive 2.0L engines, but if you try to make progress in one like you are driving a turbo diesel then you might find them a little slouchy. It does take some getting used to remember that you shift up at 8000rpm, not 3400rpm, if you are not used to it! It's the same as a turbo car with a decent sized turbo really though; small "economy-producer" turbos like you get in some shopping cars and TDIs these days tend to spin up very quickly and produce boost from low RPMs, in effect all these are doing is making the car more efficient at part-load and taking the strain off the car accelerating at lower speeds, and their operation is almost lag-free. Big turbos, like you would see in an Evo or an Skyline, need boost to build before they hurl the car down the road, so performance turbo cars need to be kept on the boil, usually 3500-6000rpm, in just the same way as a VTEC engine needs to be kept in the right rev range to provide it's optimum power.
I think it's all about how you drive it really. If I was driving at 70mph in 6th gear in the Cupra R and I wanted to do a quick overtake, if I didn't change down to 5th and instead just floored it, I would get slow acceleration up to 80mph under the steam of the engine only, because the turbo would be sucking away slowly building boost, the whole process taking maybe 4 or even 5 seconds anyway. Of course, blipping it into 5th and then giving it some welly would see it ripping off down the road, on boost within about 2 seconds. Both cars need you to keep on top of them to make decent progress.
A lot of decriers of Honda act like VTEC engines are as flat as pancakes on the lower-RPM cam, when they aren't really. They are fizzy and responsive 2.0L engines, but if you try to make progress in one like you are driving a turbo diesel then you might find them a little slouchy. It does take some getting used to remember that you shift up at 8000rpm, not 3400rpm, if you are not used to it! It's the same as a turbo car with a decent sized turbo really though; small "economy-producer" turbos like you get in some shopping cars and TDIs these days tend to spin up very quickly and produce boost from low RPMs, in effect all these are doing is making the car more efficient at part-load and taking the strain off the car accelerating at lower speeds, and their operation is almost lag-free. Big turbos, like you would see in an Evo or an Skyline, need boost to build before they hurl the car down the road, so performance turbo cars need to be kept on the boil, usually 3500-6000rpm, in just the same way as a VTEC engine needs to be kept in the right rev range to provide it's optimum power.
What a pleasing review!
I'v owned an anniversary since 08'.
With the considered weight of 1204kg (curiously the same weight of a stripped impreza in gt4/5) 144ft/lb is enough when your have rpms to play with....
I have a AEM cold air induction kit that snakes behind the front left fog light, stay out of puddles more then 10" deep (2" higher then the door bottoms!!!!) and you have no problems (cue the hydro lock boys!!!!)
Pin third gear at 45mph in a tunnel and ride the noise! (4th sees over a ton!)
Tracking is inportant, but standard they are brilliant, a much better package then the alternative french model....
Iv seen over 150mph on a straight (TOMTOM) and doing the ultimate B road blast, its very involved and quick. Very quick.
Acclerating flat out, 5th gear offers the biggest rush from a stop, if you can keep it pinned to 8200rpm in every gear then slot in 6th you KNOW you are in a hurry. No doubt.
Enjoy!
Gwiz
I'v owned an anniversary since 08'.
With the considered weight of 1204kg (curiously the same weight of a stripped impreza in gt4/5) 144ft/lb is enough when your have rpms to play with....
I have a AEM cold air induction kit that snakes behind the front left fog light, stay out of puddles more then 10" deep (2" higher then the door bottoms!!!!) and you have no problems (cue the hydro lock boys!!!!)
Pin third gear at 45mph in a tunnel and ride the noise! (4th sees over a ton!)
Tracking is inportant, but standard they are brilliant, a much better package then the alternative french model....
Iv seen over 150mph on a straight (TOMTOM) and doing the ultimate B road blast, its very involved and quick. Very quick.
Acclerating flat out, 5th gear offers the biggest rush from a stop, if you can keep it pinned to 8200rpm in every gear then slot in 6th you KNOW you are in a hurry. No doubt.
Enjoy!
Gwiz
Great choice. I would say the Spoon N1 would be the best choice of aftermarket exhaust system as Spoon are famous for tuning Honda's well. Had a few mates that had Spoon N1 systems on DC5's and EK4's and always sounded awesome.
If your not looking to change the filter to an induction kit, then a Spoon foam panel filter would suit the job very well.
If your not looking to change the filter to an induction kit, then a Spoon foam panel filter would suit the job very well.
stowey1984 said:
Great choice. I would say the Spoon N1 would be the best choice of aftermarket exhaust system as Spoon are famous for tuning Honda's well. Had a few mates that had Spoon N1 systems on DC5's and EK4's and always sounded awesome.
If your not looking to change the filter to an induction kit, then a Spoon foam panel filter would suit the job very well.
One of my mates had a J's Racing 70RR on his DC5 and that sounded great, but my god it was so loud!If your not looking to change the filter to an induction kit, then a Spoon foam panel filter would suit the job very well.
Just found out I need a code to make the stereo work. Great. It's not the most important thing in the world to me, since I never listen to music when I'm driving, but I do like to sit in my car on my lunch break at work and listen to some cds. Unfortunately, my Honda stereo is just displaying "ERROR E" which apparently means it needs a unique code to make it work, which if I'm lucky, will be on a sticker inside the glovebox.
Honestly, I don't know why Honda felt the need to make their stereos theft-proof, since by the looks of it, the stereo in mine would not actually fit in any other car other than an EP3!
Oh well, onwards and upwards. Just had a quick run to the shops in it, revving up the quiet streets with the noise bouncing off the buildings, without the noise of other traffic to corrupt it was just brilliant. Annoyance at the radio aside, which I'm sure I will be able to sort in the morning, I'm in love
Honestly, I don't know why Honda felt the need to make their stereos theft-proof, since by the looks of it, the stereo in mine would not actually fit in any other car other than an EP3!
Oh well, onwards and upwards. Just had a quick run to the shops in it, revving up the quiet streets with the noise bouncing off the buildings, without the noise of other traffic to corrupt it was just brilliant. Annoyance at the radio aside, which I'm sure I will be able to sort in the morning, I'm in love
Baryonyx said:
Check the logbook and user guide too, the code might be in there. If not, a trip to an auto electrician should suffice. The one who looked at your Leon's lights, perhaps?
The 5 digit stereo code is on a sticker in the glovebox on some cars, so I will be looking for that. If it is not, you need the cars serial number, which you give to Honda and they can give you the stereo code. The serial number can be found by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes, reconnecting it then powering the stereo up while holding the track buttons for 1 and 6 down, it then displays on the screen.liner33 said:
I was tempted by these before i bought my Evo , still fancy one
After driving both I honestly think the EP3 is the car that's more fun to drive. Ok it won't match an Evo in any way on outright pace, but for enjoyment the Evo disappointed. And the EP3 running costs compared to an Evo are a nice bonus.DanDC5 said:
After driving both I honestly think the EP3 is the car that's more fun to drive. Ok it won't match an Evo in any way on outright pace, but for enjoyment the Evo disappointed. And the EP3 running costs compared to an Evo are a nice bonus.
Totally disagree. I loved my EP3, but its not on the same level as my Evo for performance or enjoyment IMO.Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff