Terrible situation having bought dodgy used car - advice?
Discussion
Hi chaps,
I have been royally stiffed and could use some advice.
Bought a low mileage MK1 Audi TT from a trader about three months ago.
To cut a long story short, the car started cutting out on me just as it was past the two month warranty period. I have changed the cambelt, the auxillery belt, MAF, N75, crankshaft sensor, airbox and diverter valve trying to get the car running right. It is better now, but still doesn;t feel great.
When I googled the traders name and 'complaint' the other day I found an article from a local newspaper describing how a few weeks after I bought the car, the trader was raided and equipment for clocking cars and forging service history was seized from him and some other garages who had formed a dodgy car ring.
I checked the VOSA website and the mileage tallies with the service history thankfully. However, something was definitely not right though so I took it to a mechanic who knows his TT's for an inspection. Within minutes he was able to tell the engine is not the right engine. Mine is a MK1, phase 2 TT and someone has fitted a phase 1 engine into it! They have also disabled the EMS light to try to hide the problems that this has caused. There could be any mileage on the engine and it is very tappety.
I have spoken to the police and they recommended taking to the trader to court and getting trading standards involved. Others have also been affected by this rogue it seems and some cases are being brought against him.
I spoke to consumer direct and a solicitor and they recommended rejecting the goods under the trade of goods and services act first of all.
I called the dealer and told him about the problems I have had with the car culminating in me discovering the car had been fitted with the wrong engine. He feigned ignorance and tried to make out I was just trying to pull a fast one as I had some problems with the car and it was out of warranty. I confronted him about the article and the police raid and he told me he was falsely accused and it was the 'other' garages who were involved, not him (yeah right!). I told him I wanted to reject the car as it clearly was not mechanically sound when he sold it me but he refused. He said if I wrote to him he would respond, but I would have to be quick as he is closing the company as his name has been blackened by the 'false' article!
I now feel like I am stuck.
I can either try and pursue him through court, but obviously it would be costly for a car that cost circa £8k and I don't know if I can pursue him personally if he folds the company. I think he is just acting as a sole trader though, so perhaps I can?
If I decide I don't want the expense of pursuing him legally, how do I get rid of the car?
I could never sell the car private as it would not be fair to the new buyer - I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
Alternatively I could trade the car in somewhere, but if I tell them it has a different engine in then kn-one will buy it, or if they do it will be for buttons. This also means that someone will end up with the car at some point. Whilst it is running better after the work I have done, it is still not great.
If I trade it in knowing the faults it has (as many people do) without disclosing them, it could be traced back to me and I could have a liability issue, even though I have not created the problem!
I feel totally trapped and don't know what to do. What would you do guys?
I have been royally stiffed and could use some advice.
Bought a low mileage MK1 Audi TT from a trader about three months ago.
To cut a long story short, the car started cutting out on me just as it was past the two month warranty period. I have changed the cambelt, the auxillery belt, MAF, N75, crankshaft sensor, airbox and diverter valve trying to get the car running right. It is better now, but still doesn;t feel great.
When I googled the traders name and 'complaint' the other day I found an article from a local newspaper describing how a few weeks after I bought the car, the trader was raided and equipment for clocking cars and forging service history was seized from him and some other garages who had formed a dodgy car ring.
I checked the VOSA website and the mileage tallies with the service history thankfully. However, something was definitely not right though so I took it to a mechanic who knows his TT's for an inspection. Within minutes he was able to tell the engine is not the right engine. Mine is a MK1, phase 2 TT and someone has fitted a phase 1 engine into it! They have also disabled the EMS light to try to hide the problems that this has caused. There could be any mileage on the engine and it is very tappety.
I have spoken to the police and they recommended taking to the trader to court and getting trading standards involved. Others have also been affected by this rogue it seems and some cases are being brought against him.
I spoke to consumer direct and a solicitor and they recommended rejecting the goods under the trade of goods and services act first of all.
I called the dealer and told him about the problems I have had with the car culminating in me discovering the car had been fitted with the wrong engine. He feigned ignorance and tried to make out I was just trying to pull a fast one as I had some problems with the car and it was out of warranty. I confronted him about the article and the police raid and he told me he was falsely accused and it was the 'other' garages who were involved, not him (yeah right!). I told him I wanted to reject the car as it clearly was not mechanically sound when he sold it me but he refused. He said if I wrote to him he would respond, but I would have to be quick as he is closing the company as his name has been blackened by the 'false' article!
I now feel like I am stuck.
I can either try and pursue him through court, but obviously it would be costly for a car that cost circa £8k and I don't know if I can pursue him personally if he folds the company. I think he is just acting as a sole trader though, so perhaps I can?
If I decide I don't want the expense of pursuing him legally, how do I get rid of the car?
I could never sell the car private as it would not be fair to the new buyer - I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
Alternatively I could trade the car in somewhere, but if I tell them it has a different engine in then kn-one will buy it, or if they do it will be for buttons. This also means that someone will end up with the car at some point. Whilst it is running better after the work I have done, it is still not great.
If I trade it in knowing the faults it has (as many people do) without disclosing them, it could be traced back to me and I could have a liability issue, even though I have not created the problem!
I feel totally trapped and don't know what to do. What would you do guys?
Well that's a real pickle! :|
I guess step one would be to get that letter written ASAP.. gather all the evidence that makes you feel the car is suspect including, if possible, an independent opinion from another garage or even better some kind of specialist on these cars and bundle it all off to him keeping copies for yourself. And then if he fails to respond, try and get him to court I guess :|
I guess step one would be to get that letter written ASAP.. gather all the evidence that makes you feel the car is suspect including, if possible, an independent opinion from another garage or even better some kind of specialist on these cars and bundle it all off to him keeping copies for yourself. And then if he fails to respond, try and get him to court I guess :|
margerison said:
Might be a bit late in the proceedings, but aren't traders supposed to give a 3 month warranty?
Not sure about warranties, but the presumption should be that any fault which develops within six months is the dealer's problem. They should offer to repair or replace the car, or prove that the fault occurred after it was sold. That is what UK consumer law states, anyway.If the engine swap wasn't logged to the DVLA, isn't it illegal?
Failing that, if you paid by credit card, take all the information (solicitors letters, citizens advice etc) to the credit card company and try and get the charges reversed maybe?
s
tty situation 
failing all that, go and ram the thing through his living room window and call it even.
Failing that, if you paid by credit card, take all the information (solicitors letters, citizens advice etc) to the credit card company and try and get the charges reversed maybe?
s
tty situation failing all that, go and ram the thing through his living room window and call it even. I take it you didn't check the engine number against the V5 when you bought the car?
Unfortunately, your options now are limited as the dealer will likely wind up the business you bought the car from, so legal action may be difficult.
Perhaps it will spontaneously combust and become an insurance statistic
Unfortunately, your options now are limited as the dealer will likely wind up the business you bought the car from, so legal action may be difficult.
Perhaps it will spontaneously combust and become an insurance statistic
I wouldn't sell it on we buy any car, they aren't stupid and likely hood they'll give you a crap price. The only way to dispose of the car is to stick it in an auction and hope for the best.
Now you know what is going on, you'll effectively be braking the law by miss-representing it if you don't tell people what you know.
Some (dodgy) dealers play on the fact that most people don't know that much about cars and don't know that much about the law. The reality is you can throw the book at them. There is quite a bit of regulation around car sales, Sale of Goods Act along with Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations. And trading standards take a very dim view of dodgy car dealers for obvious safety reasons. The good news is, you have more rights buying from a trader than a private seller or an auction.
I have been here before. Sorry to hear mate, it was a very bitter pill on many levels.
One of my first cars I walked straight into a scam, clocked, fake history, slapped some fancy alloys a leather interior, but the engine and mechanics made it a complete lemon. In fact, it was dangerous and he was an absolute c*nt for letting me drive it, let alone charting me money for it. I took him to court and won, but he did a runner. Thankfully it wasn't a lot of money but it gave me a sense of pride back
Revenge is sweet.
Read this first:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2010/...
Your first port of call should you wish to pursue this is trading standards (and I advise you do pursue it, this sh*t should not stand). I think you now have to go via the consumer direct. Lodge a complaint with them, will not be a police matter. Although the Police may be involved at a later stage if their is fraud involved. And it should get directed to your local trading standards officer. Sounds like they probably already have a file. If he is a frequent offender it could be he gets prosecuted.
You've spoken to him on the phone, which is fine, from now on make sure you do everything in writing and keep copies of all of it.
Have you still got a copy of the original advert, this is quite important. The most likely thing you'll be able to get him on is miss-leading advert if he is a trader. Fingers crossed you printed it or saved a PDF copy?
Here are your rights when buying a car from a dealer:
*of satisfactory quality, eg the windscreen should not be chipped
*fit for purpose, eg if you ask for a car that can tow a caravan it should be able to
*as described, eg the car should match its description given in conversation or in an advert
The main ones here are, of satisfactory quality and matching description.
So if it was advertised as very good condition then the dealer has a responsibility to ensure that the car was that before selling it. If they have sold a car without even realising the engine has been changed with the wrong one, I would suggest that is negligent.
If a car doesn’t meet any of these points, it is faulty and you will usually have the right to a:
*repair
*replacement
*refund
Your next letter should state that you are not happy with the car, you do not feel that it was of satisfactory quality and / or matched the description, after experiencing technical problems, you've spent x,y,z rectifying these and found out information about the car which you feel does not match the description you were sold. I would also state the conversation you had, time, name of person spoken, what was discussed and what was said, for the record.
I.e, futher to our conversation, I am writing formerly to complain. your response of x,y,z was not acceptable. These are the reasons I feel you are at fault and I would like your formal response as to what you will do to rectify the problem. Check with consumer direct on what time scales you sould give. But you should specify a time scale that you expect a response. Unfortunately I think its 14 days, which means he can wait till the last day before responding. Hopefully its 7. But check first because that could be used against you in court. You have to give them ample time to remedy your complaint.
Unless they are a complete and utter b*stard, this should sharpen him up, most people start co-operating when they realise you're clued up and will take things to the next level. Because they dont' want trading standard and police crawling all over them.
I would also mention that if you do not receive a timely and satisfactory response that you will be reporting this to trading standards to spur him on (but do it straight away anyway).
If you can send this via email, ensure that you put on the delivery flags so you can show he opened/received it. If you send by post, recorded / signed for. Keep receipts and make sure you get a copy of the signed for receipt too. Personally I sent via email and post. The email normally gets an immediate response but the recorded delivery just gives you evidence you've sent it and its been received.
It is buyer beware to be honest and I advise my mates taking a friendly mechanic or getting the AA/RAC to do an inspection if you're not confident yourself of thoroughly checking a used car. BUT, that said you don't expect traders to be ripping people off and those people should be taken to the cleaners every-time.
Good luck and feel free to contact me for more advice.
Start your complaint at consumer direct:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/Useful...
Buying a car, your rights:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandr...
Returning a faulty item:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandr...
Now you know what is going on, you'll effectively be braking the law by miss-representing it if you don't tell people what you know.
Some (dodgy) dealers play on the fact that most people don't know that much about cars and don't know that much about the law. The reality is you can throw the book at them. There is quite a bit of regulation around car sales, Sale of Goods Act along with Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations. And trading standards take a very dim view of dodgy car dealers for obvious safety reasons. The good news is, you have more rights buying from a trader than a private seller or an auction.
I have been here before. Sorry to hear mate, it was a very bitter pill on many levels.
One of my first cars I walked straight into a scam, clocked, fake history, slapped some fancy alloys a leather interior, but the engine and mechanics made it a complete lemon. In fact, it was dangerous and he was an absolute c*nt for letting me drive it, let alone charting me money for it. I took him to court and won, but he did a runner. Thankfully it wasn't a lot of money but it gave me a sense of pride back
Revenge is sweet. Read this first:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2010/...
Your first port of call should you wish to pursue this is trading standards (and I advise you do pursue it, this sh*t should not stand). I think you now have to go via the consumer direct. Lodge a complaint with them, will not be a police matter. Although the Police may be involved at a later stage if their is fraud involved. And it should get directed to your local trading standards officer. Sounds like they probably already have a file. If he is a frequent offender it could be he gets prosecuted.
You've spoken to him on the phone, which is fine, from now on make sure you do everything in writing and keep copies of all of it.
Have you still got a copy of the original advert, this is quite important. The most likely thing you'll be able to get him on is miss-leading advert if he is a trader. Fingers crossed you printed it or saved a PDF copy?
Here are your rights when buying a car from a dealer:
*of satisfactory quality, eg the windscreen should not be chipped
*fit for purpose, eg if you ask for a car that can tow a caravan it should be able to
*as described, eg the car should match its description given in conversation or in an advert
The main ones here are, of satisfactory quality and matching description.
So if it was advertised as very good condition then the dealer has a responsibility to ensure that the car was that before selling it. If they have sold a car without even realising the engine has been changed with the wrong one, I would suggest that is negligent.
If a car doesn’t meet any of these points, it is faulty and you will usually have the right to a:
*repair
*replacement
*refund
Your next letter should state that you are not happy with the car, you do not feel that it was of satisfactory quality and / or matched the description, after experiencing technical problems, you've spent x,y,z rectifying these and found out information about the car which you feel does not match the description you were sold. I would also state the conversation you had, time, name of person spoken, what was discussed and what was said, for the record.
I.e, futher to our conversation, I am writing formerly to complain. your response of x,y,z was not acceptable. These are the reasons I feel you are at fault and I would like your formal response as to what you will do to rectify the problem. Check with consumer direct on what time scales you sould give. But you should specify a time scale that you expect a response. Unfortunately I think its 14 days, which means he can wait till the last day before responding. Hopefully its 7. But check first because that could be used against you in court. You have to give them ample time to remedy your complaint.
Unless they are a complete and utter b*stard, this should sharpen him up, most people start co-operating when they realise you're clued up and will take things to the next level. Because they dont' want trading standard and police crawling all over them.
I would also mention that if you do not receive a timely and satisfactory response that you will be reporting this to trading standards to spur him on (but do it straight away anyway).
If you can send this via email, ensure that you put on the delivery flags so you can show he opened/received it. If you send by post, recorded / signed for. Keep receipts and make sure you get a copy of the signed for receipt too. Personally I sent via email and post. The email normally gets an immediate response but the recorded delivery just gives you evidence you've sent it and its been received.
It is buyer beware to be honest and I advise my mates taking a friendly mechanic or getting the AA/RAC to do an inspection if you're not confident yourself of thoroughly checking a used car. BUT, that said you don't expect traders to be ripping people off and those people should be taken to the cleaners every-time.
Good luck and feel free to contact me for more advice.
=====Links======
Start your complaint at consumer direct:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/Useful...
Buying a car, your rights:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandr...
Returning a faulty item:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandr...
Edited by nickythesaint on Wednesday 14th September 23:18
If you give the car to someone who knows what they are doing they should be able to sort it out.
There are many thousand of cars which have had engines changed (just as many as there are owners who forget to put oil in them), quite often the replacement engine will come from a similar but not identical model,' nothing to worry about if done correctly.
Just get it fixed, sounds like you have already Spent a lot on it, you won't get any of that back if you manage to return the car, which is very unlikely on an old used car 2' months after purchasing it.
There are many thousand of cars which have had engines changed (just as many as there are owners who forget to put oil in them), quite often the replacement engine will come from a similar but not identical model,' nothing to worry about if done correctly.
Just get it fixed, sounds like you have already Spent a lot on it, you won't get any of that back if you manage to return the car, which is very unlikely on an old used car 2' months after purchasing it.
h0b0 said:
How much is a replacement engine fitted? I bet it's not that bad and once it has an engine of known provenance you can sell it in good faith
You might be able to get the dealer to pay for or contribute to this. Worth getting a quote. Although, on a positive note, possibly an ideal opportunity to put a V10 in?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4515333/...
I have to agree that as you've already spent a fortune one getting various things sorted, you might as well just stick with the car, get the engine fully fixed by someone who knows what they're doing, then enjoy the car. It sounds like you're on a long and frustrating road to nowhere with this guy.
Or go down there and get terminator on his ass til he gives you some money.
Or go down there and get terminator on his ass til he gives you some money.
Just a side note here - lots suggest WBAC; does the thought not crop up that you may just be dumping the problem on someone elses lap.?
I personally could not do that and would have to take it on the chin, chalk it down to experience and get it fixed at my cost.
OP - seems like you have done everything arse about face unfortunately. Get someone in the know to diagnose and quote and then make a choice on fixing it or replacing the engine. Next time take a qualified mech and make all the checks about car id and trader etc prior to parting with your coins.
Oh, another thing; Audi TT?
I personally could not do that and would have to take it on the chin, chalk it down to experience and get it fixed at my cost.
OP - seems like you have done everything arse about face unfortunately. Get someone in the know to diagnose and quote and then make a choice on fixing it or replacing the engine. Next time take a qualified mech and make all the checks about car id and trader etc prior to parting with your coins.
Oh, another thing; Audi TT?
You're already done all the right things but rejecting the car isn't going to be as easy as it sounds.
The car having 'the wrong engine' is not enough to reject it - you'll have to demonstrate that the car is "unfit for the purpose" and that the trader knew this when they sold it to you (that's not going to be easy).
I think you'll have to take this one on the chin tbh - you can either invest a bit more money and get it working OR you can sell it on as-id and consider it a lesson learned.
You could follow the "if life gives you lemons" thing and take this dodgy engine as a sign you need to rebuild that engine with new and better bits and make it into a flying machine - or even replace the engine with something even fruitier!!
Best of luck
The car having 'the wrong engine' is not enough to reject it - you'll have to demonstrate that the car is "unfit for the purpose" and that the trader knew this when they sold it to you (that's not going to be easy).
I think you'll have to take this one on the chin tbh - you can either invest a bit more money and get it working OR you can sell it on as-id and consider it a lesson learned.
You could follow the "if life gives you lemons" thing and take this dodgy engine as a sign you need to rebuild that engine with new and better bits and make it into a flying machine - or even replace the engine with something even fruitier!!
Best of luck
Pig Skill said:
Just a side note here - lots suggest WBAC; does the thought not crop up that you may just be dumping the problem on someone elses lap.?
It's likely to end up in CarCraft (for they are the same company??) and anyone buying a car from them gets EVERYTHING they deserve...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff