Discussion
What an utterly fecking awful advert.
Some of the least flattering photos of a Veyron I've ever seen, though the subject matter being in such an awful colour combo of white with black wheels does it no favours. GT3 RS - yes. Veyron - no.
As for the text - it's not really an advert when you just copy and paste Wikipedia or Supercars.net is it?
Nope, my £1.4m would go here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2646927.htm
Here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2086451.htm
And here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2765182.htm
Some of the least flattering photos of a Veyron I've ever seen, though the subject matter being in such an awful colour combo of white with black wheels does it no favours. GT3 RS - yes. Veyron - no.
As for the text - it's not really an advert when you just copy and paste Wikipedia or Supercars.net is it?
Nope, my £1.4m would go here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2646927.htm
Here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2086451.htm
And here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2765182.htm
Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 19th September 08:10
Beefmeister said:
What an utterly fecking awful advert.
Some of the least flattering photos of a Veyron I've ever seen, though the subject matter being in such an awful colour combo of white with black wheels does it no favours. GT3 RS - yes. Veyron - no.
As for the text - it's not really an advert when you just copy and paste Wikipedia or Supercars.net is it?
Nope, my £1.4m would go here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2646927.htm
Here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2086451.htm
And here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2765182.htm
Totally agree. I was having this discussion with a friend of mine recently. He was at the point of putting up the 200,000Eu deposit for a Veyron, but felt like putting the money towards three or four more interesting things instead. It just doesn't move your heart as it should do. They've made a dull hypercar, and I'm not talking about the accleration.Some of the least flattering photos of a Veyron I've ever seen, though the subject matter being in such an awful colour combo of white with black wheels does it no favours. GT3 RS - yes. Veyron - no.
As for the text - it's not really an advert when you just copy and paste Wikipedia or Supercars.net is it?
Nope, my £1.4m would go here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2646927.htm
Here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2086451.htm
And here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2765182.htm
Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 19th September 08:10
Is £1.4 million the list price for a new Veyron these days? If so, the cars seem to absolutely haemhorrhage value, as (for example) Tom Hartley had a lovely purple one on sale up until quite recently, with a price that eventually dropped to £650k. (Anyone know if it was sold or withdrawn from sale?) Therefore, for anyone who can afford the preposterous servicing costs, the car is - relatively speaking - best bought second hand (with the clear understanding that it'll presumably have to be either kept or sold on at a loss). The problem with buying second hand though is that many original owners lost all common sense when speccing terrible interiors and exteriors!
The problem with the Veyron - if indeed it is a problem - is that VW succeeded too well, as it's so good at virtually everything that it's a serious argument against having a collection of different cars. Obviously I haven't driven one, but has anyone on here had a go? Is it really as dull and bloated as the purists say? Is it intimidating? I do remember reading that Gordon Murray - a vocal critic of the project - was pleasantly surprised when he drove a Veyron to discover that it handled far better than he thought. The three cars listed in Beefmeister's post are individually wonderfully, especially the Zonda. But the Veyron can destroy any one of them in terms of straight line speed, and could probably keep up to some extent through the corners. Then it becomes a matter of skill and enjoyment weighed against engineering efficiency.
Many years ago EVO did a feature with a Veyron, Carrera GT, Zonda and Enzo; the owners / drivers of those vehicles are experienced at driving such vehicles, rather than being dreamers like me. I do remember the feature said that the Veyron was able to keep up through the corners with the Enzo, but while the Ferrari driver sensed that his car was near the limit, the Bugatti driver was barely trying. However, this extends into the usual 'supercars shouldn't be easy to drive' debate, for the Veyron was in that case probably flattering the driver as the car's electronics and engineering were doing a lot of the work.
I think the Veyron is the ultimate poseur's car, in that there's little if anything that can beat it in terms of statistics. It's an engineering masterpiece, and a triumph of brute force determination - but is it a great car? I don't know, but if I had the money, I'd love to find out.
The problem with the Veyron - if indeed it is a problem - is that VW succeeded too well, as it's so good at virtually everything that it's a serious argument against having a collection of different cars. Obviously I haven't driven one, but has anyone on here had a go? Is it really as dull and bloated as the purists say? Is it intimidating? I do remember reading that Gordon Murray - a vocal critic of the project - was pleasantly surprised when he drove a Veyron to discover that it handled far better than he thought. The three cars listed in Beefmeister's post are individually wonderfully, especially the Zonda. But the Veyron can destroy any one of them in terms of straight line speed, and could probably keep up to some extent through the corners. Then it becomes a matter of skill and enjoyment weighed against engineering efficiency.
Many years ago EVO did a feature with a Veyron, Carrera GT, Zonda and Enzo; the owners / drivers of those vehicles are experienced at driving such vehicles, rather than being dreamers like me. I do remember the feature said that the Veyron was able to keep up through the corners with the Enzo, but while the Ferrari driver sensed that his car was near the limit, the Bugatti driver was barely trying. However, this extends into the usual 'supercars shouldn't be easy to drive' debate, for the Veyron was in that case probably flattering the driver as the car's electronics and engineering were doing a lot of the work.
I think the Veyron is the ultimate poseur's car, in that there's little if anything that can beat it in terms of statistics. It's an engineering masterpiece, and a triumph of brute force determination - but is it a great car? I don't know, but if I had the money, I'd love to find out.
The_Doc said:
I was having this discussion with a friend of mine recently. He was at the point of putting up the 200,000Eu deposit for a Veyron, but felt like putting the money towards three or four more interesting things instead.
Surely getting a Veyron isn't an either/or decision - it's something you have as well as the F40, Enzo etc.If you are having to sacrifice other cars to get it there is no way you can afford to run one IMO.
I have been thinking about what the Veyron stands for since it came out and what role it would play in my fantasy garage. I do not think it is an "Engineers" car as an engineer should design simplicity not complexity. It is not a "Driver"s" car as it is not the quickest or most involving to drive on a track (so I have been told).
So what is it then? Well, it can travel at great speed in a straight line so it it is best suited to motorways. Does this make it a barge? Well, no because of it's size it is not as practical as a BMW/Mercedes barge. Also, taking into account the speed limits enforced on most motorways around the world it can't even travel at it's full potential.
This lead me to the conclusion that, if money was no option, it would be a decision between a Veyron and a Golf. And, due to the inconvenience of having to send the Bugatti out for extended periods of time to service it I may possibly end up with the golf. What does this mean of the Veyron then? It is IMO the "Emperors New Clothes" of the car world. The Zonda, that's a real car!
So what is it then? Well, it can travel at great speed in a straight line so it it is best suited to motorways. Does this make it a barge? Well, no because of it's size it is not as practical as a BMW/Mercedes barge. Also, taking into account the speed limits enforced on most motorways around the world it can't even travel at it's full potential.
This lead me to the conclusion that, if money was no option, it would be a decision between a Veyron and a Golf. And, due to the inconvenience of having to send the Bugatti out for extended periods of time to service it I may possibly end up with the golf. What does this mean of the Veyron then? It is IMO the "Emperors New Clothes" of the car world. The Zonda, that's a real car!
70proof said:
it was meant to be a demonstration of what the vw group could do, if it wanted to, at any cost.....
Which cost?Normal car economics used to derive the sale price.
Development cost + marketing + ("number of units" * manufacturing cost) / "number of units" = unit cost
"number of units" + profit = Sale price
Porsche 959 - broke these rules, such that they lost money on each unit sold.
Bugatti decided that no-one could afford a 3 tonne 1000Hp car, so just wrote off almost all develpoment cost. The million dollar/Euro price will just about make a profit on the cost to build and market. Bugatti also managed to negineer it to last 10-20 years which must have made the engineers's job exponentially more difficult.
Edited by rs48635 on Monday 19th September 17:18
DayTrader said:
The_Doc said:
I was having this discussion with a friend of mine recently. He was at the point of putting up the 200,000Eu deposit for a Veyron, but felt like putting the money towards three or four more interesting things instead.
Surely getting a Veyron isn't an either/or decision - it's something you have as well as the F40, Enzo etc.If you are having to sacrifice other cars to get it there is no way you can afford to run one IMO.
We got on to mulling Koeniggsegg vs Pagani vs others.
BelfastBoy said:
Tom Hartley had a lovely purple one on sale up until quite recently, with a price that eventually dropped to £650k. (Anyone know if it was sold or withdrawn from sale?)
I think that one is in Germany now, i've seen photos of one that looked the same there that were only taken recently.ETA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/supercarsize/60431595...
Edited by Penfolds on Monday 19th September 21:04
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