Can I get an opinion on the E36?
Discussion
I know there's not a lot of information in the ad, but do you reckon this is worth following up?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3211017.htm
If so, what questions would you be asking?
ETA sorry, title should read 'this E36'
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3211017.htm
If so, what questions would you be asking?
ETA sorry, title should read 'this E36'
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 20th September 12:12
Thanks.
I was going to ask about the rear arches. How big an issue is it ... are we talking MOT failure and uneconomical to repair or is it more of a cosmetic thing?
Coincidentally, I found this check list elsewhere in case anyone's interested:
- tired suspension components, cluncking, knocking and suppleness on the test drive. Plus worn suspension bushes (clonks, wandering)
-broken rear springs are a 'common' fault, cheap and easy to fix though.
- ensure the gears don't crunch and that the lever has a good feel with some resistance.
- interior trim can be flimsy .... make sure everything is well screwed on and in its place.
- seats are very hard wearing, any signs of tatty ness etc - indicate abuse, the seats should be near enough as in new condition.
- check that the engine pulls strongly throughout the rev range.
- engine should seem reasonably quite and smooth and free from any alarming rattles. The 6cyl engines do have a distinct minor 'ticking' from the injectors though as they fire.
- check that the temperature gauge get to 1/2 way within 3 or 4 minutes from cold, if not you need a new thermostat.
- check for suitabe hot air from the dashboard and footwell vents, a lack of it will probably indicate an air lock within the cooling system.
- check for rust around the wheel arches and bootlid area.
- brakes should be in decent shape, free from judder and stop the car well. Check the disc surfaces for heavy scoring/wear issues.
-Nikasil blocks changed in ’98, so look for evidence of that being addressed if it’s a pre-changeover car
I was going to ask about the rear arches. How big an issue is it ... are we talking MOT failure and uneconomical to repair or is it more of a cosmetic thing?
Coincidentally, I found this check list elsewhere in case anyone's interested:
- tired suspension components, cluncking, knocking and suppleness on the test drive. Plus worn suspension bushes (clonks, wandering)
-broken rear springs are a 'common' fault, cheap and easy to fix though.
- ensure the gears don't crunch and that the lever has a good feel with some resistance.
- interior trim can be flimsy .... make sure everything is well screwed on and in its place.
- seats are very hard wearing, any signs of tatty ness etc - indicate abuse, the seats should be near enough as in new condition.
- check that the engine pulls strongly throughout the rev range.
- engine should seem reasonably quite and smooth and free from any alarming rattles. The 6cyl engines do have a distinct minor 'ticking' from the injectors though as they fire.
- check that the temperature gauge get to 1/2 way within 3 or 4 minutes from cold, if not you need a new thermostat.
- check for suitabe hot air from the dashboard and footwell vents, a lack of it will probably indicate an air lock within the cooling system.
- check for rust around the wheel arches and bootlid area.
- brakes should be in decent shape, free from judder and stop the car well. Check the disc surfaces for heavy scoring/wear issues.
-Nikasil blocks changed in ’98, so look for evidence of that being addressed if it’s a pre-changeover car
Chris71 said:
Thanks.
I was going to ask about the rear arches. How big an issue is it ... are we talking MOT failure and uneconomical to repair or is it more of a cosmetic thing?
Coincidentally, I found this check list elsewhere in case anyone's interested:
I was going to ask about the rear arches. How big an issue is it ... are we talking MOT failure and uneconomical to repair or is it more of a cosmetic thing?
Coincidentally, I found this check list elsewhere in case anyone's interested:
Chris71 said:
- tired suspension components, cluncking, knocking and suppleness on the test drive. Plus worn suspension bushes (clonks, wandering)
Clunking sounds from the rear end tend to be the shock mounts which seem to wear out every 20K~30K miles if they're not upgraded, not very expensive to put right.Chris71 said:
-broken rear springs are a 'common' fault, cheap and easy to fix though.
Agreed. Don't be surprised to see the car sitting lower on the right hand side compared to the left hand side [when viewed from behind], it's like that by design (BMW made the left hand side of the suspension slightly higher to counteract the weight of a driver in the left hand seat of LHD models. When it came to RHD models, they didn't bother to alter the suspension set-up the opposite way as it would have cost more money).Chris71 said:
- ensure the gears don't crunch and that the lever has a good feel with some resistance.
It's quite common for the gear lever not to centre itself properly due to weakened centring springs inside the gearbox (not easy to fix!), most owners just get used to moving the lever more.Chris71 said:
- interior trim can be flimsy .... make sure everything is well screwed on and in its place.
Earlier cars suffer more than later cars (and not just because they are older), but these cars are now at least 12 years old don't forget. Also, don't be fooled into thinking trim clips and screws are a lot cheaper on ebay than they are from BMW themselves because that's rarely true!, BMW charge very little for most of these small parts believe it or not. Chris71 said:
- seats are very hard wearing, any signs of tatty ness etc - indicate abuse, the seats should be near enough as in new condition.
You'll be lucky to find seats in "as new" condition!, especially the leather seats. It's not so much that they get abused (not really sure how you actually "abuse" a car seat), it's more that they get neglected over the years. The leather seats require feeding a couple of times a year to keep the leather soft, supple and from drying out. Most owners just don't bother doing it so the leather dries out and gets cracks and creases. Also, the side bolsters are renowned for wearing away due to people rubbing against them as they get in and out of the car (especially true for the sports seats and the Vaders).Chris71 said:
- check that the engine pulls strongly throughout the rev range.
- engine should seem reasonably quite and smooth and free from any alarming rattles. The 6cyl engines do have a distinct minor 'ticking' from the injectors though as they fire.
The engines are known for crankshaft sensor failures, camshaft sensor failures, sticking idle control valves (causes erratic idling), occasional MAF problems, cracks/splits in some of the hard plastic intake pipes resulting in vacuum leaks. - engine should seem reasonably quite and smooth and free from any alarming rattles. The 6cyl engines do have a distinct minor 'ticking' from the injectors though as they fire.
Chris71 said:
- check that the temperature gauge get to 1/2 way within 3 or 4 minutes from cold, if not you need a new thermostat.
Plastic impellers on older style water pumps are known to disintegrate, radiators are known to split, expansion tanks are known to split and if the engine mounts are worn, the viscous fan has a nasty habit of hitting the surrounding shroud damaging the fan blades and shroud. Chris71 said:
- check for suitabe hot air from the dashboard and footwell vents, a lack of it will probably indicate an air lock within the cooling system.
The cooling system can be a pig of a job to bleed properly (even BMW themselves struggle sometimes!), but a lack of air flow from the vents could also be down to a blocked up pollen filter (it's quite remarkable how much difference a clean filter can make!).The digital climate control can throw a wobbly and it will either be down to a faulty final stage resistor (known as a hedgehog), or a problem with a capacitor on one of the boards inside the control unit. There's an on-line guide to fixing the climate control, including how to replace the capacitor, but it may only be a dry joint that needs re-soldering on the capacitors legs (this was the fix on My car).
Chris71 said:
- check for rust around the wheel arches and bootlid area.
Check also around the jacking pads at either end of the sills.Chris71 said:
- brakes should be in decent shape, free from judder and stop the car well. Check the disc surfaces for heavy scoring/wear issues.
The rear brake pipes are known to corrode and it's an expensive job to replace them as the fuel tank has to be dropped down. Also, ABS sensors are known to play up (if the ABS and Traction control lights are both on constantly, it's most likely to be a rear wheel ABS sensor either dirty or faulty. Chris71 said:
-Nikasil blocks changed in ’98, so look for evidence of that being addressed if it’s a pre-changeover car
Not all Nikasil engines suffer problems, there's no guarantee either way with them (and don't believe anyone who says: "If it hasn't happened by now, it never will", because cars are still suffering bore wear problems due to damage caused "back in the day"). Alusil engines are the safer option and there's a guide on-line as to how to tell a nikasil engine from an alusil.High oil consumption need not be down to bore wear or valve seals, there's a crankcase vent unit (CCV) fitted underneath the intake manifold that gets blocked up over the years and ends up pumping oil into the engine where it gets burnt. Have a look here for a great DIY concerning the idle control valve (ICV and the CCV), along with many other E36 issues, it's well worth reading: http://www.dvatp.com/bmw/diy/icv_ccv/
Added to this information:
If the fuel gauge suddenly stops working, it's almost certain to be a wire that come away from it's soldered terminal on the underside of the fuel sender. Don't be fooled into being told you need a new fuel sender, you usually just need to solder the wire back on.
Brake circuit failure warnings on the OBC tend to be the brake light switch on the brake pedal failing.
Also, the wiring for the rear lights runs through a plastic shroud by one of the boot hinges and these can rub together and fray causing electrical failures, bulb out warnings and in a worse case scenario, a fire.
The ignition switch can wear away and you'll find the key just rotates round and round endlessly.
And I'm sure there are numerous other things that I haven't covered but it's all readily available to find on-line.
Plenty of things to look for there.
It's not cheap so I'd expect it to be pretty much "as new" (allowing for reasonable age related wear) at that mileage.
My main concern would be it being "under serviced" i.e. not having regular oil/coolant/fluid changes in terms of years but only on miles.
They are pretty robust cars but there are plenty around so no need to jump into anything.
The arches are just cosmetic and you may find rust bubbling up at the bottom of the bootlid or at the body lip where it meets the boot.
I love mine, and as desperate as I am for a change then can't justify it when I've got a perfectly good car that does everything I need and puts a big smile on my face when I drive it.
It's not cheap so I'd expect it to be pretty much "as new" (allowing for reasonable age related wear) at that mileage.
My main concern would be it being "under serviced" i.e. not having regular oil/coolant/fluid changes in terms of years but only on miles.
They are pretty robust cars but there are plenty around so no need to jump into anything.
The arches are just cosmetic and you may find rust bubbling up at the bottom of the bootlid or at the body lip where it meets the boot.
I love mine, and as desperate as I am for a change then can't justify it when I've got a perfectly good car that does everything I need and puts a big smile on my face when I drive it.
GBB said:
It's not cheap so I'd expect it to be pretty much "as new" (allowing for reasonable age related wear) at that mileage.
Fair point. I must admit, E36s seem to have got quite a bit cheaper since I last looked and I didn't realise that's now quite a high price for a non-Sport model. All the better for people buying, I guess...I have an E36 328i Saloon and can offer the following comments:
Rear springs do break (mine have done so twice in 3 years), but are cheap and easy enough to DIY replace...
Clunking from the rear, though, is likely to be rear upper Z suspension bushes which can be a real ballache to change...
The M52 engines do not tolerate overheating AT ALL...in fact, if they are overheated and the headgasket needs replaced the engine is likely to be scrap due to the alloy block expanding and releasing the thread inserts for the headbolts! Hence it is essential to ensure the cooling system is properly maintained...As was mentioned rads to burst and warp, expansion bottles (on the side of the rad) do crack and leak and waterpumps do fail...also the heater link hoses at the back of the engine is prone to failing.
However, there are lots of stories about bleeding issues...all essentially rubbish...so long as the car is on the level or the front is higher than the rear the procedure is straightforward...
The E36 is a great everyday car...mine has been very cheap to run...It's had oil changes, a set of spark plugs, brake fluid and pads and coolant changes along with tyres as regular servicing items...Other than this I've had to change the alternator (£25 s/h and an hours' work), the coolant level sensor, the fuel pump, the cam cover gasket (to cure an oil leak and rough idling) and a set of front brake discs in 60,000 miles...
Not bad I reckon...
Rear springs do break (mine have done so twice in 3 years), but are cheap and easy enough to DIY replace...
Clunking from the rear, though, is likely to be rear upper Z suspension bushes which can be a real ballache to change...
The M52 engines do not tolerate overheating AT ALL...in fact, if they are overheated and the headgasket needs replaced the engine is likely to be scrap due to the alloy block expanding and releasing the thread inserts for the headbolts! Hence it is essential to ensure the cooling system is properly maintained...As was mentioned rads to burst and warp, expansion bottles (on the side of the rad) do crack and leak and waterpumps do fail...also the heater link hoses at the back of the engine is prone to failing.
However, there are lots of stories about bleeding issues...all essentially rubbish...so long as the car is on the level or the front is higher than the rear the procedure is straightforward...
The E36 is a great everyday car...mine has been very cheap to run...It's had oil changes, a set of spark plugs, brake fluid and pads and coolant changes along with tyres as regular servicing items...Other than this I've had to change the alternator (£25 s/h and an hours' work), the coolant level sensor, the fuel pump, the cam cover gasket (to cure an oil leak and rough idling) and a set of front brake discs in 60,000 miles...
Not bad I reckon...
Chris71 said:
Good to know.
One of the other ads I've seen mentioned the rear 'chatter plate' was a bit noisy. Any idea what that's referring to?
Can't say I'm aware of what the "chatter plates" might be or why they would be noisy (if it's the advert I think it is then it seems to be referring to the rear brakes but the only plates on those should be the protection plates behind the discs and they shouldn't rattle).One of the other ads I've seen mentioned the rear 'chatter plate' was a bit noisy. Any idea what that's referring to?
Also, not looking to start an argument with anyone but clunking at the rear end (over bumps), is more likely to be the rear shock mounts than anything else, it's a very common problem on BMW's.
I just picked up an e36 320 coupe for £900, I probably paid a couple hundred too much for it if I am honest but has done 106k miles and reg'd in 1993, so older and more tired than that one.
Mine was pretty sound when I inspected it, bounced each corner of the car and no obviously dodgy sings on the suspension. Engine started fine, no worrying knocks, ticks or noises from the engine and no blue smoke. Tested all the electrics which worked bar driver window which needs a new motor. Test drive showed no knocking noises or problems with the suspension and engined pulled strong in every gear. Brakes also had some life in the discs and paperwork showed fairly recent new discs.
Mine has very slight bubbling on the rear arches but nothing to worry about.
I took a few 328's out when I tested, you'll be able to hear/feel if there are suspension problems. I tested a few very rough ones.
Once mine was inspected by a specialist, there were a few problems. Has a cracked rear spring, but they're about £30 from europarts, plus whatever your local mech will charge you in labour. And a few other minors bits and bobs. All fairly cheap to sort out.
Couple of things a specialist told me to look out for. Check the last MOT doc for any signs of rust on the rear brake pipes. These go under the petrol tank and if they're rusted its an MOT failure. And its very expensive to replace, not the pipes but because they're under the tank they're not easy to get too. With my car it was almost a write off but thankfully the rusting was just surface / superficial.
The other common fault is the VANOS lifters / pretensioners. Listening out for a fairly loud ticking when you start. Mine ticks after a good spanking but mechanics have assured me its nothing to worry about.
The other common fault is juddery / slipping clutch when hot, but with that low mileage shouldn't be an issue.
Here is a good check list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
This is quite a helpful website too:
http://www.bimmerdiy.com/dir/e36
If you sources the parts yourself or have a look on europarts, its not as expensive as you might think to get common problems sorted out, provided you use a decent independant / specialist rather than a BMW dealer. Provided the engines have been looked after, they're rock solid for 200k and beyond.
Looks like a nice car but I don't think its worth £1,500. £1,000 - 1,250 is probably about right. Def worth a viewing.
Mine was pretty sound when I inspected it, bounced each corner of the car and no obviously dodgy sings on the suspension. Engine started fine, no worrying knocks, ticks or noises from the engine and no blue smoke. Tested all the electrics which worked bar driver window which needs a new motor. Test drive showed no knocking noises or problems with the suspension and engined pulled strong in every gear. Brakes also had some life in the discs and paperwork showed fairly recent new discs.
Mine has very slight bubbling on the rear arches but nothing to worry about.
I took a few 328's out when I tested, you'll be able to hear/feel if there are suspension problems. I tested a few very rough ones.
Once mine was inspected by a specialist, there were a few problems. Has a cracked rear spring, but they're about £30 from europarts, plus whatever your local mech will charge you in labour. And a few other minors bits and bobs. All fairly cheap to sort out.
Couple of things a specialist told me to look out for. Check the last MOT doc for any signs of rust on the rear brake pipes. These go under the petrol tank and if they're rusted its an MOT failure. And its very expensive to replace, not the pipes but because they're under the tank they're not easy to get too. With my car it was almost a write off but thankfully the rusting was just surface / superficial.
The other common fault is the VANOS lifters / pretensioners. Listening out for a fairly loud ticking when you start. Mine ticks after a good spanking but mechanics have assured me its nothing to worry about.
The other common fault is juddery / slipping clutch when hot, but with that low mileage shouldn't be an issue.
Here is a good check list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
This is quite a helpful website too:
http://www.bimmerdiy.com/dir/e36
If you sources the parts yourself or have a look on europarts, its not as expensive as you might think to get common problems sorted out, provided you use a decent independant / specialist rather than a BMW dealer. Provided the engines have been looked after, they're rock solid for 200k and beyond.
Looks like a nice car but I don't think its worth £1,500. £1,000 - 1,250 is probably about right. Def worth a viewing.
Edited by nickythesaint on Friday 23 September 08:01
+1 on the brake pipes, I'd forgotten about those which I've had done.
I paid for an inspection which didn't spot them, and it promptly failed the MOT 4 weeks later. My Dad had the same problem on his convertible.
If you can find a specialist then they can do the job without removing the tank. I think my Dad's specialist charged 5 hrs labour, parts costs are minimal. I paid £200 all in but that was because they'd quoted a price before realising how long it would take.
Would probably worth checking the MOT history on the VOSA database to see evidence of whether it had been flagged at some point (and hopefully fixed saving you a bill).
I paid for an inspection which didn't spot them, and it promptly failed the MOT 4 weeks later. My Dad had the same problem on his convertible.
If you can find a specialist then they can do the job without removing the tank. I think my Dad's specialist charged 5 hrs labour, parts costs are minimal. I paid £200 all in but that was because they'd quoted a price before realising how long it would take.
Would probably worth checking the MOT history on the VOSA database to see evidence of whether it had been flagged at some point (and hopefully fixed saving you a bill).
4rephill said:
Chris71 said:
Good to know.
One of the other ads I've seen mentioned the rear 'chatter plate' was a bit noisy. Any idea what that's referring to?
Also, not looking to start an argument with anyone but clunking at the rear end (over bumps), is more likely to be the rear shock mounts than anything else, it's a very common problem on BMW's.One of the other ads I've seen mentioned the rear 'chatter plate' was a bit noisy. Any idea what that's referring to?
nickythesaint said:
I just picked up an e36 320 coupe for £900, I probably paid a couple hundred too much for it if I am honest but has done 106k miles and reg'd in 1993, so older and more tired than that one.
Mine was pretty sound when I inspected it, bounced each corner of the car and no obviously dodgy sings on the suspension. Engine started fine, no worrying knocks, ticks or noises from the engine and no blue smoke. Tested all the electrics which worked bar driver window which needs a new motor. Test drive showed no knocking noises or problems with the suspension and engined pulled strong in every gear. Brakes also had some life in the discs and paperwork showed fairly recent new discs.
Mine has very slight bubbling on the rear arches but nothing to worry about.
I took a few 328's out when I tested, you'll be able to hear/feel if there are suspension problems. I tested a few very rough ones.
Once mine was inspected by a specialist, there were a few problems. Has a cracked rear spring, but they're about £30 from europarts, plus whatever your local mech will charge you in labour. And a few other minors bits and bobs. All fairly cheap to sort out.
Couple of things a specialist told me to look out for. Check the last MOT doc for any signs of rust on the rear brake pipes. These go under the petrol tank and if they're rusted its an MOT failure. And its very expensive to replace, not the pipes but because they're under the tank they're not easy to get too. With my car it was almost a write off but thankfully the rusting was just surface / superficial.
The other common fault is the VANOS lifters / pretensioners. Listening out for a fairly loud ticking when you start. Mine ticks after a good spanking but mechanics have assured me its nothing to worry about.
The other common fault is juddery / slipping clutch when hot, but with that low mileage shouldn't be an issue.
Here is a good check list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
This is quite a helpful website too:
http://www.bimmerdiy.com/dir/e36
If you sources the parts yourself or have a look on europarts, its not as expensive as you might think to get common problems sorted out, provided you use a decent independant / specialist rather than a BMW dealer. Provided the engines have been looked after, they're rock solid for 200k and beyond.
Looks like a nice car but I don't think its worth £1,500. £1,000 - 1,250 is probably about right. Def worth a viewing.
Excellent post, many thanks.Mine was pretty sound when I inspected it, bounced each corner of the car and no obviously dodgy sings on the suspension. Engine started fine, no worrying knocks, ticks or noises from the engine and no blue smoke. Tested all the electrics which worked bar driver window which needs a new motor. Test drive showed no knocking noises or problems with the suspension and engined pulled strong in every gear. Brakes also had some life in the discs and paperwork showed fairly recent new discs.
Mine has very slight bubbling on the rear arches but nothing to worry about.
I took a few 328's out when I tested, you'll be able to hear/feel if there are suspension problems. I tested a few very rough ones.
Once mine was inspected by a specialist, there were a few problems. Has a cracked rear spring, but they're about £30 from europarts, plus whatever your local mech will charge you in labour. And a few other minors bits and bobs. All fairly cheap to sort out.
Couple of things a specialist told me to look out for. Check the last MOT doc for any signs of rust on the rear brake pipes. These go under the petrol tank and if they're rusted its an MOT failure. And its very expensive to replace, not the pipes but because they're under the tank they're not easy to get too. With my car it was almost a write off but thankfully the rusting was just surface / superficial.
The other common fault is the VANOS lifters / pretensioners. Listening out for a fairly loud ticking when you start. Mine ticks after a good spanking but mechanics have assured me its nothing to worry about.
The other common fault is juddery / slipping clutch when hot, but with that low mileage shouldn't be an issue.
Here is a good check list:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cac...
This is quite a helpful website too:
http://www.bimmerdiy.com/dir/e36
If you sources the parts yourself or have a look on europarts, its not as expensive as you might think to get common problems sorted out, provided you use a decent independant / specialist rather than a BMW dealer. Provided the engines have been looked after, they're rock solid for 200k and beyond.
Looks like a nice car but I don't think its worth £1,500. £1,000 - 1,250 is probably about right. Def worth a viewing.
Most of the other cars I've shortlisted appear to be around South West London, so I'm probably going to head in that direction for a tour of Surrey's second hand car dealerships tomorrow, but I'll try and drop in on the one I linked to originally.
I'd prefer a 328, but I've seen several 323s advertised that seem to be better value. That'd leave me with a few quid for an old 325 manifold out of a scrapyard.
A M50 manifold is NOT a direct replacement for an M52 one...There are several modifications to make to get the hoses, pipes and throttle body to mount properly.
If you go and visit www.bimmerforums.co.uk and search for a user by the name of Alpina527 you will find he sells a complete kit for £500 ish plus a manifold...
If you go and visit www.bimmerforums.co.uk and search for a user by the name of Alpina527 you will find he sells a complete kit for £500 ish plus a manifold...
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