RE: PH Carpool: BMW E61 M5 Touring
RE: PH Carpool: BMW E61 M5 Touring
Friday 23rd September 2011

PH Carpool: BMW E61 M5 Touring

From RS6 Avant to M5 Touring. Want to know how they compare? Read on...




Any PHer would have been thrilled to drive 300 miles in a 510bhp/550lbft Audi estate and then switch seats to drive the M5 Tourer for another 300 miles in the opposite direction. For Eddie Cain (ecain63), however, it was a sad time...

****

Eddie...
Eddie...
"Two years I had my barge. Two years of pure pleasure and thrills. It worked as a fantastic owner's club car, a brilliant holiday hack and an even better dog-mobile. With some light chassis tweaks here and there it really was an amazing beast.

"The thing with the RS was that the power and torque was always available regardless of what gear or how low down in the rev range you were. Just press the pedal and off you went with a deep rumble and a firm push in the back. You never felt like it was being stressed by all this oomph, it was merely flexing its muscles a little bit and kicking its heels back as it launched you off toward the horizon. Fuel economy wasn't bad either. 550 miles was possible from a full tank at 70mph, returning a peak of 32mpg from time to time."

...the BMW...
...the BMW...
Having dropped the Audi off with its new owner in Leeds, Eddie made the trip back down to Bournemouth in the BMW. Initially he wasn't wild about it, but soon got the hang of the need to press-on to get the best out of the V10. Then winter arrived...

"BMWs have never been great in the snow, or on ice for that matter." He says. "It's only really due to the increased availability of winter tyres that Bavarian motor owners have been saved from complete vehicular abandonment during the winter months. Predictably, the Audi was incredible in the snow. Two Christmases in Scotland proved that the Lord Of The Rings was also the Lord Of The Roads when the things got a bit white and friction-free. When the snow dumped on Poole and Bournemouth I took the M5 out anyway. As an experienced Snow and Ice Driving Instructor I felt confident that I could take the M5 out and complete the undulating four-mile journey to work without issue. How wrong I was! The problem with snow is that you don't want to make any sudden movements on it and any motions need to be calculated and have a backup plan. You cannot do this with the SMG 'box. No clutch pedal means no control; it's either ON or OFF. My journey to work was fun but I quickly made the decision to do it only once."

...and its predecessor
...and its predecessor
By February, though, he was getting the hang of the M5 and noted that the brakes resisted fade far better than the Brembo items on his previous Audi. But then...

"On a standard 30mph trawl into Bournemouth I felt the car shudder pulling away from the traffic lights. It did it a couple of times on that journey and the immediate reaction was pure panic. Rumours of a £2700 bill for a new clutch ran around my head along with memories of the fear I felt worrying about the RS6's slush box that weighed in at £7k per refit. I was lucky with my RS and the original box is now well past 100k miles with its current owner thanks to regular maintenance and hypochondria. I intended to remain on the green side of skint and pressed on to investigate exactly what caused the dreaded, wallet emptying sensation."


The car was fixed in March and since then there has been nothing untoward to report. "I have adjusted a couple of my own practises to make my inputs more efficient. Generally getting to know the car's workings is also helping to improve my ability as far as handling and performance is concerned. Regular Sunday Services, Breakfast meets and Pub Clubs also keep the car fit and exercised, as well as in the eye of the lens. It's amazing how such a dull-looking car can capture the imagination of people of all backgrounds just by the presence of an M badge or PH sticker."

Eddie toyed with the idea of changing the back boxes in January but conflicting advice from PHers changed his mind and he stuck with the standard voice of BMW's own brand. "I searched the US forums as well and the general consensus there was to make it as loud as possible, which really isn't what the E61 is about. Tiff Needell hit the nail on the head back in 2005 when he tested the E60 M5. The word 'diesel' stuck in many an owner's head and even though i didn't want Satan to be screaming from the rear of my car I wasn't that impressed by the rattling, agricultural noise that came from the car at low revs. This weekend Phelix and i will be taking the trip over to Hayward and Scott to get some custom boxes fitted."


So, can he compare the M to the RS? "No. Not really. Although they both fill the same boots as a performance family cruiser, load-lugger, and dog transporter they do it in very different ways. The RS will literally pull the horizon toward you, but show it a slightly unusual corner and the car is off balance and having to slow down to find its footing. Off the line the RS also had the M pipped with the Quattro system and all that torque, but thanks to the M5's gearbox and drive system, as soon as you get above 40mph there is no doubt that the M is streets ahead in terms of real performance. There is so much still to learn and as long as the 'Ring remains a public playground I've got a dream to realise in taking the beast back to its natural home."

Has he had any thoughts yet about what to move to from the M5? "Kind of. Usually, when you least expect it priorities change and you find yourself in the seat of something quite different and at the beginning of another steep learning curve! Atom 300 perhaps?"

Author
Discussion

danyeates

Original Poster:

7,248 posts

252 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Eddie's famous! Good write up smile

Edited by danyeates on Friday 23 September 08:29

drchris

318 posts

210 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Approaching winter tyre season again... mine was a joke last year (until I got the winters on!)

Nice write up.

y2blade

56,320 posts

245 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
mmmmmmmm cloud9

rob.e

2,863 posts

308 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Great write up. Fast estates are very cool.

thumbup


Any reason why you chose the M5 over a newer C6 RS6?

sam303

428 posts

225 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
So - what was causing the judder? "The car was fixed" doesn't offer much information...

jimbo2728

232 posts

226 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
I think you have nailed the differences between the two cars there Eddie.

A colleague has an RS6 and it truly is a brilliant "wafter". It piles on indecent levels of speed from very low revs and doesn't really stop until you get scared at the rate the car is accelerating. I personally am a fan of this sort of torque as it enables you to warble along without seeimg like you are doing anything too naughty ie revving a car to 8,000 rpm and making a bit of a scene. In last years snow it proved to be the weapon of choice when going to lunch as the AWD and the auto box that creeps when you release the brake proved to be the perfect way to sneak away from a standstill without any drama on snow or ice.

The M5 is just a totally different animal with it's insanely rev hungry V10, rear wheel drive set up. I have only ever thoguht that SMG works at it's best when being nailed and you are cracking gears home in the most transmission abusive manner possible. However, you cannot drive this car in this mode all the time A) because it feels like the car is going to break in half every time a gear slams home and B) because of all the noise you make when doing it!

Obviously it is a mega car and the likes of which we will not likely see again (high revving N/A etc) so we should celebrate it as a legend that laughs in the face of emissions overlords and the petrol price dictators.

Thanks Eddie, top write up!

Fetchez la vache

5,903 posts

244 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Great write-up. Fast estates are indeed very cool.
I'd been thinking about an older RS6 but not got as far as finding out the pitfalls... a 7K gearbox change is something of an eye opener!

FlashBastd

313 posts

220 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Nice, would love one of these, the M5 has been a hero car for me since my Dad had an E34 M5 when I was a teenager, the Touring even more so.

ecain63

10,653 posts

205 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Thanks for reading guys. I'll get on later and answer any Q?'s you might have.

Eddie

rob.e

2,863 posts

308 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
jimbo2728 said:
The M5 is just a totally different animal with it's insanely rev hungry V10, rear wheel drive set up. I have only ever thoguht that SMG works at it's best when being nailed and you are cracking gears home in the most transmission abusive manner possible. However, you cannot drive this car in this mode all the time A) because it feels like the car is going to break in half every time a gear slams home and B) because of all the noise you make when doing it!
Add also: rate at which it's going to be swallowing super-unleaded, plus the effect this will have on your kids/dog/wife etc!



jimbo2728

232 posts

226 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
rob.e said:
Add also: rate at which it's going to be swallowing super-unleaded, plus the effect this will have on your kids/dog/wife etc!
Agreed!

thewheelman

2,194 posts

203 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Fugly, as are most BMWs, i'd take the RS6 all day long.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

220 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
I have to feign total ignorance here, I didn't even know BMW sold an M5 touring... getmecoat

thewheelman

2,194 posts

203 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I have to feign total ignorance here, I didn't even know BMW sold an M5 touring... getmecoat
Since the E39..., and some E34s.

mikesgt2

21 posts

192 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Eddie, nice write up and your car looks great in black, we had numerous discussions about clutches 6 months or so ago, I agree with the brakes and handling comments re the M5 over the RS6. The M5 is much better balanced but the lack of torque for everyday driving starting to wear me down over the last few months, quick when dropped down a few gears but in 7th at 3000 rpm a 320d will stay with it. Sold it a week ago and bought an RS6 V10 which I took to superchips a day later for 650bhp, combines the best of both really but not a bargain price as the M5 has now become. Hope yours goes on without any clutch issues now it has been done properly. Regards, Mike

J B L

4,217 posts

245 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
Fetchez la vache said:
Great write-up. Fast estates are indeed very cool.
I'd been thinking about an older RS6 but not got as far as finding out the pitfalls... a 7K gearbox change is something of an eye opener!
yes

I imagine quite a few who don't do their homework are going to get burned. Especially when you see this kind of value:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/3126940.htm
http://pistonheads.com/sales/3246157.htm
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2244455.htm

Kia money...madness. I'd love one but mpg aside, I'm quite certain service costs, brakes and all other maintenance costs would be crippling, even from a specialist.

ecain63

10,653 posts

205 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
sam303 said:
So - what was causing the judder? "The car was fixed" doesn't offer much information...
To cut a very long story short i have attached links to the relevant topics during this time.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

ecain63

10,653 posts

205 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
rob.e said:
Great write up. Fast estates are very cool.

thumbup


Any reason why you chose the M5 over a newer C6 RS6?
At the time it was down to affordability. £30k vs £50k.

I am tempted by the 800bhp+ possibilities of the Audi though.

ecain63

10,653 posts

205 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
mikesgt2 said:
Eddie, nice write up and your car looks great in black, we had numerous discussions about clutches 6 months or so ago, I agree with the brakes and handling comments re the M5 over the RS6. The M5 is much better balanced but the lack of torque for everyday driving starting to wear me down over the last few months, quick when dropped down a few gears but in 7th at 3000 rpm a 320d will stay with it. Sold it a week ago and bought an RS6 V10 which I took to superchips a day later for 650bhp, combines the best of both really but not a bargain price as the M5 has now become. Hope yours goes on without any clutch issues now it has been done properly. Regards, Mike
Superchips? Why? Go and visit MRC mate. Superchips is too generic for the RS6.

Nors

1,291 posts

185 months

Friday 23rd September 2011
quotequote all
mikesgt2 said:
Sold it a week ago and bought an RS6 V10 which I took to superchips a day later for 650bhp,
yikes Bet that's scares the dog!!! (If you have one of course)laugh