Borrowing a BMW 120d and quite like it..........
Discussion
I'm now in two minds and could do with some typically good ph advice...
I've had a 120D M-sport model for a couple of days and have to say I'm starting to quite like it.... My Wife's car is a 2008 Seat Leon FR TDi (170bhp) so I've been comparing the two.
Our Leon only has 30k miles on but this little 1-Series has 94k and still feels like it could have only 20k! The interior has held up fantastically and is in great condition but the car drives superb, really chuckable and has a nice smooth power delivery whereas the Leon is a bit all or nothing plus it's the older PD engine so is quite noisy compared to the BMW.
This has now got me thinking I should sell the Leon and get a 123D....
Size wise there's not a lot in it, the Leon has a bit more room but visability is poor even compared to the 1-series.
Obviously I'd be looking at an older / high mile 123d to change the Leon for one with little / no cost so I will have to seriously think about it...
Anyone else driven both and have an opinion??
I've had a 120D M-sport model for a couple of days and have to say I'm starting to quite like it.... My Wife's car is a 2008 Seat Leon FR TDi (170bhp) so I've been comparing the two.
Our Leon only has 30k miles on but this little 1-Series has 94k and still feels like it could have only 20k! The interior has held up fantastically and is in great condition but the car drives superb, really chuckable and has a nice smooth power delivery whereas the Leon is a bit all or nothing plus it's the older PD engine so is quite noisy compared to the BMW.
This has now got me thinking I should sell the Leon and get a 123D....
Size wise there's not a lot in it, the Leon has a bit more room but visability is poor even compared to the 1-series.
Obviously I'd be looking at an older / high mile 123d to change the Leon for one with little / no cost so I will have to seriously think about it...
Anyone else driven both and have an opinion??
I've got a 123d and the wife has an 07 plate Altea FR 170 so a pretty close comparison.
If you like the 120d over the 170 VAG engine then I think you'll certainly get on well with a 123d, although I like both for what they are, the 123d engine in comparison feels a generation or two more developed than the 170 engine in everything it does.
Like the 120d, its also far more linear power delivery than the Seat but even more so because there's power available from idle and the rev ceiling is higher than either the VAG or the 120d engine, still pulling hard at the limiter at nearly 5k. In fact it's more turbo petrol type power delivery than "conventional" diesel, there's no banzai top end obviously but you don't get the tail off of power at high revs that most diesels suffer from nor the nothing -> whoosh sudden surge of torque at low revs so in some circumstances can actually feel slower, but it's not. The 170 engine has hardly any poke below ~1500rpm so requires frequent downchanges when in traffic etc and even with sedate driving you're revving to 2.5k to generate a useable rev band, whereas the 123d will pull happily from idle and can keep up with traffic all day whilst staying under 2k, so is a lot more relaxing and flexible.
If you like the 120d over the 170 VAG engine then I think you'll certainly get on well with a 123d, although I like both for what they are, the 123d engine in comparison feels a generation or two more developed than the 170 engine in everything it does.
Like the 120d, its also far more linear power delivery than the Seat but even more so because there's power available from idle and the rev ceiling is higher than either the VAG or the 120d engine, still pulling hard at the limiter at nearly 5k. In fact it's more turbo petrol type power delivery than "conventional" diesel, there's no banzai top end obviously but you don't get the tail off of power at high revs that most diesels suffer from nor the nothing -> whoosh sudden surge of torque at low revs so in some circumstances can actually feel slower, but it's not. The 170 engine has hardly any poke below ~1500rpm so requires frequent downchanges when in traffic etc and even with sedate driving you're revving to 2.5k to generate a useable rev band, whereas the 123d will pull happily from idle and can keep up with traffic all day whilst staying under 2k, so is a lot more relaxing and flexible.
nickg123 said:
Obviously I'd be looking at an older / high mile 123d to change the Leon for one with little / no cost so I will have to seriously think about it...
Go for it, I hear that leggy BMW diesels are really cheap to run. Make sure you get one in white with 19" black wheels and tintz to look really cool.Disco You said:
nickg123 said:
Obviously I'd be looking at an older / high mile 123d to change the Leon for one with little / no cost so I will have to seriously think about it...
Go for it, I hear that leggy BMW diesels are really cheap to run. Make sure you get one in white with 19" black wheels and tintz to look really cool.It really doesn't.
Get a well serviced and looked after one and you will be fine.
My 123d (currently for sale
) has just under 50k miles on it, and had I kept it for another 2 years it would have over 100k.75% of this on the motorway, well serviced and looked after, not thrashed when cold. I would say it even at that point would have a long life ahead of it.
IIRC my 535d had about 80k miles when I sold it, again I'm confident that it will carry on for a very long time provided the new owner looks after it well.
Not worth feeding those fishing for a reaction but FWIW if I had to chose I'd put my money on the 123d being the cheaper of the two to run and be more reliable long term, economy is about the same, the turbos are fairly simple fixed geometry jobbies that seem to be far more reliable than the variable geometry single turbos used on most modern diesels and there's no real scare stories or common faults reported. The 170 VAG engine on the other hand has a tendancy to clog up and destroy DPFs and eat injectors at £600-800 a pop fitted (not for a set), causing the engine to shut down completely without warning when it happens, which isnt ideal. Ours has had two go in quick succession, thankfully Seat agreed to foot the bill despite being nearly a year and 20k out of warranty, they even paid for the remaining two functional injectors to be replaced following the second failure so can't fault them for that, but would rather it not happen in the first place. The only major downer with the 123d (and any 4 pot BMW diesel) is the clutch judder, its not there all the time by any means and not every car does it, but a large proportion do and it's the one thing that I don't like about mine.
My Sister has inherited a 120d M-Sport 5-dr as a company car until her new car is delivered. Even at 93k miles I'm tempted to see if I can buy it off the lease company. Le-Mans blue with black heated leather and the 18" wheel option - just had discs and pads at service too.
It's a bit rough round the edges but at the right money I'd get the cosmetic stuff sorted.
It's a bit rough round the edges but at the right money I'd get the cosmetic stuff sorted.
I moved from a Golf GT 170 PD to a BMW 320d which I assume is the same engine as the 123d? in June, and have to say, I love everything about it. The power delivery is so much smoother, but it is actually quite a bit quicker. It will pull from anywhere in the rev range, right up to the red line. I have noticed the clutch judder ocassionally, when pulling away from stand still, and had been blaming myself for not being used to the BMW clutch - glad to hear it may not be me!!
I had all of the problems discussed so far, and more with my Golf - two injectors failed, at a time when VW refused to change the rest for free, DPF clogged several times. All in all, glad to be rid of it (it was a company car, as is this one, but that's not the point - I can't stand an unreliable car, and the Golf was VERY unreliable - it broke down three times in 110k leaving me stranded and requiring towing in by the RAC!!
I had all of the problems discussed so far, and more with my Golf - two injectors failed, at a time when VW refused to change the rest for free, DPF clogged several times. All in all, glad to be rid of it (it was a company car, as is this one, but that's not the point - I can't stand an unreliable car, and the Golf was VERY unreliable - it broke down three times in 110k leaving me stranded and requiring towing in by the RAC!!
Thanks for the responses, the 120D goes back today but it has been a bit of an eye opener! I must admit i didn't have high expectations of it but it genuinely surprised me especially as it had over 90k...
I've noticed the clutch judder so did think it was a sign it may need the clutch doing but sounds like it's a common thing then!
My own car is a 520d and that has over 140k miles on it now so I'm impressed with how that's worn for it's age, it's held up nicely to be fair so was pleased to see the 1 series do the same and obviously it's well built.
The Leon is a lovely car, and I do like it but would rather change it when it's still low mileage and worth a decent amount before it starts to have problems with injectors, DPF clogging etc. It's (touch wood) been completely reliable and not shown any signs of DPF problems yet but then it does get a good run everyday rather then a short town journey so that probably helps.
I'm off to browse the classifieds... thanks again!
I've noticed the clutch judder so did think it was a sign it may need the clutch doing but sounds like it's a common thing then!
My own car is a 520d and that has over 140k miles on it now so I'm impressed with how that's worn for it's age, it's held up nicely to be fair so was pleased to see the 1 series do the same and obviously it's well built.
The Leon is a lovely car, and I do like it but would rather change it when it's still low mileage and worth a decent amount before it starts to have problems with injectors, DPF clogging etc. It's (touch wood) been completely reliable and not shown any signs of DPF problems yet but then it does get a good run everyday rather then a short town journey so that probably helps.
I'm off to browse the classifieds... thanks again!
nickg123 said:
Thanks for the responses, the 120D goes back today but it has been a bit of an eye opener! I must admit i didn't have high expectations of it but it genuinely surprised me especially as it had over 90k...
I've noticed the clutch judder so did think it was a sign it may need the clutch doing but sounds like it's a common thing then!
My own car is a 520d and that has over 140k miles on it now so I'm impressed with how that's worn for it's age, it's held up nicely to be fair so was pleased to see the 1 series do the same and obviously it's well built.
The Leon is a lovely car, and I do like it but would rather change it when it's still low mileage and worth a decent amount before it starts to have problems with injectors, DPF clogging etc. It's (touch wood) been completely reliable and not shown any signs of DPF problems yet but then it does get a good run everyday rather then a short town journey so that probably helps.
I'm off to browse the classifieds... thanks again!
My 123d is up for sale, PM me if you would like more info!I've noticed the clutch judder so did think it was a sign it may need the clutch doing but sounds like it's a common thing then!
My own car is a 520d and that has over 140k miles on it now so I'm impressed with how that's worn for it's age, it's held up nicely to be fair so was pleased to see the 1 series do the same and obviously it's well built.
The Leon is a lovely car, and I do like it but would rather change it when it's still low mileage and worth a decent amount before it starts to have problems with injectors, DPF clogging etc. It's (touch wood) been completely reliable and not shown any signs of DPF problems yet but then it does get a good run everyday rather then a short town journey so that probably helps.
I'm off to browse the classifieds... thanks again!
My sister has a recent 10 plate 120d (so will have the 172BHP engine in it!) and calls it gutless and slow. She says she preferred her old 140BHP 2.0TDI A3!!!! So it just goes to show that some people dont know!
Have to say that the 123d is a right giggle! Proper quick and it handles very well too. Never going to be the fastest thing on the road, but can bring on a nice smile when the mood takes you. The engine is the stand-out thing though. Revs well and pulls cleanly. No bad traits and its great. Though the styling and space of the 1-series is a bit crap. A good car, not the best, but a good car.
Wonder what the new 1 series will bring with engine choices?
Have to say that the 123d is a right giggle! Proper quick and it handles very well too. Never going to be the fastest thing on the road, but can bring on a nice smile when the mood takes you. The engine is the stand-out thing though. Revs well and pulls cleanly. No bad traits and its great. Though the styling and space of the 1-series is a bit crap. A good car, not the best, but a good car.
Wonder what the new 1 series will bring with engine choices?
Its good to hear BMW are seemingly kicking Vag's arse 
(I've got a 123d ) Ahh and Vinnie83 I believe we have met over on the babybmw.net forums.
OP I bought my 123d with 76k miles, I wasn't really fussed about the high mileage as you mentioned the 120d you drove felt sweet at 94k. My good friend who works at BMW tells me hes seen a fair few 200k+ 120d's with no problems yet! Just routine servicing and cosumerables fixed.
(I've got a 123d ) Ahh and Vinnie83 I believe we have met over on the babybmw.net forums.OP I bought my 123d with 76k miles, I wasn't really fussed about the high mileage as you mentioned the 120d you drove felt sweet at 94k. My good friend who works at BMW tells me hes seen a fair few 200k+ 120d's with no problems yet! Just routine servicing and cosumerables fixed.
Another 123d owner here. Just done over 40k miles. No problems whatsover, apart from rare clutch judder. Mainly doing short journeys around town and getting around 43mpg. On longer runs its just over 50 if you don't thrash it. Tax and insurance are quite cheap however tyres are very very expensive. Looking at around £230 for new rears if you keep the run flats. Other than that, no squeaks, no rattles and lovely smooth delivery and a decent ride. Despite what people say. Would give my approval.
I test drove a Lexus IS220d to replace my 123d with and it really made me realise how good the engine, steering, gearchange is on the 123d.
I hated the lexus - take away it's great spec and ride, the engine and gearchange was terrible.
And StottyZr, yep babybmw is certainly a good place for info on the 1 series!
The major fault on the 1 series I must say is the terrible ride.
My 911 is starting to feel like a limo compared to the 1 series - and everyone I know who has one complains of the same thing. I really cant understand how BMW felt that the ride was acceptable!
I really can't wait to get back into a larger more comfy car - I just need to find one with a decent engine!
I hated the lexus - take away it's great spec and ride, the engine and gearchange was terrible.
And StottyZr, yep babybmw is certainly a good place for info on the 1 series!
The major fault on the 1 series I must say is the terrible ride.
My 911 is starting to feel like a limo compared to the 1 series - and everyone I know who has one complains of the same thing. I really cant understand how BMW felt that the ride was acceptable!
I really can't wait to get back into a larger more comfy car - I just need to find one with a decent engine!
vinnie83 said:
I test drove a Lexus IS220d to replace my 123d with and it really made me realise how good the engine, steering, gearchange is on the 123d.
I hated the lexus - take away it's great spec and ride, the engine and gearchange was terrible.
And StottyZr, yep babybmw is certainly a good place for info on the 1 series!
The major fault on the 1 series I must say is the terrible ride.
My 911 is starting to feel like a limo compared to the 1 series - and everyone I know who has one complains of the same thing. I really cant understand how BMW felt that the ride was acceptable!
I really can't wait to get back into a larger more comfy car - I just need to find one with a decent engine!
You wouldnt happen to have the M-sport model by any chance?I hated the lexus - take away it's great spec and ride, the engine and gearchange was terrible.
And StottyZr, yep babybmw is certainly a good place for info on the 1 series!
The major fault on the 1 series I must say is the terrible ride.
My 911 is starting to feel like a limo compared to the 1 series - and everyone I know who has one complains of the same thing. I really cant understand how BMW felt that the ride was acceptable!
I really can't wait to get back into a larger more comfy car - I just need to find one with a decent engine!
That's what we have and its a little harsh maybe? Anyway, the kids are used to a Golf Mk2 GTI 16v (which had virtually NO suspension give) and a Honda CTR (which even the sales guy who sold it said that they would hate it) - and the BMW has a more compliant ride than both! The last car the wife had was a Golf mk4 GTI turbo and that just bounced everywhere....
So the little BMW does quite well, but yes, its border line tollerant. Then again, I do prefer it as it really comes alive when pushing on.
I have thought of getting rid of the runflats, however my cousin has a non M-sport car without runflats and evven his car isn't exactly a relaxing ride.
I think I am just more suited to the ride in a bigger saloon - I had an E-class AMG, M-sport 5 series - both of which I was more than happy with the ride.
I can feel a Jaaaaaiiig XJ coming on....
I think I am just more suited to the ride in a bigger saloon - I had an E-class AMG, M-sport 5 series - both of which I was more than happy with the ride.
I can feel a Jaaaaaiiig XJ coming on....
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