Full E61 write up by popular demand.
Discussion
I dont know if this goes against any PH rules but there have been a few calls to see the full write up on the E61 vs RS6 topic i wrote for 'Car Pool'. Here it is, unedited: As a follow on from this:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?stor...
"I purchased my 2007 E61 M5 in October 2010 from a fellow PHer who was looking at the possibilities of switching to Audi RS6 ownership. Having come from the RS world myself this seemed to work perfectly for us both, mutually agreeing to swap my RS6 experience (oh, and the balance of the sale) for the M5's V5 doc. Dropping my beloved MRC tuned Daytona Grey C5 RS6 Avant off with its new owner in Leeds early on that dreary Saturday morning i at least had the prospect of a 5 hour drive back to Bournemouth in the M under clearing skies. Any PHer im sure would have been thrilled to drive 300 miles in a 510bhp / 550lbft Audi estate and then switch seats to drive the M5 Tourer for another 300 miles in the opposite direction. For me however it was a sad time, especially when i heard the deep burble of the Miltek fade into the distance, the new owner taking full advantage of its savage pull. Two years i had my barge, two years of pure pleasure and thrills. It worked as a fantastic owners club car, a brilliant holiday hack and an even better dog-mobile. With some light chassis tweaks here and there, the perfect spec and performance tuning by the best Audi minds in the UK it really was an amazing beast. Oh well, we all have to move on.
Once the kettle had been boiled and poured in true Yorkshire fashion i was off and on my way south. Many a time I've been asked how the M5 compared to the RS6, at the time of the M5's production they were bitter rivals aimed at a very similar market. The answer was never so obvious as it was when i first took to the road in my Tourer. The thing with the RS was that the power and torque was always available regardless of what gear you were in or how low down in the rev range. Just point the nose, press the pedal and off you went with a deep rumble and a firm push in the back. You never felt like it was being stressed by all this oomph, it was merely flexing its muscles a little bit and kicking its heels back as it launched you off toward the horizon. Fuel economy wasn't bad either. 550 miles was possible from a full tank at 70mph, returning a peak of 32mpg from time to time. Oh how things were about to change.
So, I'm heading along the motorway heading south out of Yorkshire. Roundabouts come and go like there is some sort of fetish for them in these parts (you know the road), all the time I'm trying to get to grips with the paddle-shift SMG box, keeping a sly eye on the rev counter so i know when to change up or down and remembering to engage neutral when at a stop, in accordance with the instructions from the experienced PH masses of course. Sorry, all that on top of frequent fuel stops. Its a lot to take in on your first decent run in an M5 but what makes it 10 times harder in this car, having come straight from the torque monster, is the lack of usable thrust. Coming on to roundabouts and pulling out of junctions, where the Audi would need only a hint of right foot the M needs a heavy dollop of foot pressure to achieve the same level of urgency. It feels odd and unnatural and at times i even consider there may be a mechanical failure but the figures and the maths behind the car suggest that this is exactly how it needs to be driven. I refrain from using the famed 'M' button on the way home as i do not want to put any additional pressure on the car until I've given it the all clear by putting some sensible miles on it. Sensible miles done and I'm home and dry.
Initially I'm put off the car by what I've experienced, but having re-read the rave reports, watched Clarkson for the 100th time on TopGear and listened to the tattle on the forums I'm keen to give it another shot. A month of 'learning' the car in P400 mode passes, followed by another month of P500. A couple of squirts in P500S keep things exciting but i don't want to get into the habit of using it in 'max attack' mode every day like many of the owners. Its a special mode and i want to keep it that way. P400 and P500 modes are very similar in the way the car handles and performs, the only detail to note as different is that you don't have to press the loud pedal quite so hard to get a firm response. The clutch is progressive and so long as you give the throttle a good poke you don't get any sensation of clutch slippage or hesitation. The shift speed settings assist the clutch application further and by December I'm convinced that S5 is the way to go giving quick, slick shifts (getting faster with higher revs) and no hesitation between clutch on/off. At its fastest setting and at the correct revs the M5's SMG box is quicker to shift than the Ferrari 360 box. S6 is however a very brutal experience. I refrain from using it any more than once in a blue moon, something about says to me, 'surely this can't be right'. Anyway, by December I'm getting there with the car, but as luck would have it being in the very predictable Kingdom of Great Britain the snow fell and we were, as a nation hit with a rather serious issue with grip.
BMW's have never been great in the snow, or on ice for that matter. Its only really due to the increased availability of winter tyres that Bavarian motor owners have been saved from complete vehicular abandonment during the winter months. Predictably, the Audi was incredible in the snow. 2 years of Xmasing in Scotland proved that the Lord Of The Rings was also the Lord Of The Roads when the things got a bit white and friction free. When the snow dumped on Poole and Bournemouth i took the M5 out anyway. As an experienced 'Snow and Ice Driving Instructor' i felt confident that i could take the M5 out and complete the undulating 4 mile journey to work without issue. How wrong was i? The problem with snow is that you don't want to make any sudden movements on it and any motions need to be calculated and have a backup plan. You cannot do this with the SMG box. No clutch pedal means no control, its either ON or its OFF. My journey to work was fun but i quickly made the decision to do it only once, walking boots and helpful advice to other motorists was the plan for the rest of the 'white' season.
During the cold snap i had another issue, completely unrelated to the weather but one that is quite common it seems with the E61 design as a whole. Luckily, as soon as i took ownership of the M5 i purchased for it a fully comp BMW Insured Warranty. £90 per month of pure bliss and I'd recommend it to anyone who is considering the modern M. The problem i experienced was a failure of the tailgate wiring loom. Battery discharge faults, random tailgate glass opening, door locks that fail to work and even a brief encounter with the dreaded 'Red Cog of Death' caused by low current in the gearbox electronics. That nasty little one plagued my conscience for the whole of the Xmas holiday period until i could get to the dealer. With plenty of info on the web it didn't take me long to work out the exact location of the problem and armed with my research i convinced my local BMW outlet to address the issue by replacing the entire tailgate loom, of which there are 4 separate harnesses. Problem solved i got back behind the wheel and enjoying some snow free roads.
February has come and i have finally realised that this car is actually quite special. 4 months it has taken to establish what the M thing is all about but for now at least i feel i am there. Paddle shifting is now second nature and i only have to listen for a familiar engine note to make the perfect gear change. Ive had the brake discs changed over the past few weeks and the confidence they bring under full load is reassuring and a welcome change from the Audi Chocolate-Brembos that faded after only a couple of hard corners. The roads are dry and where safe to do so i am even getting a bit of use out of that little M-button. Marital bliss now? Not quite.
By now any E60 or E61 M5 owner will have heard of the 'Judder'. I read about it over Xmas and the thought of it turned my blood cold like the weather. How shocked was i when, on a standard 30mph trawl into Bournemouth i felt the car 'shudder' pulling away from the traffic lights? It did it a couple of times on that journey and the immediate reaction was pure panic. Rumours of a £2700 bill for a new clutch ran around my head along with memories of the fear i felt worrying about the RS6's slush box that weighed in at £7k per refit. I was lucky with my RS and the original box is now well past 100k miles with its current owner thanks to regular maintenance and hypochondria. I intended to remain on the green side of skint and pressed on to investigate exactly what caused the dreaded, wallet emptying sensation.
To cut a very long story short i have attached links to the relevant topics during this time.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
It was when i was researching the American focused m5board that the wheels of progress started turning with regard to this mechanical issue. BMW North America had the fault on their books for a while and it seemed that it was known around Europe, but we in the UK with our 'must take the car to BMW and do as they say' practises had yet to get the details of the problem down on paper. The result was a very good one with money saved and much important info discovered. Since the conclusion of my case other PHers have also benefited from the findings and with a little guidance / advice they too have been able to save some serious money and are continuing to enjoy their cars without fear of costly recurrence.
So the car was fixed in March and since then there has been nothing untoward to report (touches wood). Oh, a massive thanks to Scotthall BMW, Southampton for entertaining my theory and proving it right. I have adjusted a couple of my own practises to make my inputs more efficient. Generally getting to know the cars workings is also helping to improve my ability as far as handling and performance is concerned. Regular Sunday Services, Breakfast meets and Pub Clubs also keep the car fit and exercised, as well as in the eye of the lens. Its amazing how such a dull looking car can capture the imagination of people of all backgrounds just by the presence of an M badge or PH sticker. The fact its an estate has many people baffled and amazed by its stupidity and odd logic. Why should you need such a fast dog-taxi? The answer is obvious; 'Why not?'. T'is the same theory they use at BMW HQ when designing these things I'm sure.
Its now September and after a good summer of use and abuse i am at the stage where i feel completely at home with the 2 tonne beast. I had always said that i would not modify this one, unlike my previous steeds. It's a history that includes a couple of home built 205 GTi-6 track / rally cars with circa 240bhp to play with, a very embarrassing Kingfisher Blue Rover 100 Knightsbridge with a painted yellow interior, 14" alloys and a large bore exhaust, Mitsubishi Shogun Warrior chipped by Ralliart and finally my 510bhp Audi. I decided not to mod the M because it really didn't seem to be worth it, unless i was planning to spend big money on a supercharger kit and expensive full exhaust system including headers (manifolds for the uninitiated). Also, the 'sleeper' look had some perks and the buzz from slaying the odd Merc AMG or Audi RS was enough to quell the need to boost performance. The sane approach has lasted well but the other week i decided to change the cars appearance a little. The Wheel Specialist in Fareham took care of the 'old man on-board' looks by powder coating the alloys in a very 'stealth' anthracite finish. Admittedly its a slightly darker colour than i had initially intended for my wheels but after a few seconds of head scratching i decided that actually it looks really good. Of course there are some out there who will be horrified by the 'pharmaceutical dealer' look but ignoring that stereotype the majority now find it very pleasing to the eye. In addition to this exterior adjustment myself and another E61 owner have decided to alter the volume of the V10 and give it some throat.
I toyed with the idea of changing the back boxes in January but conflicting advice from PHers changed my mind and i stuck with the standard, slightly asthmatic voice of BMW's own brand. Sure the V10 sounds good at full pelt but its beyond argument that it could probably have done with a little bit more punch from its lungs when poking around town. I searched the US forums again and the general consensus was to make it as loud as possible which really isn't what the E61 is about. Tiff Needell hit the nail on the head back in 2005 when he tested the E60 M5. The word 'diesel' stuck in many an owners head and even though i didn't want Satan to be screaming from the rear of my car i wasn't that impressed by the rattling, agricultural noise that came from the car at low revs. This weekend Phelix and i will be taking the trip over to Hayward and Scott to get some custom boxes fitted. Aeroresh already has some boxes fitted to his E61 and the sound they emit is enough to convince me that this is what i needed. Not at all loud but just enough to make the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVpFs11BwI
Of course I'll be posting up on PH when i get home so you can hear for yourselves what the finished article sounds like.
And that's where we stand today. Some facts for you to browse before i end:
Average fuel consumption at the the moment is 15.5mpg. Ive seen 26mpg on the motorway but its a rare occurrence, normally scoring around 22mpg on a long run. Around 10mpg is normal for town work.
The minimum reading for mpg on the M5 is 7. A tank of fuel will last around 200 miles for regular commuting but i do know guys who have polished off a full load after only 5 or 6 laps of the Ring. George Best would have struggled to compete with that.
Rear tyres last approx 10k miles, still better than the C63 AMG's 7k average.
Discs last circa 20k to 30k depending on use.
The E61 is limited to over 175mph compared to the E60's 155mph. Not sure why!
Only 222 right hand drive E61 M5's came to the UK.
Despite being a fat lard, the E61 M5 is still a little lighter than the M6 Convertible.
Going back to that original question, could i really compare the M to the RS? Actually, not really. Although they both fill the same boots as a performance family cruiser slash load lugger slash dog transporter they do it in very different ways. The RS will literally pull the horizon toward you, but show it a slightly unusual corner and the car is off balance and having to slow down to find its footing. Off the line the RS also had the M pipped with the Quattro system and all that torque, but thanks to the M5's fantastic gearbox and efficient drive system as soon as you get above 40mph there is no doubt that the M is streets ahead in terms of real performance. The M is much more agile, its smarter, more balanced, its more intuitive and as a driver you always know where you are with it. With the RS it was a case of catching a lift with a train hell bent on making brutal progress. The M is far more refined on the day to day grind, but when you get up into 'THE ZONE' its a real monster but one you feel totally in control of. My relationship with the M5 i feel is only just getting up to speed. Normally i keep my cars for 2 years and then its on to something newer and more exciting but in the case of my M i reckon it'll be with me for a few years yet (fingers crossed). There is so much still to learn and so long as the 'Ring' remains a public playground I've got a dream to realise in taking the beast back to its natural home. All this sounds good in theory, but as I'm sure you well know when something else comes along, normally when you least expect it priorities change and you find yourself in the seat of something quite different and at the begining of another steep learning curve. Atom 300 anyone?
Eddie"
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?stor...
"I purchased my 2007 E61 M5 in October 2010 from a fellow PHer who was looking at the possibilities of switching to Audi RS6 ownership. Having come from the RS world myself this seemed to work perfectly for us both, mutually agreeing to swap my RS6 experience (oh, and the balance of the sale) for the M5's V5 doc. Dropping my beloved MRC tuned Daytona Grey C5 RS6 Avant off with its new owner in Leeds early on that dreary Saturday morning i at least had the prospect of a 5 hour drive back to Bournemouth in the M under clearing skies. Any PHer im sure would have been thrilled to drive 300 miles in a 510bhp / 550lbft Audi estate and then switch seats to drive the M5 Tourer for another 300 miles in the opposite direction. For me however it was a sad time, especially when i heard the deep burble of the Miltek fade into the distance, the new owner taking full advantage of its savage pull. Two years i had my barge, two years of pure pleasure and thrills. It worked as a fantastic owners club car, a brilliant holiday hack and an even better dog-mobile. With some light chassis tweaks here and there, the perfect spec and performance tuning by the best Audi minds in the UK it really was an amazing beast. Oh well, we all have to move on.
Once the kettle had been boiled and poured in true Yorkshire fashion i was off and on my way south. Many a time I've been asked how the M5 compared to the RS6, at the time of the M5's production they were bitter rivals aimed at a very similar market. The answer was never so obvious as it was when i first took to the road in my Tourer. The thing with the RS was that the power and torque was always available regardless of what gear you were in or how low down in the rev range. Just point the nose, press the pedal and off you went with a deep rumble and a firm push in the back. You never felt like it was being stressed by all this oomph, it was merely flexing its muscles a little bit and kicking its heels back as it launched you off toward the horizon. Fuel economy wasn't bad either. 550 miles was possible from a full tank at 70mph, returning a peak of 32mpg from time to time. Oh how things were about to change.
So, I'm heading along the motorway heading south out of Yorkshire. Roundabouts come and go like there is some sort of fetish for them in these parts (you know the road), all the time I'm trying to get to grips with the paddle-shift SMG box, keeping a sly eye on the rev counter so i know when to change up or down and remembering to engage neutral when at a stop, in accordance with the instructions from the experienced PH masses of course. Sorry, all that on top of frequent fuel stops. Its a lot to take in on your first decent run in an M5 but what makes it 10 times harder in this car, having come straight from the torque monster, is the lack of usable thrust. Coming on to roundabouts and pulling out of junctions, where the Audi would need only a hint of right foot the M needs a heavy dollop of foot pressure to achieve the same level of urgency. It feels odd and unnatural and at times i even consider there may be a mechanical failure but the figures and the maths behind the car suggest that this is exactly how it needs to be driven. I refrain from using the famed 'M' button on the way home as i do not want to put any additional pressure on the car until I've given it the all clear by putting some sensible miles on it. Sensible miles done and I'm home and dry.
Initially I'm put off the car by what I've experienced, but having re-read the rave reports, watched Clarkson for the 100th time on TopGear and listened to the tattle on the forums I'm keen to give it another shot. A month of 'learning' the car in P400 mode passes, followed by another month of P500. A couple of squirts in P500S keep things exciting but i don't want to get into the habit of using it in 'max attack' mode every day like many of the owners. Its a special mode and i want to keep it that way. P400 and P500 modes are very similar in the way the car handles and performs, the only detail to note as different is that you don't have to press the loud pedal quite so hard to get a firm response. The clutch is progressive and so long as you give the throttle a good poke you don't get any sensation of clutch slippage or hesitation. The shift speed settings assist the clutch application further and by December I'm convinced that S5 is the way to go giving quick, slick shifts (getting faster with higher revs) and no hesitation between clutch on/off. At its fastest setting and at the correct revs the M5's SMG box is quicker to shift than the Ferrari 360 box. S6 is however a very brutal experience. I refrain from using it any more than once in a blue moon, something about says to me, 'surely this can't be right'. Anyway, by December I'm getting there with the car, but as luck would have it being in the very predictable Kingdom of Great Britain the snow fell and we were, as a nation hit with a rather serious issue with grip.
BMW's have never been great in the snow, or on ice for that matter. Its only really due to the increased availability of winter tyres that Bavarian motor owners have been saved from complete vehicular abandonment during the winter months. Predictably, the Audi was incredible in the snow. 2 years of Xmasing in Scotland proved that the Lord Of The Rings was also the Lord Of The Roads when the things got a bit white and friction free. When the snow dumped on Poole and Bournemouth i took the M5 out anyway. As an experienced 'Snow and Ice Driving Instructor' i felt confident that i could take the M5 out and complete the undulating 4 mile journey to work without issue. How wrong was i? The problem with snow is that you don't want to make any sudden movements on it and any motions need to be calculated and have a backup plan. You cannot do this with the SMG box. No clutch pedal means no control, its either ON or its OFF. My journey to work was fun but i quickly made the decision to do it only once, walking boots and helpful advice to other motorists was the plan for the rest of the 'white' season.
During the cold snap i had another issue, completely unrelated to the weather but one that is quite common it seems with the E61 design as a whole. Luckily, as soon as i took ownership of the M5 i purchased for it a fully comp BMW Insured Warranty. £90 per month of pure bliss and I'd recommend it to anyone who is considering the modern M. The problem i experienced was a failure of the tailgate wiring loom. Battery discharge faults, random tailgate glass opening, door locks that fail to work and even a brief encounter with the dreaded 'Red Cog of Death' caused by low current in the gearbox electronics. That nasty little one plagued my conscience for the whole of the Xmas holiday period until i could get to the dealer. With plenty of info on the web it didn't take me long to work out the exact location of the problem and armed with my research i convinced my local BMW outlet to address the issue by replacing the entire tailgate loom, of which there are 4 separate harnesses. Problem solved i got back behind the wheel and enjoying some snow free roads.
February has come and i have finally realised that this car is actually quite special. 4 months it has taken to establish what the M thing is all about but for now at least i feel i am there. Paddle shifting is now second nature and i only have to listen for a familiar engine note to make the perfect gear change. Ive had the brake discs changed over the past few weeks and the confidence they bring under full load is reassuring and a welcome change from the Audi Chocolate-Brembos that faded after only a couple of hard corners. The roads are dry and where safe to do so i am even getting a bit of use out of that little M-button. Marital bliss now? Not quite.
By now any E60 or E61 M5 owner will have heard of the 'Judder'. I read about it over Xmas and the thought of it turned my blood cold like the weather. How shocked was i when, on a standard 30mph trawl into Bournemouth i felt the car 'shudder' pulling away from the traffic lights? It did it a couple of times on that journey and the immediate reaction was pure panic. Rumours of a £2700 bill for a new clutch ran around my head along with memories of the fear i felt worrying about the RS6's slush box that weighed in at £7k per refit. I was lucky with my RS and the original box is now well past 100k miles with its current owner thanks to regular maintenance and hypochondria. I intended to remain on the green side of skint and pressed on to investigate exactly what caused the dreaded, wallet emptying sensation.
To cut a very long story short i have attached links to the relevant topics during this time.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
It was when i was researching the American focused m5board that the wheels of progress started turning with regard to this mechanical issue. BMW North America had the fault on their books for a while and it seemed that it was known around Europe, but we in the UK with our 'must take the car to BMW and do as they say' practises had yet to get the details of the problem down on paper. The result was a very good one with money saved and much important info discovered. Since the conclusion of my case other PHers have also benefited from the findings and with a little guidance / advice they too have been able to save some serious money and are continuing to enjoy their cars without fear of costly recurrence.
So the car was fixed in March and since then there has been nothing untoward to report (touches wood). Oh, a massive thanks to Scotthall BMW, Southampton for entertaining my theory and proving it right. I have adjusted a couple of my own practises to make my inputs more efficient. Generally getting to know the cars workings is also helping to improve my ability as far as handling and performance is concerned. Regular Sunday Services, Breakfast meets and Pub Clubs also keep the car fit and exercised, as well as in the eye of the lens. Its amazing how such a dull looking car can capture the imagination of people of all backgrounds just by the presence of an M badge or PH sticker. The fact its an estate has many people baffled and amazed by its stupidity and odd logic. Why should you need such a fast dog-taxi? The answer is obvious; 'Why not?'. T'is the same theory they use at BMW HQ when designing these things I'm sure.
Its now September and after a good summer of use and abuse i am at the stage where i feel completely at home with the 2 tonne beast. I had always said that i would not modify this one, unlike my previous steeds. It's a history that includes a couple of home built 205 GTi-6 track / rally cars with circa 240bhp to play with, a very embarrassing Kingfisher Blue Rover 100 Knightsbridge with a painted yellow interior, 14" alloys and a large bore exhaust, Mitsubishi Shogun Warrior chipped by Ralliart and finally my 510bhp Audi. I decided not to mod the M because it really didn't seem to be worth it, unless i was planning to spend big money on a supercharger kit and expensive full exhaust system including headers (manifolds for the uninitiated). Also, the 'sleeper' look had some perks and the buzz from slaying the odd Merc AMG or Audi RS was enough to quell the need to boost performance. The sane approach has lasted well but the other week i decided to change the cars appearance a little. The Wheel Specialist in Fareham took care of the 'old man on-board' looks by powder coating the alloys in a very 'stealth' anthracite finish. Admittedly its a slightly darker colour than i had initially intended for my wheels but after a few seconds of head scratching i decided that actually it looks really good. Of course there are some out there who will be horrified by the 'pharmaceutical dealer' look but ignoring that stereotype the majority now find it very pleasing to the eye. In addition to this exterior adjustment myself and another E61 owner have decided to alter the volume of the V10 and give it some throat.
I toyed with the idea of changing the back boxes in January but conflicting advice from PHers changed my mind and i stuck with the standard, slightly asthmatic voice of BMW's own brand. Sure the V10 sounds good at full pelt but its beyond argument that it could probably have done with a little bit more punch from its lungs when poking around town. I searched the US forums again and the general consensus was to make it as loud as possible which really isn't what the E61 is about. Tiff Needell hit the nail on the head back in 2005 when he tested the E60 M5. The word 'diesel' stuck in many an owners head and even though i didn't want Satan to be screaming from the rear of my car i wasn't that impressed by the rattling, agricultural noise that came from the car at low revs. This weekend Phelix and i will be taking the trip over to Hayward and Scott to get some custom boxes fitted. Aeroresh already has some boxes fitted to his E61 and the sound they emit is enough to convince me that this is what i needed. Not at all loud but just enough to make the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVpFs11BwI
Of course I'll be posting up on PH when i get home so you can hear for yourselves what the finished article sounds like.
And that's where we stand today. Some facts for you to browse before i end:
Average fuel consumption at the the moment is 15.5mpg. Ive seen 26mpg on the motorway but its a rare occurrence, normally scoring around 22mpg on a long run. Around 10mpg is normal for town work.
The minimum reading for mpg on the M5 is 7. A tank of fuel will last around 200 miles for regular commuting but i do know guys who have polished off a full load after only 5 or 6 laps of the Ring. George Best would have struggled to compete with that.
Rear tyres last approx 10k miles, still better than the C63 AMG's 7k average.
Discs last circa 20k to 30k depending on use.
The E61 is limited to over 175mph compared to the E60's 155mph. Not sure why!
Only 222 right hand drive E61 M5's came to the UK.
Despite being a fat lard, the E61 M5 is still a little lighter than the M6 Convertible.
Going back to that original question, could i really compare the M to the RS? Actually, not really. Although they both fill the same boots as a performance family cruiser slash load lugger slash dog transporter they do it in very different ways. The RS will literally pull the horizon toward you, but show it a slightly unusual corner and the car is off balance and having to slow down to find its footing. Off the line the RS also had the M pipped with the Quattro system and all that torque, but thanks to the M5's fantastic gearbox and efficient drive system as soon as you get above 40mph there is no doubt that the M is streets ahead in terms of real performance. The M is much more agile, its smarter, more balanced, its more intuitive and as a driver you always know where you are with it. With the RS it was a case of catching a lift with a train hell bent on making brutal progress. The M is far more refined on the day to day grind, but when you get up into 'THE ZONE' its a real monster but one you feel totally in control of. My relationship with the M5 i feel is only just getting up to speed. Normally i keep my cars for 2 years and then its on to something newer and more exciting but in the case of my M i reckon it'll be with me for a few years yet (fingers crossed). There is so much still to learn and so long as the 'Ring' remains a public playground I've got a dream to realise in taking the beast back to its natural home. All this sounds good in theory, but as I'm sure you well know when something else comes along, normally when you least expect it priorities change and you find yourself in the seat of something quite different and at the begining of another steep learning curve. Atom 300 anyone?
Eddie"
Edited by ecain63 on Saturday 24th September 18:22
Cheers, very interesting! Definitely interested in one in the future, see loads of chavved up and fake saloons but never a Touring so in my book that's reason enough for wanting one.
Ps there is/was a black Touring that lives in South Woodford, anyone on here? Although it might have been replaced by a RRS in the past few weeks
Ps there is/was a black Touring that lives in South Woodford, anyone on here? Although it might have been replaced by a RRS in the past few weeks
Great write up. I'm on my 4th year of ownership and until last week I drove in max attack mode at all times (P500S suspension Normal.)
Having read this I'm now driving in P400 Comfort as it really does make day to day driving so much easier! I have also experimented with the dreaded auto mode and have found that using 'position' 2 it actually isn't too bad!
I do wonder that if BMW had sat down with every road tester at the time and explained how to work SMG would the reviews have been different?
It really is like a different car.
Thanks Eddie!
Having read this I'm now driving in P400 Comfort as it really does make day to day driving so much easier! I have also experimented with the dreaded auto mode and have found that using 'position' 2 it actually isn't too bad!
I do wonder that if BMW had sat down with every road tester at the time and explained how to work SMG would the reviews have been different?
It really is like a different car.
Thanks Eddie!
joscal said:
Great write up. I'm on my 4th year of ownership and until last week I drove in max attack mode at all times (P500S suspension Normal.)
Having read this I'm now driving in P400 Comfort as it really does make day to day driving so much easier! I have also experimented with the dreaded auto mode and have found that using 'position' 2 it actually isn't too bad!
I do wonder that if BMW had sat down with every road tester at the time and explained how to work SMG would the reviews have been different?
It really is like a different car.
Thanks Eddie!
Yeah, i tried D2 for a short while but for the life of me i could not get on with it. Dont know why, but having driven a couple of other M5's recently im of the mind that maybe all the cars a little different and react to thier owners in slightly different ways. Saying that, my wife drives my car from time to time and D2 seems to work really well for her. No odd gear shifts, no 'wrong gear' moments and very smooth uptake. Maybe its just the way she drives, maybve the D mode program was designed by a Craut woman! Its weird whichever way you look at it. Paddles keep you in control.Having read this I'm now driving in P400 Comfort as it really does make day to day driving so much easier! I have also experimented with the dreaded auto mode and have found that using 'position' 2 it actually isn't too bad!
I do wonder that if BMW had sat down with every road tester at the time and explained how to work SMG would the reviews have been different?
It really is like a different car.
Thanks Eddie!
Thanks for the write up. I own both an M5 and RS6 so can appreciate the differences you point out. I would summarise it as simply as the M5 is a much better drivers' car, with lots more depth. The rs6 is a "one trick pony" as far as performance goes ie, straight line and preferably off the line straight line. However it is a great family hack, especially in our climate.
Hi
Thinking of getting an E60 M5 to join my Noble on my driveway and replace both the E36 M3 and ML500 I currently have (dont need the 7 seats now).
Im thinking of getting an 05ish car and there are quite a range of mileage... my M3 Evo has done 165k and Ive had it for 7 years now with no major issues showing me that high mileage isnt a major issue for that car (never had the vanos issue)... is it the same for the M5 or should I be looking for the lowest mileage I can possibly afford?
I hear lots about how much this model M5 costs to run, but whats the realistic figure per year if I was doing 10k miles (if I get a good car rather than a lemon lol).
Dont get me wrong Ive spent 10's thousand on the noble in the last year (I cry when I thing about it lol) I just dont really want to get another car that cost the same
Thinking of getting an E60 M5 to join my Noble on my driveway and replace both the E36 M3 and ML500 I currently have (dont need the 7 seats now).
Im thinking of getting an 05ish car and there are quite a range of mileage... my M3 Evo has done 165k and Ive had it for 7 years now with no major issues showing me that high mileage isnt a major issue for that car (never had the vanos issue)... is it the same for the M5 or should I be looking for the lowest mileage I can possibly afford?
I hear lots about how much this model M5 costs to run, but whats the realistic figure per year if I was doing 10k miles (if I get a good car rather than a lemon lol).
Dont get me wrong Ive spent 10's thousand on the noble in the last year (I cry when I thing about it lol) I just dont really want to get another car that cost the same
Hi Andy, in my experience the Noble costs a lot more to run!!
I have hardly had to spend anything on my M5 in 2 years - just an oil service. I would suggest you look at condition rather than miles. Check the i drive for when some of the big stuff needs doing, eg brakes etc. Other than that, at 10k miles a year it should be relatively cheap to run.
I would always suggest a BMW approved warranty, I understand the cost goes up considerably after 50k miles, so it's worth hunting a car out with less than 50k on the clock.
I have hardly had to spend anything on my M5 in 2 years - just an oil service. I would suggest you look at condition rather than miles. Check the i drive for when some of the big stuff needs doing, eg brakes etc. Other than that, at 10k miles a year it should be relatively cheap to run.
I would always suggest a BMW approved warranty, I understand the cost goes up considerably after 50k miles, so it's worth hunting a car out with less than 50k on the clock.
My noble cost me bugger all for the first 2 years of ownership until I started modding it... now I could have bought the car twice over for what its cost in last 18mths ... kinda my fault tho lol
looks like I will be paying the extra for warranty... the cars I have been looking at are 40K miles plus and I do a min 10k miles a year... other than warranty cost, do they suffer from the mileage or eat it up?
Not so worried about fuel costs... the ML I run daily now only does 17mpg!
so I check the i drive for when things need next replacing... any serious issues I should look out for on the 2005/2006 models?
they do seem to be a lot of car for the money
... kinda my fault tho lollooks like I will be paying the extra for warranty... the cars I have been looking at are 40K miles plus and I do a min 10k miles a year... other than warranty cost, do they suffer from the mileage or eat it up?
Not so worried about fuel costs... the ML I run daily now only does 17mpg!
so I check the i drive for when things need next replacing... any serious issues I should look out for on the 2005/2006 models?
they do seem to be a lot of car for the money
If I'm honest I'd be looking for a 2007 or newer car. Latest software and parts for SMG, latest idrve and post LCI. What's your budget?
Get a car only if its had a recent clutch inc flywheel and has new discs and pads. That'll save you about 5 grand straight off. Thr rest is servicing.
Get a car only if its had a recent clutch inc flywheel and has new discs and pads. That'll save you about 5 grand straight off. Thr rest is servicing.
to be hounest im looking at under 20k and all the 05/06 cars seem to fall into this bracket which is what has tempted me.... I have seen a few with the clutch replaced recently, but the one in particular also had a sports exhaust which appeals but worries me that it then needs a remap and thus goes into the modded teritory... I like the idea of a nicer sound but not a remap tbh (noble experience coming through).
Well I've taken the plunge... Got a black 1 owner car from a dealer... Clincher was a trade in on my ml500 that whilst worth every penny will be hard to shift because of it's 5l v8.
I'm going overseas for a week or 2 with work so will pick it up when I'm back :-)
Should make a nice addition on my drive and not be overly overshadowed by the noble :-)
I'm going overseas for a week or 2 with work so will pick it up when I'm back :-)
Should make a nice addition on my drive and not be overly overshadowed by the noble :-)
andygtt said:
Well I've taken the plunge... Got a black 1 owner car from a dealer... Clincher was a trade in on my ml500 that whilst worth every penny will be hard to shift because of it's 5l v8.
I'm going overseas for a week or 2 with work so will pick it up when I'm back :-)
Should make a nice addition on my drive and not be overly overshadowed by the noble :-)
Red leather interior?I'm going overseas for a week or 2 with work so will pick it up when I'm back :-)
Should make a nice addition on my drive and not be overly overshadowed by the noble :-)
Amazing - zero E61 AUC M5s on the BMW website. Eddie, you should ask BMW for commission!
The H&S back boxes are good - they add a nice rumble at idle and a lovely howl as the revs climb. And not too noisy so long as you go easy on the revs and throttle so a nice real world system that's nice to hear yet not too hard on the neighbours.
The H&S back boxes are good - they add a nice rumble at idle and a lovely howl as the revs climb. And not too noisy so long as you go easy on the revs and throttle so a nice real world system that's nice to hear yet not too hard on the neighbours.
phelix said:
Amazing - zero E61 AUC M5s on the BMW website. Eddie, you should ask BMW for commission!
The H&S back boxes are good - they add a nice rumble at idle and a lovely howl as the revs climb. And not too noisy so long as you go easy on the revs and throttle so a nice real world system that's nice to hear yet not too hard on the neighbours.
Commision would be nice, maybe I should write to BMWUK. Despite what people said about the H&S systems on the E39 M5s I think the difference between that and the E60/61 versions is night and day. The finish is excellent and compared to the E39s dummy boxes we got proper tuned backboxes with a very pleasant tone.The H&S back boxes are good - they add a nice rumble at idle and a lovely howl as the revs climb. And not too noisy so long as you go easy on the revs and throttle so a nice real world system that's nice to hear yet not too hard on the neighbours.
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