Plane identification
Discussion
Is there somewhere I can find out what I just saw that's layman friendly?
Saw a fairly low flying plane while daydreaming instead of working and I'm really curious as to what it is as it cut a lovely silhouette. I'll try and describe it here, but I only caught a glimpse of it banking around.
- Jet powered
- It was flying over Chester-Le-Street / Washington, quite low (a lot lower than the commercial stuff we get going over us headed for NCL) about 10 minutes ago and turned to point towards NCL.
- it was quite small, quite a wide wingspan:body ratio, and quite 'tubular' looking. Almost like a glider in it's proportions, but with a fatter body, not pointed much at the front - quite rounded.
- It wasn't very 'tall' and once it straightened up it had a very slender profile from the back.
- quite straight winged, with baguette shaped pod at the ends of each wing
- It might have been my eyes playing tricks after 12 hours staring at a monitor, but the belly looked red
I'm assuming it's just a private jet of some kind, but I've never seen anything like it. Could just be something really boring and the fact it was banked over was playing tricks, but it was really nice to see.
Saw a fairly low flying plane while daydreaming instead of working and I'm really curious as to what it is as it cut a lovely silhouette. I'll try and describe it here, but I only caught a glimpse of it banking around.
- Jet powered
- It was flying over Chester-Le-Street / Washington, quite low (a lot lower than the commercial stuff we get going over us headed for NCL) about 10 minutes ago and turned to point towards NCL.
- it was quite small, quite a wide wingspan:body ratio, and quite 'tubular' looking. Almost like a glider in it's proportions, but with a fatter body, not pointed much at the front - quite rounded.
- It wasn't very 'tall' and once it straightened up it had a very slender profile from the back.
- quite straight winged, with baguette shaped pod at the ends of each wing
- It might have been my eyes playing tricks after 12 hours staring at a monitor, but the belly looked red
I'm assuming it's just a private jet of some kind, but I've never seen anything like it. Could just be something really boring and the fact it was banked over was playing tricks, but it was really nice to see.
Probably G-BVEZ / XM479 out of Newcastle
The incident you refer to concerned G-BVEG, a JP3A in early 1994. While the seats had been made inert (ie no cartridges fitted), the right hand seat top latch was incorrectly fitted which allowed the seat to move up the rails when the a/c became inverted.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Jet...
Simpo Two said:
How many Provosts are in private hands? I know a guy who was in the air when one famously rolled, dropping the passenger seat + passenger out through the canopy - he heard it all happening on the radio.
Quite a few, mainly T3/T3A/T4s with a smattering of T5/5As. There are a number at Kemble as well as at North Weald. They can be flown on a PPL although a number of crashes have occurred owing to relative lack of experience with the a/c (the minimum requirements seem to be 100 hrs P1 and a 5 hour CONVEX).The incident you refer to concerned G-BVEG, a JP3A in early 1994. While the seats had been made inert (ie no cartridges fitted), the right hand seat top latch was incorrectly fitted which allowed the seat to move up the rails when the a/c became inverted.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Jet...
Simpo Two said:
How many Provosts are in private hands? I know a guy who was in the air when one famously rolled, dropping the passenger seat + passenger out through the canopy - he heard it all happening on the radio.
Mr Transair and his brother wasn't it? Very lucky, landed on a bank in Tesco's and survived!
mrloudly said:
Mr Transair and his brother wasn't it? Very lucky, landed on a bank in Tesco's and survived!
It was also featured on '999'. Each man thought the other had been killed.Great presence of mind for the passenger to engage brain, find the ripcord and pull it. I don't think it deployed automatically as the ejection seat wasn't actually fired.
Simpo Two said:
I don't think it deployed automatically as the ejection seat wasn't actually fired.
Correct. The BTRU operated giving seat separation almost immediately after the seat fell through the canopy. Had that not occurred he would have had to operate the 'Manual Separation Lever' prior to pulling the rip-cord.The fact that the Guillotine Sear and Scissor Shackle had been by-passed meant that he was fairly lucky to achieve auto seat separation since there was no stabilising drogue deployed and, had the seat tumbled, the BTRU would not have operated.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Monday 26th September 21:02
Simpo Two said:
How come that part worked as planned (when all the other functions were disabled)? How did it know the seat was falling - accelerometer?
The JP had a Mk4 seat which was totally mechanical in operation. The BTRU strut (basically a physical 'trip' linkage between the seat and the a/c structure) was fitted, meaning that it operated (almost) as soon as the seat started moving up the rails.The BTRU senses G (seat tumbling) and barometric altitude - there is a physical delay before it operates the Scissor Shackle releasing the parachute drogue from the seat, releasing the seat harness, and deploying the parachute post ejection when it senses that the seat is both below 2G and below 10,000 ft.
Later seats such as the Mk10 fitted to the Hawk use gas ported from the ejection gun to operate the BTRU (thus they operate FAR faster).
The point being with the JP incident was that, had the seat BTRU been gas operated, then seat-man seperation would not have occurred (because the ejection gun didn't [couldn't] fire). The fact that it was a mechanical linkage ensured seat separation. The fact that the parachute lines had not been routed through the Scissor Shackle (and the Guillotine sear had been disabled) meant that the parachute was effectively just a 'seat pack' and had no bearing on seat operation - ie it was merely a 'chute strapped to the guy's rear end and deployable only by use of the rip-cord.
However, the fact that the BTRU operated, coupled with the fact that no drogue was deployed meant that, HAD the seat tumbled, then auto-separation would not have occurred.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
The point being with the JP incident was that, had the seat BTRU been gas operated, then seat-man seperation would not have occurred (because the ejection gun didn't [couldn't] fire). The fact that it was a mechanical linkage ensured seat separation. The fact that the parachute lines had not been routed through the Scissor Shackle (and the Guillotine sear had been disabled) meant that the parachute was effectively just a 'seat pack' and had no bearing on seat operation - ie it was merely a 'chute strapped to the guy's rear end and deployable only by use of the rip-cord.
So in short, several wrongs making a right and the guy lived. Lucky indeed.Thanks for the precise explanation (as ever!)
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Probably G-BVEZ / XM479 out of Newcastle
The incident you refer to concerned G-BVEG, a JP3A in early 1994. While the seats had been made inert (ie no cartridges fitted), the right hand seat top latch was incorrectly fitted which allowed the seat to move up the rails when the a/c became inverted.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Jet...
This is true, my brother has a share in a JP at North Weald and flies on a PPL, I've been up in it and good fun it is too. The syndicate used to have a mk3 and a mk5; I think they're down to one now but I don't remember which. There's also a Vampire at North Weald and a pair of Gnats.Simpo Two said:
How many Provosts are in private hands? I know a guy who was in the air when one famously rolled, dropping the passenger seat + passenger out through the canopy - he heard it all happening on the radio.
Quite a few, mainly T3/T3A/T4s with a smattering of T5/5As. There are a number at Kemble as well as at North Weald. They can be flown on a PPL although a number of crashes have occurred owing to relative lack of experience with the a/c (the minimum requirements seem to be 100 hrs P1 and a 5 hour CONVEX).The incident you refer to concerned G-BVEG, a JP3A in early 1994. While the seats had been made inert (ie no cartridges fitted), the right hand seat top latch was incorrectly fitted which allowed the seat to move up the rails when the a/c became inverted.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Jet...
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