Hybrid or Diesel?

[martin84]

Ok this might be the most boring thread ever but in terms of looking for an economical car purely to appease the bank Manager which would you prefer? A diesel or a hybrid? Of course things like the Prius arent as economical as some other cars but in terms of big five door auto i suppose its in a class of one. But alot of diesels now are less reliable than in the past with the DPF complaints etc

Would you prefer the jiggery clatter of a tractor engine or the hum/petrol engine of a Hybrid? Even the Prius must score at least 1 point for using petrol and not diesel.

Thoughts?

[to3m]

I would imagine that you'd have more luck finding a diesel that will still be economically maintainable in 5 years' time than a hybrid, simply because there are a lot of them on the road and there will be a good demand for people to fix them. (Perhaps in 5 years' time, the same will be true of hybrids as well - but it is not 5 years in the future just yet.) I would give half a thought to difficulties with the oil supply, but that would not be a plus point for the Prius since it won't go all that far when running on battery.

You'd probably have more luck finding a diesel that's nice to drive, too - I've never heard anything remotely positive about the Prius in that regard. Same goes for the performance. I also keep hearing that the price is quite high too. Maybe I listen to the wrong people.

[iNick]

Have you ever driven a hybrid, I've driven them all as hire cars. You have to drive them with a milky bar on the throttle to get good MPG.

Hybrids or at least the Toyota systme are good in town, because they don't use the engine in traffic, which is I have to say better and it puts out less air born pollution which cases asthma etc.

But in the real world, Diesels are waaaay more fuel efficient.

You can get a small light VAG PD Tdi like the polo and i'll do amazing MPG.

The real great thing about Tdi's is because of the torque, you can still drive them enthusiastically but it doesn't make a huge differnetce to the economgy. Unless you really reve them up all the time.

If you drive a hyrbid hard about town the MPG will drop off quickly.

Plus it goes without saying the terrible cost to the environment in the production of hybrids vs traditionally power plants. But that is another topic.

In short, you'll find several Tdi's that'll do 50, even 60-70mpg, cheaper to buy and more fun to drive.

[martin84]

The problem is currently Hybrids like the Prius are built purely on the eco ticket and pay minimal attention to what its like to drive, apparently the new one has addressed some of that but diesels are already decent cars made a bit more economical.

Both the Prius and the Insight, the two main from-ground-up Hybrids are generally regarded as poor to drive. Ive driven a Prius, an 06 plate and its plus points would be decent economy for an automatic, its very quiet round town, reasonably comfortable and spacious and you can get ones with a decent level of kit but as a car to drive its pretty hopeless. You'd rave about the round town economy but you'd never get to a B road and go 'oooo goody!!' with one. You're right they are expensive, maybe because only the Japanese really seem to make them, in 10 years time when everybody makes one they'll compete on price better. But the new Prius starts at over £20,000 although resale values even on the old one are reasonably strong. The Prius has proven to be very reliable despite pretty new tech.

Maybe when car makers realise that fuel economy and emissions isnt the ONLY thing which matters, and that people will generally take a minor hit on that if it means getting something significantely better to drive, they'll make more appealing hybrids.

The Prius may suit Los Angeles brilliantly, going everywhere in a straight line at 35mph, but it doesnt seem to serve the dynamic demands of what car buyers in Britain look for.

[Jimbo.]

martin84 said:

Ok this might be the most boring thread ever but in terms of looking for an economical car purely to appease the bank Manager which would you prefer? A diesel or a hybrid? Of course things like the Prius arent as economical as some other cars but in terms of big five door auto i suppose its in a class of one. But alot of diesels now are less reliable than in the past with the DPF complaints etc

Would you prefer the jiggery clatter of a tractor engine or the hum/petrol engine of a Hybrid? Even the Prius must score at least 1 point for using petrol and not diesel.

Thoughts?

Small, lightweight petrol car like a Mazda 2, Fiat 500 1.2 or TwinAir, Kia Picanto etc, etc:
Cheaper than either petrol or diesel to buy.
Theoretically cheaper to maintain/longer lasting (no DPF or injector woe)
Not quite the MPG of either, but not a million miles off.

[JonnyVTEC]

martin84 said:

Maybe when car makers realise that fuel economy and emissions isnt the ONLY thing which matters, and that people will generally take a minor hit on that if it means getting something significantely better to drive, they'll make more appealing hybrids.

Like the Honda CRZ then?

[kambites]

I assume you mean buying new? It would depend on my primary usage. If I was going to spend much time in stop-start traffic, I'd get a hybrid; if I was going to do huge mileages on a motorway, I'd get a diesel.

All other things being equal, I'd prefer to drive a hybrid, just because I don't like diesels.



ETA: Of course in reality, I'd buy something small, cheap and reliable if they were my primary goals, which probably means an oldish petrol engined small hatchback.

[kambites]

JonnyVTEC said:

Like the Honda CRZ then?

Or indeed the original Insight, which was a great fun thing to throw around; partly because it had bugger all grip.

[Superhoop]

I think before anyone can give an answer to that question, you need to give a bit more information about usage and budget

If you do lots of reasonable length journeys, then a diesel is the answer, whereas lots of city style commuting would lead to a lighter, smaller, more efficient petrol engine or hybrid

It will also depend on anther you are planning on buying new or used etc, as DPF technology has advanced a lot recently, and isn't having the problems that early DPF cars suffered

I definitely agree with the poster above though, in that some manufacturers are working hard on lighter, more efficient cars rather than going down the hybrid route - which ultimately gives you better economy, without the limitations of a hybrid

The Mazda2 was mentioned I think.... Under 1 tonne, pretty well spec'd and the small diesel engine (1.4 I think) manages over 50 mpg without having a DPF. My mum has a 1.5 petrol that manages well over 40mpg in her hands.... Would something like that not do what you're looking for?

[thinfourth2]

Instead of spending 20grand to get a car that does 50mpg i would buy a 700 pound nissian micra that also does 50mpg

[V88Dicky]

Neither for me thanks. I'd take one of the new generation of super-efficient petrol engines. Something like Toyota's brilliant Valvematics, for example.

Combined MPG of 43.5 in the 1.8 Avensis or 40 in the 2 litre even, and low VED bands into the bargain, make them a serious contender for a comfortable but economical rep-type-mobile.

[BlueJazz]

Best of both world, a diesel hybrid: Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4

Hybrid4 Technology
- Diesel (e-HDi 163) and ElectricMotor (37 hp)
- 4 Wheel Drive
- 200bhp
- CO2 99g/km & 74mpg
- manually controlled electronic gearbox (EGC)
- e-HDi with Stop and Start

0-60 9.1 seconds
118mph top speed

99g CO2 emissions (g/km)

[kambites]

Best of both worlds in terms of economy perhaps; worst of both worlds in terms of everything else.

[BlueJazz]

Well it is a 4*4, French made!

[BlueJazz]

I'm sure it will be popular in London, a soft-roader with no congestion charge.

[edo]

Unless you live in town, most of the current hybrids struggle to make a case for themsleves.

I'd consider one when it was as good or better than the Efficent Dynamics 3 series we have so;

RWD, or very decent FWD handling
No more than 8.0 to 60.
Happy to cruise on an autobhan at 120
REAL world 55MPG+ without trying (mix of town/A/M-way)
Fun on a B road and easy to hussle along when required without it feeling out of its depth

[sjg]

"Real world" depends on a lot on what your driving involves. For me these days it's either crawling in London traffic, or I'm straight out on the motorway to somewhere. The only time in recent memory that I drove a corner over 40mph was on the M25/A21 sliproad - I have a bike for fun. I'm definitely considering a Prius/Auris HSD or similar for next car.

I'm convinced that while many Prius and other hybrids sell in London for CC exemption and greenwashing, many more sell just because they're genuinely good cars to drive in that environment. Quiet, relaxing, auto gearbox, perfect for creeping along in traffic (either silently on battery or assisted by the very quiet petrol engine) - and if you need to go further they handle that just fine too. No, not an inspiring performance car but as transport white goods they're great.

Diesels are perfect for sitting at constant speed on the motorway, and will be more economical than a petrol hybrid when they're doing that. But they take a while to warm up in the winter, you spend a load of time in traffic just listening to that tractor-like idle and feeling the slight vibration of everything as it does it. But again, not that exciting if you do hit a fun bit of road.

[BlueJazz]

edo said:

Unless you live in town, most of the current hybrids struggle to make a case for themsleves.

I'd consider one when it was as good or better than the Efficent Dynamics 3 series we have so;

RWD, or very decent FWD handling
No more than 8.0 to 60.
Happy to cruise on an autobhan at 120
REAL world 55MPG+ without trying (mix of town/A/M-way)
Fun on a B road and easy to hussle along when required without it feeling out of its depth

If the town is London then unfortunately Boris will pick your pocket for the congestion charge. If saving money is important then the 3 series Efficent Dynamics may not be the choice there.

[edo]

BlueJazz said:

edo said:

Unless you live in town, most of the current hybrids struggle to make a case for themsleves.

I'd consider one when it was as good or better than the Efficent Dynamics 3 series we have so;

RWD, or very decent FWD handling
No more than 8.0 to 60.
Happy to cruise on an autobhan at 120
REAL world 55MPG+ without trying (mix of town/A/M-way)
Fun on a B road and easy to hussle along when required without it feeling out of its depth

If the town is London then unfortunately Boris will pick your pocket for the congestion charge. If saving money is important then the 3 series Efficent Dynamics may not be the choice there.

Good economy (easily achieved), a nice environment, relatively fun to drive, quick enough, good residuals, and only £20 a year road tax (at the moment).

[BlueJazz]

edo said:

BlueJazz said:

edo said:

Unless you live in town, most of the current hybrids struggle to make a case for themsleves.

I'd consider one when it was as good or better than the Efficent Dynamics 3 series we have so;

RWD, or very decent FWD handling
No more than 8.0 to 60.
Happy to cruise on an autobhan at 120
REAL world 55MPG+ without trying (mix of town/A/M-way)
Fun on a B road and easy to hussle along when required without it feeling out of its depth

If the town is London then unfortunately Boris will pick your pocket for the congestion charge. If saving money is important then the 3 series Efficent Dynamics may not be the choice there.

Good economy (easily achieved), a nice environment, relatively fun to drive, quick enough, good residuals, and only £20 a year road tax (at the moment).

Surely you would prefer the fun of the first French made diesel hybrid 4*4? After all, what could possibly go wrong…..