Old Supercars vs Modern Hot Hatches ?
Discussion
I'd presume the RS would eat the 928, even a GTS manual (and others of it's ilk) on an average track. No surprise if that's case, different cars, designed to do different things, never mind the age gap or 30 years. To sum it all up, for me and no doubt others I'd take the 928 all day long and happy that I'd be slower by a few seconds on the track and then could do an eight stint crossing the continent at possibly higher average speeds than the far newer RS.
Stand to be corrected on all points as I've never driven an RS.
Stand to be corrected on all points as I've never driven an RS.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Saturday 1st October 11:54
I had a rather spirited drive the other day in my 123d (not remapped) with a very early 911, and he was just keeping up.
My 123d remapped would be more powerful than my old porsche 968!
It really is quite amazing how far technology has moved on in the last 20-30 years.
It makes me think - in 30 years, will hot hatches be able to keep up with the current 911's etc?
My 123d remapped would be more powerful than my old porsche 968!
It really is quite amazing how far technology has moved on in the last 20-30 years.
It makes me think - in 30 years, will hot hatches be able to keep up with the current 911's etc?
Carfolio said:
Mostly a lot of sad supercar owners. Depends on the exact match up, but in general advances have been so great that the newer machinery will see off the older stuff quite handily. There will be exceptions though, I suspect.
Do you really think people buy old supercars to race hot hatches or care what the outcome is?
nottyash said:
Do you really think people buy old supercars to race hot hatches or care what the outcome is?
Rant deleted.I wasn't meaning that they are sad because they lost at some numbers game and should have had the modern shopping trolley. No. I was merely using a turn of phrase to indicate that they'd be bettered on the track an all likelihood. I'd take a past supercar over any hatchback on sale today, every time.
Edited by Carfolio on Saturday 1st October 12:45
Carfolio said:
nottyash said:
Do you really think people buy old supercars to race hot hatches or care what the outcome is?
Rant deleted.I wasn't meaning that they are sad because they lost at some numbers game and should have had the modern shopping trolley. No. I was merely using a turn of phrase to indicate that they'd be bettered on the track an all likelihood. I'd take a past supercar over any hatchback on sale today, every time.
Edited by Carfolio on Saturday 1st October 12:45
Did want a "which is better" thing, just interested to see which is faster round a track, take tyre advances out of it as its quite conceivable that a 928 or whatever wouldtn be running old P6000's or whatever was the oe fit back then so more than likely they would be on similar tyres.
No such theing as a remap for most cars back then !
No such theing as a remap for most cars back then !
Does the old supercar get modern tyres/brakes? Depending on the 928 in question it's going to be similar or more power and roughly the same weight. I don't think there'd be much in it - around the 'ring a 1990 spec 928 did 8:47 vs 8:26 for the Focus RS. Whack on some 20 year newer tyre tech and the Porsche would be ahead, possibly...
hairykrishna said:
Does the old supercar get modern tyres/brakes? Depending on the 928 in question it's going to be similar or more power and roughly the same weight. I don't think there'd be much in it - around the 'ring a 1990 spec 928 did 8:47 vs 8:26 for the Focus RS. Whack on some 20 year newer tyre tech and the Porsche would be ahead, possibly...
I'd say they get new tyres and modern compound brake pads. You wouldn't put old stuff on just for the sake of it.Good timing on this thread - as I left work yesterday I saw an absolutely pristine Ferrari 308 (registration was simply "308" too) waiting at the T-junction I was passing, and as I passed I realised that my 3-litre Scooby Legacy is more or less as powerful as one of those (+10bhp to the Ferrari) and wondered at the advances over the decades.
Still, I'd have much rather been in his car than mine. It was simply beautiful. What a fabulous shape..!!
Still, I'd have much rather been in his car than mine. It was simply beautiful. What a fabulous shape..!!
hairykrishna said:
Does the old supercar get modern tyres/brakes? Depending on the 928 in question it's going to be similar or more power and roughly the same weight. I don't think there'd be much in it - around the 'ring a 1990 spec 928 did 8:47 vs 8:26 for the Focus RS. Whack on some 20 year newer tyre tech and the Porsche would be ahead, possibly...
I think it would seriously negate the point of the comparison. These cars were fast - comparatively speaking - in their heyday, with contemporary components. It would make it a far less interesting comparison for me, at least.Problem is in the real world on trsck days at least there's a huge range of abilities and experience. It isn't uncommon to have 2 or more of exactly the same model of car out running at vastly different paces. I've seen STs on track being driven pretty rapidly, and also ones that I can only guess still had the weekly Tesco shopping in the back. If this is a question along the lines of 'if I take my 928 on track will I be blown away by hot hatches', then I'd guess you'd pass some, and some would pass you - but more based on driver ability, experience and commitment than anything else.
J4CKO said:
I am thinking that the comparison is done now, 20 odd year old car on current tyres.
So, modern tyres and brakes too? Which track? If as mentioned it's the 'Ring then it's somewhat a differnt ballgame than any normal track I'd presume. Just imagine if a 33 year old basic design (using a twenty one year old version) was as quick or quicker than a modern super powerful hatchback! 
Johnboy Mac said:
J4CKO said:
I am thinking that the comparison is done now, 20 odd year old car on current tyres.
So, modern tyres and brakes too? Which track? If as mentioned it's the 'Ring then it's somewhat a differnt ballgame than any normal track I'd presume. Just imagine if a 33 year old basic design (using a twenty one year old version) was as quick or quicker than a modern super powerful hatchback! 
Would be interesting to see, usign the Focus RS as a yardstick how it compares as for example a Testarossa is still pretty powerful and is mid engined (even if it sits a bit high) so a much more suitable drive layout than a FWD hatch for track work. Perhaps send someone out in an original 4 speed 911 turbo and if they dotn end up in the Irish sea see how that compares.
Would have to be standard examples to make it fair.
Anyone think I should get it arranged ?
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