Wiring loom mess!
Discussion
Hey,
I have a Jago Geep and the loom is a right mess. Over the years someone has fitted a cheapo alarm system which is now disabled, and it looks like things have been added and removed through-out its life!
After fitting a new rear number plate light recently, I noticed I dont have any rear lights. I had a dig about, and theres literally random wires connected to other wires which lead to no where! Everything has been spliced together using them cheapo snap lock connector things...
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=car+electric+conn...
fficial&biw=1366&bih=623&tbm=isch&tbnid=AF7IjSPuwpUoqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.eleinmec.com/shop_category.asp%3F150-crimp-terminals&docid=sOPqNb13M1PV8M&w=150&h=150&ei=zoaITrGIKMrA8QOo5fQ1&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=366&page=11&tbnh=120&tbnw=120&start=219&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:219&tx=47&ty=54
Basically im wondering if its worth stripping the wiring completly and starting again!
Ive never done a loom before, and was wondering how do I go about finding out what gauge wire I need, and wat sort of cost shall I expect?
Would it be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand Mk1 Escort loom and modify it like the original build, or just start from the beginning with reels of cable?
And help would be much appreciated!
Bruce
I have a Jago Geep and the loom is a right mess. Over the years someone has fitted a cheapo alarm system which is now disabled, and it looks like things have been added and removed through-out its life!
After fitting a new rear number plate light recently, I noticed I dont have any rear lights. I had a dig about, and theres literally random wires connected to other wires which lead to no where! Everything has been spliced together using them cheapo snap lock connector things...
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=car+electric+conn...
fficial&biw=1366&bih=623&tbm=isch&tbnid=AF7IjSPuwpUoqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.eleinmec.com/shop_category.asp%3F150-crimp-terminals&docid=sOPqNb13M1PV8M&w=150&h=150&ei=zoaITrGIKMrA8QOo5fQ1&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=366&page=11&tbnh=120&tbnw=120&start=219&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:219&tx=47&ty=54Basically im wondering if its worth stripping the wiring completly and starting again!
Ive never done a loom before, and was wondering how do I go about finding out what gauge wire I need, and wat sort of cost shall I expect?
Would it be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand Mk1 Escort loom and modify it like the original build, or just start from the beginning with reels of cable?
And help would be much appreciated!
Bruce
If it is the mess I have seen many times then you are better off starting again.
You could start by asking the owners club if a custom loom exists for the car as that would be your best bet.
Failing that a loom designed for a se7en (which I could supply) would be a good 'starter for ten' as it will have in it all the circuits, fuses and relays you reguire even if the loom branches are not the required length and may need extending or shortening. The main benefit is that the wires will be the right colour for each circuit so you will know what they do.
If you want to do your own you will end up buying way more wire than you need and will have to buy all the different colours and wire gauges. Car Builder Solutions have a good section on wiring so you can work out what wire sizes you need. Polevolt do the best wire and connector prices i have found.
Good luck...you will need it.
Steve
You could start by asking the owners club if a custom loom exists for the car as that would be your best bet.
Failing that a loom designed for a se7en (which I could supply) would be a good 'starter for ten' as it will have in it all the circuits, fuses and relays you reguire even if the loom branches are not the required length and may need extending or shortening. The main benefit is that the wires will be the right colour for each circuit so you will know what they do.
If you want to do your own you will end up buying way more wire than you need and will have to buy all the different colours and wire gauges. Car Builder Solutions have a good section on wiring so you can work out what wire sizes you need. Polevolt do the best wire and connector prices i have found.
Good luck...you will need it.
Steve
I kinda agree, if its really bad then you might be better starting with a new escort loom.
That said, you will have to take all the dash to bits ect. often once you get going and you figure out where its gone wrong its not to bad to fix. these things often tend to look worse than they are.
That said, you will have to take all the dash to bits ect. often once you get going and you figure out where its gone wrong its not to bad to fix. these things often tend to look worse than they are.
Years ago, when I built my Nova, I had to make a custom loom for it as an off the shelf item hadn't been developed by that stage. It's by no means an easy task, and don't underestimate the amount of time it'll take to do. On the other hand, I found it to be a very satisfying project and a welcome change from skinning knuckles on the mechanical part of the build. Approached methodically, and with a little head scratching, it's eminently possible to do.
If I recall, I used the wiring diagrams in a Haynes manual for a classic mini as a guide.
To form the basic loom, I used an 8x4 sheet of wood and hammered in nails to represent the position of items that needed connecting - lights, wipers, fusebox, column stalks, dash instruments, etc - having measured the distances between them on the car using a spare length of cable. That way, it became a simple matter of looping each cable around one nail, running it along (using more nails to support the wires in between) and looping it around the last.
For the connectors, I just used uninsulated crimp terminals and heat shrink sleeving, and wrapped the loom in non-adhesive tape.
The benefit of making your own loom, is that everything is where you want it to be, there's no unnecessary connections from shortening/extending an existing one (every connection is a potential failure point), and since you've made it yourself, any problems later on or modifications you want to make are much easier to deal with.
I never had any electrical gremlins from my loom the whole time I owned the car, and retrofitting EFI wiring into the engine bay later on when I changed the engine was relatively simple as I already knew the existing loom inside out.
I'd be very nervous about using a 2nd hand Mk1 Escort loom as a base. Given that any such loom is going to be at least 35 years old now, the potential for electrical problems with ageing cables is going to be high. Not such an issue ordinarily, but by the time you've pushed, pulled, cut and spliced it and fitted it into the car, you could be facing a nightmare of fault finding.
If the prospect of creating a whole new loom from scratch seems daunting, could you do it section by section using multipin connectors to join the various areas? At least that way you get to tidy each area up, replace old wire with new and strip out unused cables and dubious connections in the process.
If I recall, I used the wiring diagrams in a Haynes manual for a classic mini as a guide.
To form the basic loom, I used an 8x4 sheet of wood and hammered in nails to represent the position of items that needed connecting - lights, wipers, fusebox, column stalks, dash instruments, etc - having measured the distances between them on the car using a spare length of cable. That way, it became a simple matter of looping each cable around one nail, running it along (using more nails to support the wires in between) and looping it around the last.
For the connectors, I just used uninsulated crimp terminals and heat shrink sleeving, and wrapped the loom in non-adhesive tape.
The benefit of making your own loom, is that everything is where you want it to be, there's no unnecessary connections from shortening/extending an existing one (every connection is a potential failure point), and since you've made it yourself, any problems later on or modifications you want to make are much easier to deal with.
I never had any electrical gremlins from my loom the whole time I owned the car, and retrofitting EFI wiring into the engine bay later on when I changed the engine was relatively simple as I already knew the existing loom inside out.
I'd be very nervous about using a 2nd hand Mk1 Escort loom as a base. Given that any such loom is going to be at least 35 years old now, the potential for electrical problems with ageing cables is going to be high. Not such an issue ordinarily, but by the time you've pushed, pulled, cut and spliced it and fitted it into the car, you could be facing a nightmare of fault finding.
If the prospect of creating a whole new loom from scratch seems daunting, could you do it section by section using multipin connectors to join the various areas? At least that way you get to tidy each area up, replace old wire with new and strip out unused cables and dubious connections in the process.
Steve_D said:
If it is the mess I have seen many times then you are better off starting again.
You could start by asking the owners club if a custom loom exists for the car as that would be your best bet.
Failing that a loom designed for a se7en (which I could supply) would be a good 'starter for ten' as it will have in it all the circuits, fuses and relays you reguire even if the loom branches are not the required length and may need extending or shortening. The main benefit is that the wires will be the right colour for each circuit so you will know what they do.
If you want to do your own you will end up buying way more wire than you need and will have to buy all the different colours and wire gauges. Car Builder Solutions have a good section on wiring so you can work out what wire sizes you need. Polevolt do the best wire and connector prices i have found.
Good luck...you will need it.
Steve
I would agree that starting again is a good idea, i also think that a Seven loom would be an ideal basis and would save a whole lot of grief.You could start by asking the owners club if a custom loom exists for the car as that would be your best bet.
Failing that a loom designed for a se7en (which I could supply) would be a good 'starter for ten' as it will have in it all the circuits, fuses and relays you reguire even if the loom branches are not the required length and may need extending or shortening. The main benefit is that the wires will be the right colour for each circuit so you will know what they do.
If you want to do your own you will end up buying way more wire than you need and will have to buy all the different colours and wire gauges. Car Builder Solutions have a good section on wiring so you can work out what wire sizes you need. Polevolt do the best wire and connector prices i have found.
Good luck...you will need it.
Steve
Cheers for the advice chaps!
The current loom really is that bad! Cables have randomly been added, and just shoved under the carpet, so theres about 10 different cables just randomly running down the length of the car, spliced into the loom at the back and then leading to god knows where!
I like the idea of a 7 loom...
Any idea on how much this costs?
I am fine with the mechanical side of things, but the only electrical stuff I have done it wiring up and sub and amp a few years back!
Im not overly fussed about time scales, as the car is only for summer, so I have all winter to get it done, and even longer if needs be! Are there any certain toold that will help me in the long run other than a solder iron and a decent set of crimpers?
Thanks again
The current loom really is that bad! Cables have randomly been added, and just shoved under the carpet, so theres about 10 different cables just randomly running down the length of the car, spliced into the loom at the back and then leading to god knows where!
I like the idea of a 7 loom...
Any idea on how much this costs?
I am fine with the mechanical side of things, but the only electrical stuff I have done it wiring up and sub and amp a few years back!
Im not overly fussed about time scales, as the car is only for summer, so I have all winter to get it done, and even longer if needs be! Are there any certain toold that will help me in the long run other than a solder iron and a decent set of crimpers?
Thanks again
It isn't difficult to wire up a car from scratch and create your own loom. It's also quite cheap to do and if you spend the time to crimp and solder all the connectors, you shoudln't have any problems.
I did my own: http://www.robcollingridge.com/kitcar/design/elect...
Rob
I did my own: http://www.robcollingridge.com/kitcar/design/elect...
Rob
A robust and low cost way of making your own loom is to use 7 core trailer wire. If you use two lengths of it along the car you can effectively run two circuits, one for lighting and one for engine and sensors. 14 cores in all will cover a simple loom like a Jago. OK you will end up with duplication of wire colours for different functions, but as long as you make sure the two looms dont really mix its not an issue. Its a lot easier than picking you way through trying to order 4 mtrs of colours x y and z etc, and the cable has its tough outer shield so you dont need to worry about so much horrid black tape.
Steve, will it be a job a complete wiring novice like myself could undertake to adapt it to my Jago?
At the moment the rear fog light, wipers, washer jets, headlights and hazards are on switches on the dash. Is this something I would retain if I used the 7 loom?
Also in the wiring diagram does it state what relays I need to use, and will it be using a new blade type fuse box, or do I keep the older type fuse?
Sorry for all the questions, but im daunted by the thought of ripping out all the wiring, and in effect getting out of my depth!
Im sure its something I can do, but its just scary!!! :P
At the moment the rear fog light, wipers, washer jets, headlights and hazards are on switches on the dash. Is this something I would retain if I used the 7 loom?
Also in the wiring diagram does it state what relays I need to use, and will it be using a new blade type fuse box, or do I keep the older type fuse?
Sorry for all the questions, but im daunted by the thought of ripping out all the wiring, and in effect getting out of my depth!
Im sure its something I can do, but its just scary!!! :P
Bruc3 said:
Steve, will it be a job a complete wiring novice like myself could undertake to adapt it to my Jago?
At the moment the rear fog light, wipers, washer jets, headlights and hazards are on switches on the dash. Is this something I would retain if I used the 7 loom?
Also in the wiring diagram does it state what relays I need to use, and will it be using a new blade type fuse box, or do I keep the older type fuse?
Sorry for all the questions, but im daunted by the thought of ripping out all the wiring, and in effect getting out of my depth!
Im sure its something I can do, but its just scary!!! :P
The loom comes with relays and blade type fuses/box.At the moment the rear fog light, wipers, washer jets, headlights and hazards are on switches on the dash. Is this something I would retain if I used the 7 loom?
Also in the wiring diagram does it state what relays I need to use, and will it be using a new blade type fuse box, or do I keep the older type fuse?
Sorry for all the questions, but im daunted by the thought of ripping out all the wiring, and in effect getting out of my depth!
Im sure its something I can do, but its just scary!!! :P
It is designed around certain switches but can be adapted.
Send me a PM or mail me through my web site (see my profile) and I will send you some info on the loom and the circuits so you can start to learn the circuits before committing to anything.
Steve
Nothing to do with the wiring, but back in the mid 70's I was using an old AJS motorbike on a scramble track (that is now the A3M near Portsmouth) and a Jeep parked at the side nodded to me if I minded him joining in!
I agreed and I found it hard to drop this guy and several times I looked behind to see the complete underside of it as he leapt the jumps.
It turned out to be Jeff Jago himself and it was one of his first builds running 1500 GT pre crossflow and Anglia based.
He then took me round and I was amazed at the car driver combo and swear that we literally flew many times I was a little concerned at the dashboard having a bar right in front of the knees which would cripple you if you crashed.
Ah memories sorry to hijack, back to wiring now.
I agreed and I found it hard to drop this guy and several times I looked behind to see the complete underside of it as he leapt the jumps.
It turned out to be Jeff Jago himself and it was one of his first builds running 1500 GT pre crossflow and Anglia based.
He then took me round and I was amazed at the car driver combo and swear that we literally flew many times I was a little concerned at the dashboard having a bar right in front of the knees which would cripple you if you crashed.
Ah memories sorry to hijack, back to wiring now.
I took to stripping a few of the un-neccesary wires today that seemed to lead to no where!
I took a few pics so you can see for yourselves what I have to work with here!
On a slightly more interesting note, I pulled the dash forward to see what the wiring was like behind that, and found these...
Tickets from 96! But even better, reckon KFC will still give me my free chicken and chips?!
Also found this one from 95!
I took a few pics so you can see for yourselves what I have to work with here!
On a slightly more interesting note, I pulled the dash forward to see what the wiring was like behind that, and found these...
Tickets from 96! But even better, reckon KFC will still give me my free chicken and chips?!
Also found this one from 95!
Bruc3 said:
Hey,Could I get a quote for a loom for a jago geep My name I al7348 thanks
I have a Jago Geep and the loom is a right mess. Over the years someone has fitted a cheapo alarm system which is now disabled, and it looks like things have been added and removed through-out its life!
After fitting a new rear number plate light recently, I noticed I dont have any rear lights. I had a dig about, and theres literally random wires connected to other wires which lead to no where! Everything has been spliced together using them cheapo snap lock connector things...
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=car+electric+conn...fficial&biw=1366&bih=623&tbm=isch&tbnid=AF7IjSPuwpUoqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.eleinmec.com/shop_category.asp%3F150-crimp-terminals&docid=sOPqNb13M1PV8M&w=150&h=150&ei=zoaITrGIKMrA8QOo5fQ1&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=366&page=11&tbnh=120&tbnw=120&start=219&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:219&tx=47&ty=54
Basically im wondering if its worth stripping the wiring completly and starting again!
Ive never done a loom before, and was wondering how do I go about finding out what gauge wire I need, and wat sort of cost shall I expect?
Would it be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand Mk1 Escort loom and modify it like the original build, or just start from the beginning with reels of cable?
And help would be much appreciated!
Bruce
I have a Jago Geep and the loom is a right mess. Over the years someone has fitted a cheapo alarm system which is now disabled, and it looks like things have been added and removed through-out its life!
After fitting a new rear number plate light recently, I noticed I dont have any rear lights. I had a dig about, and theres literally random wires connected to other wires which lead to no where! Everything has been spliced together using them cheapo snap lock connector things...
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=car+electric+conn...
fficial&biw=1366&bih=623&tbm=isch&tbnid=AF7IjSPuwpUoqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.eleinmec.com/shop_category.asp%3F150-crimp-terminals&docid=sOPqNb13M1PV8M&w=150&h=150&ei=zoaITrGIKMrA8QOo5fQ1&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=366&page=11&tbnh=120&tbnw=120&start=219&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:219&tx=47&ty=54Basically im wondering if its worth stripping the wiring completly and starting again!
Ive never done a loom before, and was wondering how do I go about finding out what gauge wire I need, and wat sort of cost shall I expect?
Would it be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand Mk1 Escort loom and modify it like the original build, or just start from the beginning with reels of cable?
And help would be much appreciated!
Bruce
Advice above is good. My suggestion would be to NOT use the old fuse box (I removed a similar one from my Rickman Ranger as it kept giving issues) - use a new bladed fuse box. Certainly don't go the route of a second hand Escort loom (it will probably be no better than the one you've got!- getting one would be like finding hen's teeth anyway I'm sure.
If you can fit labels on all the connectors, and then remove the loom complete from the car and spread it over a large area (such as the garage floor) you may be able to get it all tidy, then one-by one replace the wires with new. It's not easy (but as others have said) it's satisfying. About 25 years ago I made a whole loom for an MGB based kit - I used a brand new Ford fusebox with all new relays and connectors (surprisingly cheap from main dealer), so it had 20 fuses and 6 relays capacity to replace the original 4 (or was it 5!) fuses of the MGB. At one stage I had a box of wire with about 50 different colours and 5 spreadsheets of info on the go - Only issue I had was when I'd wired the (ford fiesta) electric fan to run backwards
If you can fit labels on all the connectors, and then remove the loom complete from the car and spread it over a large area (such as the garage floor) you may be able to get it all tidy, then one-by one replace the wires with new. It's not easy (but as others have said) it's satisfying. About 25 years ago I made a whole loom for an MGB based kit - I used a brand new Ford fusebox with all new relays and connectors (surprisingly cheap from main dealer), so it had 20 fuses and 6 relays capacity to replace the original 4 (or was it 5!) fuses of the MGB. At one stage I had a box of wire with about 50 different colours and 5 spreadsheets of info on the go - Only issue I had was when I'd wired the (ford fiesta) electric fan to run backwards
I have some interesting electrics too;
https://youtu.be/iAe9dOQ6QgU
But Im hopeful its just a bad earthing. Does mean the car has a very distinctive feature, the draw back is it stall a lot as think the dizzy, fuel pump and all electrics are suffering. The problems of a plastic car.
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