RE: Cycling to be Encouraged
Wednesday 16th June 2004
Cycling to be Encouraged
Govt on the case
A package of new measures to increase levels of cycling and walking was announced today by Transport Minister Kim Howells.
The measures form part of 'Walking & Cycling: an Action Plan', which aims to promote these modes as healthy and convenient ways to travel.
The measures include:
- a programme of new links to extend the National Cycle Network to hundreds of schools;
- an investment of more than £500,000 to upgrade cycle provision at 200 rail stations;
- improved promotion of walking and cycling both locally and nationally, including a new web portal for those seeking information on where, how and why to cycle;
- better training in child pedestrian and cycling skills, including a new National Standard for Child Cycle Training;
- improved training for local authority transport staff in providing for, and promoting, walking and cycling.
- an amendment to the Traffic Management Bill, to give local authorities more powers to protect cycle lanes
The Traffic Management Bill amendment will provide local authorities with a power to impose penalty charges when vehicles are driven in lanes reserved for cyclists and when pedestrian and cycle crossings are blocked by parked vehicles. These are not new offences, police already have the power to enforce these offences, but this amendment would extend those powers to local authorities.
Discussion
Cycling is to be encouraged, eh? My natural reaction is to say "Good!" whilst also being very, very cynical.
Cycling is to be encouraged. As what, precisely? Transport? Or a leisure activity?
As a leisure activity it should (probably) be actively DISCOURAGED as (like anything else we do that's fun) its dangerous (you are on the road and vulnerable) you have to (shock horror) DRIVE YOUR CAR to wherever you start and then DRIVE YOUR CAR home again - wasting valuable petrol when you could just sit on your lardy arse and do nothing...saving valuable resources!
As a method of transport its bloody dangerous as you mix it with cars - so I'd say with more cyclists on the road those precious RTA statistics are going to take a battering.
However - I will welcome moves to create cycle lanes that aren't just some silly white line painted on the road - that's not a lane - that's an invitation to drivers to run the cyclists over!
I'll also welcome cycle lanes that actually join up so you can actually go somewhere on them.
At the moment I'd say the percentage of people who use cycles as transport vs a weekend toy could be numbered on the fingers of one hand...
Cycling is to be encouraged. As what, precisely? Transport? Or a leisure activity?
As a leisure activity it should (probably) be actively DISCOURAGED as (like anything else we do that's fun) its dangerous (you are on the road and vulnerable) you have to (shock horror) DRIVE YOUR CAR to wherever you start and then DRIVE YOUR CAR home again - wasting valuable petrol when you could just sit on your lardy arse and do nothing...saving valuable resources!
As a method of transport its bloody dangerous as you mix it with cars - so I'd say with more cyclists on the road those precious RTA statistics are going to take a battering.
However - I will welcome moves to create cycle lanes that aren't just some silly white line painted on the road - that's not a lane - that's an invitation to drivers to run the cyclists over!
I'll also welcome cycle lanes that actually join up so you can actually go somewhere on them.
At the moment I'd say the percentage of people who use cycles as transport vs a weekend toy could be numbered on the fingers of one hand...
Agree with you about the terrible state of cycle lanes in this country. The lanes need at the very least to be separated by a high kerb/island. Busses/Cars and bicycles do not mix safely on roads. And riding you bike is very unpleasant in these conditions.
Sounds like another meaningless initiative with lots of words of encouragement, what is needed is some innovative thinking and real action!! [not just talking about bikes here]
They have built some stupid bus lanes on the A64 in Leeds, that keeps them apart from cars using high kerbs and their own lanes and lights, poor bikers have to mix with traffic on a stop start, where is it now red tarmac lane!
Rant over
Sounds like another meaningless initiative with lots of words of encouragement, what is needed is some innovative thinking and real action!! [not just talking about bikes here]
They have built some stupid bus lanes on the A64 in Leeds, that keeps them apart from cars using high kerbs and their own lanes and lights, poor bikers have to mix with traffic on a stop start, where is it now red tarmac lane!
Rant over
hoganscrogan said:
Agree with you about the terrible state of cycle lanes in this country. The lanes need at the very least to be separated by a high kerb/island.
... and paid for by cyclists, not by syphoning off more money from motorists.
And while "they're" enforcing the law for cyclists benefit, how about "they" enforce the laws that cyclists routinely ignore; that is, all of them.
I sort-of agree with this. If it encourages people to get some exercise instead of taking the bloody bus everywhere, or to enjoy a bit of countryside, or to stop the school run, it's a good idea.
However, if it's just another 'let's make motoring miserable' campaign, I've had enough.
I really don't want this to be an active encouragement for executives to turn up to work dressed in 1992-vintage lycra, sweating like a pig and late for meetings, then bother someone with a load of idealistic rubbish as an excuse as to why they're so inefficient and unpresentable, only for the Government to turn round and back them when they get sacked, it's just not on.
However, if it's just another 'let's make motoring miserable' campaign, I've had enough.
I really don't want this to be an active encouragement for executives to turn up to work dressed in 1992-vintage lycra, sweating like a pig and late for meetings, then bother someone with a load of idealistic rubbish as an excuse as to why they're so inefficient and unpresentable, only for the Government to turn round and back them when they get sacked, it's just not on.
When a lad at school, we weren't allowed to cycle to school until we'd passed the Cycling Proficiency test. Do you think many of the people cycling around today have even heard of the bloody thing?
Was driving my girlfriend back to work this lunch time and happened across a cyclist at a point where I couldn't safely pass. Proceeded to watch him cut across the road to turn right at a roundabout. Twice. Both times without even looking over his shoulder, let alone signalling in any way.
But had I been passing him at the time and he come off, who would have been to blame?
If all of this does come to pass and people are made aware of their obligations under the highway code as cyclists then it's great. But I feel my hat will be safe from garnish.
Was driving my girlfriend back to work this lunch time and happened across a cyclist at a point where I couldn't safely pass. Proceeded to watch him cut across the road to turn right at a roundabout. Twice. Both times without even looking over his shoulder, let alone signalling in any way.
But had I been passing him at the time and he come off, who would have been to blame?
If all of this does come to pass and people are made aware of their obligations under the highway code as cyclists then it's great. But I feel my hat will be safe from garnish.
Any support for cyclsts is to be encouraged. I live in the middle of a city and use flashing lights and flourescent clothing whenever I cycle in anything other than blazing sunshine. STILL I get cars pulling out in front of me and cutting across the lane in which I am riding. Buses routinely ignore everyone on the roads other than other buses and are frankly dangerous. Hence the number of fatalities and injuries to cyclists flying up in recent years.
Bus/cycle lanes are suicidal places and I stay well out of them, adopting a road position more similar to motorbikes (I can get away with this as I can comfortably keep up with most cars in city traffic).
After a while cyclists get p!ssed off with the treatment they receive on the roads and bend the rules. I routinely ride in pedestrian areas (not when busy - then I get off and walk) and down tram-only routes. I avoid the cycle lanes unless they are physically separated from roads. Why? Because:
1. I prefer to get places in one piece rather than squashed by a bus.
2. I like to get there quickly.
3. I don't like sucking in diesel fumes from sh@gged-out smoky buses.
And frankly I think motorists should pay for better routes. If lardy car owners weren't using their cars to go EVERYWHERE including the corner shop to procure more lard / deliver Tabatha to the local school we wouldn't need cycle lanes. People need to rethink how they use cars, but then I guess changes in oil supply will force a change.
Bus/cycle lanes are suicidal places and I stay well out of them, adopting a road position more similar to motorbikes (I can get away with this as I can comfortably keep up with most cars in city traffic).
After a while cyclists get p!ssed off with the treatment they receive on the roads and bend the rules. I routinely ride in pedestrian areas (not when busy - then I get off and walk) and down tram-only routes. I avoid the cycle lanes unless they are physically separated from roads. Why? Because:
1. I prefer to get places in one piece rather than squashed by a bus.
2. I like to get there quickly.
3. I don't like sucking in diesel fumes from sh@gged-out smoky buses.
And frankly I think motorists should pay for better routes. If lardy car owners weren't using their cars to go EVERYWHERE including the corner shop to procure more lard / deliver Tabatha to the local school we wouldn't need cycle lanes. People need to rethink how they use cars, but then I guess changes in oil supply will force a change.
There are good and bad car drivers and good and bad cyclists. I have been cycling 20 years. I was a service engineer for 10 years driving 30000+ miles a year but was getting more and more stressed with the driving. I now work back in a factory and commute 30 miles a day by bike on A roads.
I choose to cycle to work to keep fit, reduce my fuel bill for the car (5 litre TVR Griffith) and to reduce the number of cars on the road making un-necessary journeys so the roads are emptier for those making necessary journeys ie service engineers.
I agree with the views on the useless cycle lanes and the worst thing for my life expectancy is all the traffic calming/pinch points as all this does is cause the bad car drivers to pass me even closer.
I pay road tax etc but just because on a given day i choose to cycle and not drive does not mean I don't have a "right" to be on the road.
All I ask is for drivers to drive with care and attention. All the speed propergander is bullshit. Some of my close calls have been with cars driving slowly by me but too close. Cars can pass at 100mph as long as they are well onto the other side of the road.
Give cyclists room. It won't cost you any time to wait for the oncoming traffic to clear to be able to cross the white line to pass a cyclist. Odds on you will be stuck behind a slow car/bus etc after passing.
The bottom line is a bad car driver can kill a cyclist but it is unlikely a bad cyclist can kill a car driver.
Rant over.
Will ride to work Thursday and Friday and then next week take the car to Zolder for a track day. Cylists and car drivers can mix. You may even find most cyclists also drive!!!
I choose to cycle to work to keep fit, reduce my fuel bill for the car (5 litre TVR Griffith) and to reduce the number of cars on the road making un-necessary journeys so the roads are emptier for those making necessary journeys ie service engineers.
I agree with the views on the useless cycle lanes and the worst thing for my life expectancy is all the traffic calming/pinch points as all this does is cause the bad car drivers to pass me even closer.
I pay road tax etc but just because on a given day i choose to cycle and not drive does not mean I don't have a "right" to be on the road.
All I ask is for drivers to drive with care and attention. All the speed propergander is bullshit. Some of my close calls have been with cars driving slowly by me but too close. Cars can pass at 100mph as long as they are well onto the other side of the road.
Give cyclists room. It won't cost you any time to wait for the oncoming traffic to clear to be able to cross the white line to pass a cyclist. Odds on you will be stuck behind a slow car/bus etc after passing.
The bottom line is a bad car driver can kill a cyclist but it is unlikely a bad cyclist can kill a car driver.
Rant over.
Will ride to work Thursday and Friday and then next week take the car to Zolder for a track day. Cylists and car drivers can mix. You may even find most cyclists also drive!!!
I once watched some well meaning man cycling with his entire family on a busy, winding, North Yorkshire A road. There they were like a family of ducks all the way back to his little son aged all of about 6, wobbling and pedalling frantically on his un-geared cycle to keep up whilst lorries thundered by. I became so enraged I felt like attacking the bearded fool with my bare hands.
There is a time and place.
There is a time and place.
I just think that a lot of cyclists literally don't believe that the Highway Code applies to them. Ignoring signals and riding on pavements is as illegal for cyclists as it is for cars.
When I cycle, I anally stick to the rules because I don't want to be a hypocrite but to be honest, I try to avoid using the road at all. I think we should have more cycle routes that are not on the roads. This'd encourage more people to cycle.
When I cycle, I anally stick to the rules because I don't want to be a hypocrite but to be honest, I try to avoid using the road at all. I think we should have more cycle routes that are not on the roads. This'd encourage more people to cycle.
timarrowsmith said:
Any support for cyclsts is to be encouraged. I live in the middle of a city and use flashing lights and flourescent clothing whenever I cycle in anything other than blazing sunshine. STILL I get cars pulling out in front of me and cutting across the lane in which I am riding. Buses routinely ignore everyone on the roads other than other buses and are frankly dangerous. Hence the number of fatalities and injuries to cyclists flying up in recent years.
Bus/cycle lanes are suicidal places and I stay well out of them, adopting a road position more similar to motorbikes (I can get away with this as I can comfortably keep up with most cars in city traffic).
After a while cyclists get p!ssed off with the treatment they receive on the roads and bend the rules. I routinely ride in pedestrian areas (not when busy - then I get off and walk) and down tram-only routes. I avoid the cycle lanes unless they are physically separated from roads. Why? Because:
1. I prefer to get places in one piece rather than squashed by a bus.
2. I like to get there quickly.
3. I don't like sucking in diesel fumes from sh@gged-out smoky buses.
And frankly I think motorists should pay for better routes. If lardy car owners weren't using their cars to go EVERYWHERE including the corner shop to procure more lard / deliver Tabatha to the local school we wouldn't need cycle lanes. People need to rethink how they use cars, but then I guess changes in oil supply will force a change.
Excellent post!
I cycle 12 miles a day for work. That's 3120 miles per year. I wear a flo jacket and have another pulled firmly over my rucksack. I also wear a helmet and have the latest LED lights. I hardly ever cross red lights or cycle on the pavement.
My route to work includes Newcross and The old kent road and i have to say that many drivers on that route seem totally obliviouse to anything other than the 101 distractions inside their car.
I don't cause any congestion, pollution or destruction to the roads. Although i love 'proper' cars i take great delight in getting to and from work in a third of the time that a car or public transport takes with all the added benefits of health, weight loss etc.
Just a thought off the top of my head but there would be no need for congestion charge if Ken brought in a 2 person per car min rule ( as is enforced in some places in the usa ). I havn't really thought about all the pros and cons of that one but there are bound to be many of each. In fact!
apcouldwell said:Generally agree with your post, but on this point I think it's far too simplistic. What you've said is right enough, BUT a bad cyclist can kill themselves and the driver is likely to be blamed.
The bottom line is a bad car driver can kill a cyclist but it is unlikely a bad cyclist can kill a car driver.
LexSport said:
The bottom line is a bad car driver can kill a cyclist but it is unlikely a bad cyclist can kill a car driver.
Generally agree with your post, but on this point I think it's far too simplistic. What you've said is right enough, BUT a bad cyclist can kill themselves and the driver is likely to be blamed.
I did cycling proficiency at school, and to be honest I learnt nothing new - all they told me was that I shouldn't cycle so fast (is there anything more annoying that cyclists going at walking pace on the road? What's the point?)
However, if cycling proficiency became like a driving licence, and if you were caught cycling badly you would be forced to take it and pass again by the BIB, I would be more supportive.
timarrowsmith said:
Some interesting stats from the paper today:
- 25% of all car journeys are under a mile
- 42% of journeys are under two miles
Its not really that surprising we have an obesity problem is it.....
I tend to agree with this. Journies of less than a mile would seem walkable for most, though it does depend on health. Two miles is different -- if you have a bike and are not carrying bags then you could cycle it, but most people would not walk. But how many adults actually have a bike? I don't. I don't see the need to invest in one given I live in a village and my journies are generally either less than a mile or over 100 miles (OK, and some 5-10 mile journies at weekends for shopping).
BTW, what wonderful government commitment to cycling is demonstrated by a whole £500k investment in cycle provision at 200 stations. That's £2.5k/station. What can you do with that other than paint a few more white lines and put up a cycle rack?
timarrowsmith said:
Some interesting stats from the paper today:
- 25% of all car journeys are under a mile
- 42% of journeys are under two miles
Its not really that surprising we have an obesity problem is it.....
That's why I walk everywhere, relish a long, scenic car journey and have a certain distaste for single-purpose 'city cars'.
Buses won't solve congestion of any sort in towns. Walking will.
Peter Ward said:
...
BTW, what wonderful government commitment to cycling is demonstrated by a whole £500k investment in cycle provision at 200 stations. That's £2.5k/station. What can you do with that other than paint a few more white lines and put up a cycle rack?
I was recently told that a bus shelter was £4k ish so in terms of government / council efficieny I'd reckon this sounds like a couple of hoops in the ground to lock your bike to!
LexSport said:
The bottom line is a bad car driver can kill a cyclist but it is unlikely a bad cyclist can kill a car driver.
Generally agree with your post, but on this point I think it's far too simplistic. What you've said is right enough, BUT a bad cyclist can kill themselves and the driver is likely to be blamed.
Totally agree. That's why when I drive I am especially carefull around cyclists. They could make sudden changes of direction without warning and any coming together of car and bike would be blamed on the car driver no matter who was at fault . It's the same with cars and pedestrians. A pedestrian runs into the road pi**ed up and is hit by a car. Because the car was travelling 31mph in a 30 its the car drivers fault.
Cyclists can also make sudden changes in direction due to other circumstances ie pot holes, grates and side wind gusts etc A good rule of thumb is to imagine if the cyclist in front of you hit a pot hole and fell off in front of you or toppled sideways off their bike. Visualise the space they would fall into. THIS is the amount of room you should give them. A cyclist shouln't be able to reach out and touch your car. If he/she can then you are too close. Reduce your chances of being blamed for an accident.
It's the same sort of advice advance driving courses give when advising how to pass inattentive/poor drivers. Expect the unexpected and then whatever happens it won't be a surprise and you are prepared to take avoiding action.
Be courteous out there.
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