Cranial Osteopathy
Discussion
So my newborn twins won't stop crying. Relentless.
My wife and I are on the edge. We have tried different milks (comfort/soya), infant gaviscon, all the burping / expensive colic medicines etc. Nothing will comfort the poor mights who, even when they do finally go to sleep, groan, grunt and squirm around until the wake up in tears again.
They are 7 weeks old so a while to go before they "grow out of it" (the advice our GP gave us).
Then I read that they might both be in pain due to stresses on their heads during the birth process and that cranial osteopathy might help release these stresses and in turn the resulting pains elsewhere in the body.
From what I can see it involves a bit of head massage! I was pretty cynical but we have been told by at least 6 people that it worked wonders for their babies.
At £50 an hour privately it is not cheap but we are beginning to think it is worth a shot.
So has anyone else had any experiences of using this "alternative" treatment on their little champs and has it worked?
ETA - just realised I put this in the Lounge and it should be in Health Matters....sleep deprivation for you!
My wife and I are on the edge. We have tried different milks (comfort/soya), infant gaviscon, all the burping / expensive colic medicines etc. Nothing will comfort the poor mights who, even when they do finally go to sleep, groan, grunt and squirm around until the wake up in tears again.
They are 7 weeks old so a while to go before they "grow out of it" (the advice our GP gave us).
Then I read that they might both be in pain due to stresses on their heads during the birth process and that cranial osteopathy might help release these stresses and in turn the resulting pains elsewhere in the body.
From what I can see it involves a bit of head massage! I was pretty cynical but we have been told by at least 6 people that it worked wonders for their babies.
At £50 an hour privately it is not cheap but we are beginning to think it is worth a shot.
So has anyone else had any experiences of using this "alternative" treatment on their little champs and has it worked?
ETA - just realised I put this in the Lounge and it should be in Health Matters....sleep deprivation for you!
snake oil
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC156402...
Background
According to the original model of cranial osteopathy, intrinsic rhythmic movements of the human brain cause rhythmic fluctuations of cerebrospinal fluid and specific relational changes among dural membranes, cranial bones, and the sacrum. Practitioners believe they can palpably modify parameters of this mechanism to a patient's health advantage.
Discussion
This treatment regime lacks a biologically plausible mechanism, shows no diagnostic reliability, and offers little hope that any direct clinical effect will ever be shown. In spite of almost uniformly negative research findings, "cranial" methods remain popular with many practitioners and patients.
Summary
Until outcome studies show that these techniques produce a direct and positive clinical effect, they should be dropped from all academic curricula; insurance companies should stop paying for them; and patients should invest their time, money, and health elsewhere.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC156402...
Background
According to the original model of cranial osteopathy, intrinsic rhythmic movements of the human brain cause rhythmic fluctuations of cerebrospinal fluid and specific relational changes among dural membranes, cranial bones, and the sacrum. Practitioners believe they can palpably modify parameters of this mechanism to a patient's health advantage.
Discussion
This treatment regime lacks a biologically plausible mechanism, shows no diagnostic reliability, and offers little hope that any direct clinical effect will ever be shown. In spite of almost uniformly negative research findings, "cranial" methods remain popular with many practitioners and patients.
Summary
Until outcome studies show that these techniques produce a direct and positive clinical effect, they should be dropped from all academic curricula; insurance companies should stop paying for them; and patients should invest their time, money, and health elsewhere.
We used this for my eldest as he had an awkward birth, natural,ventouse then anything else they could try and ended up emergency caesarium and he cried a lot etc. My wife took him for several sessions on recomendation and the difference was amazing, even now hes extremely laid back!
I would recommend it
I would recommend it
Legend83 said:
So my newborn twins won't stop crying. Relentless.
My wife and I are on the edge. We have tried different milks (comfort/soya), infant gaviscon, all the burping / expensive colic medicines etc. Nothing will comfort the poor mights who, even when they do finally go to sleep, groan, grunt and squirm around until the wake up in tears again.
They are 7 weeks old so a while to go before they "grow out of it" (the advice our GP gave us).
Then I read that they might both be in pain due to stresses on their heads during the birth process and that cranial osteopathy might help release these stresses and in turn the resulting pains elsewhere in the body.
From what I can see it involves a bit of head massage! I was pretty cynical but we have been told by at least 6 people that it worked wonders for their babies.
At £50 an hour privately it is not cheap but we are beginning to think it is worth a shot.
So has anyone else had any experiences of using this "alternative" treatment on their little champs and has it worked?
ETA - just realised I put this in the Lounge and it should be in Health Matters....sleep deprivation for you!
It has helped friends of ours with screaming babies. I wouldn't be put off by the fact that scientists can't reproduce effects in labs - the anecdotal evidence suggests that it can work. Worth £50 for a try and if it doesn't work, it won't have done any harm (except to your wallet).My wife and I are on the edge. We have tried different milks (comfort/soya), infant gaviscon, all the burping / expensive colic medicines etc. Nothing will comfort the poor mights who, even when they do finally go to sleep, groan, grunt and squirm around until the wake up in tears again.
They are 7 weeks old so a while to go before they "grow out of it" (the advice our GP gave us).
Then I read that they might both be in pain due to stresses on their heads during the birth process and that cranial osteopathy might help release these stresses and in turn the resulting pains elsewhere in the body.
From what I can see it involves a bit of head massage! I was pretty cynical but we have been told by at least 6 people that it worked wonders for their babies.
At £50 an hour privately it is not cheap but we are beginning to think it is worth a shot.
So has anyone else had any experiences of using this "alternative" treatment on their little champs and has it worked?
ETA - just realised I put this in the Lounge and it should be in Health Matters....sleep deprivation for you!
Bluebarge said:
It has helped friends of ours with screaming babies. I wouldn't be put off by the fact that scientists can't reproduce effects in labs - the anecdotal evidence suggests that it can work. Worth £50 for a try and if it doesn't work, it won't have done any harm (except to your wallet).
Do you hear from all the slightly embarrassed people who it didn't work for? The ones who blew £200 on a few sessions with no results. OP, save your money, they will get better but cranial osteopathy will make absolutely no difference.
Bill said:
cranial osteopathy will make absolutely no difference.
The problem appears to be that you cannot guarantee that it won't make a difference! Anecdotal evidence does not equal data but the parents of the X babies for whom it worked will tell you to do one. And placebo isn't relevant here as you can't tell the baby that rubbing its head will cure it and show it qualifications. See the "problem"?Assuming it is 50 quid per child, use the 100 quid to hire a baby sitter and get some sleep. If you and the misses are more chilled then babies will be too.
Or try diluting the pee of a chilled baby 1 million times and then feed it to the babies. I'm guessing it will have a similar effect.
Or take both babies to the osteopath, get one massaged and one not, don't find out which is which and see if can tell the difference.
I guess I'm not helping much....
Or try diluting the pee of a chilled baby 1 million times and then feed it to the babies. I'm guessing it will have a similar effect.
Or take both babies to the osteopath, get one massaged and one not, don't find out which is which and see if can tell the difference.
I guess I'm not helping much....
I disagree with the people dismissing this, I am one of the most cynical people there is however we were prescribed this on the NHS (in Scotland not sure if this makes a difference) after he was also in a lot of pain and crying constantly for hours in the evening and after I think just one session (it was a while ago) he was much much better. For him they said it was a displaced bone in the roof of his mouth and caused by the pressure of being squeezed out that was causing him discomfort. All they did was massage it with there finger I guess as its so soft at a fw months old it moves it back into place.
Its well worth a try, wish we had done it sooner as he was obviously in pain as yours maybe by the sounds of it. Its just not worth giving it a go even if you do have to pay for it. Maybe worth asking the doctor though to see if it is availble on the NHS.
Its well worth a try, wish we had done it sooner as he was obviously in pain as yours maybe by the sounds of it. Its just not worth giving it a go even if you do have to pay for it. Maybe worth asking the doctor though to see if it is availble on the NHS.
RemainAllHoof said:
Bill said:
cranial osteopathy will make absolutely no difference.
The problem appears to be that you cannot guarantee that it won't make a difference! Anecdotal evidence does not equal data but the parents of the X babies for whom it worked will tell you to do one. And placebo isn't relevant here as you can't tell the baby that rubbing its head will cure it and show it qualifications. See the "problem"?The placebo effect is relevant because calmer parents, who are not stressed about bed-time because their lawn chimp has been cured, do do have an effect on said lawn chimp.
It certainly appeared on Ben - Bad Science - Goldacre's radar.
I wish it did work though as being the parent of a poorly sleeping lawn-chimp (two and a half years and counting) you do tend to start clutching at straws.
RemainAllHoof said:
Bill said:
cranial osteopathy will make absolutely no difference.
The problem appears to be that you cannot guarantee that it won't make a difference! Anecdotal evidence does not equal data but the parents of the X babies for whom it worked will tell you to do one. And placebo isn't relevant here as you can't tell the baby that rubbing its head will cure it and show it qualifications. See the "problem"?As far as placebo goes, it could be the parents are reassured and therefore calmer dealing with the child(ren).
rhinochopig said:
I've always liked the quote "The plural of anecdote is anecdotes and not data".
The placebo effect is relevant because calmer parents, who are not stressed about bed-time because their lawn chimp has been cured, do do have an effect on said lawn chimp.
It certainly appeared on Ben - Bad Science - Goldacre's radar.
I wish it did work though as being the parent of a poorly sleeping lawn-chimp (two and a half years and counting) you do tend to start clutching at straws.
That's the quote I was trying to remember. The placebo effect is relevant because calmer parents, who are not stressed about bed-time because their lawn chimp has been cured, do do have an effect on said lawn chimp.
It certainly appeared on Ben - Bad Science - Goldacre's radar.
I wish it did work though as being the parent of a poorly sleeping lawn-chimp (two and a half years and counting) you do tend to start clutching at straws.
So the research suggests that calmer parents leads to quieter babies? So as a suffering parent, why don't you go for meditation classes or something similar?
RemainAllHoof said:
rhinochopig said:
I've always liked the quote "The plural of anecdote is anecdotes and not data".
The placebo effect is relevant because calmer parents, who are not stressed about bed-time because their lawn chimp has been cured, do do have an effect on said lawn chimp.
It certainly appeared on Ben - Bad Science - Goldacre's radar.
I wish it did work though as being the parent of a poorly sleeping lawn-chimp (two and a half years and counting) you do tend to start clutching at straws.
That's the quote I was trying to remember. The placebo effect is relevant because calmer parents, who are not stressed about bed-time because their lawn chimp has been cured, do do have an effect on said lawn chimp.
It certainly appeared on Ben - Bad Science - Goldacre's radar.
I wish it did work though as being the parent of a poorly sleeping lawn-chimp (two and a half years and counting) you do tend to start clutching at straws.
So the research suggests that calmer parents leads to quieter babies? So as a suffering parent, why don't you go for meditation classes or something similar?
That said, with our lad, he's not so much a crier, it's more that he just doesn't appear to need a lot of sleep. As soon as his eyes are open, as far as he is concerned, it's play time. He's like a bloody Husky or Collie in that you have to exercise him physically and mentally all day to get him tired enough to sleep well. If you don't he wakes up too early.
rhinochopig said:
I wasn't quoting research merely suggesting a possible placebo effect. Although it does seem a reasonable theory.
That said, with our lad, he's not so much a crier, it's more that he just doesn't appear to need a lot of sleep. As soon as his eyes are open, as far as he is concerned, it's play time. He's like a bloody Husky or Collie in that you have to exercise him physically and mentally all day to get him tired enough to sleep well. If you don't he wakes up too early.
Ah, right. Sounds like he has a lot of energy. Sounds like fun. That said, with our lad, he's not so much a crier, it's more that he just doesn't appear to need a lot of sleep. As soon as his eyes are open, as far as he is concerned, it's play time. He's like a bloody Husky or Collie in that you have to exercise him physically and mentally all day to get him tired enough to sleep well. If you don't he wakes up too early.
Legend83 said:
Booked for Friday morning.
What the f
k, lets give it a go! Then at least I can come back and tell you all not to bother wasting your money.
Good stuff. What the f
k, lets give it a go! Then at least I can come back and tell you all not to bother wasting your money.Right, lets do this properly
. Keep a very detailed diary of the routine you use tonight and tomorrow and record how he / she sleeps. Get the head rub done and then follow exactly the same routine and see if there is a difference. Make sure you replicate any bickering / fall outs over whose turn it is for bath time etc.
Then report back
And ask them for an explanation for how it works
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