Discussion
Is it just me or are the 997 prices especially the lower end of the market dropping ??
I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
keysersoze said:
Is it just me or are the 997 prices especially the lower end of the market dropping ??
I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
997 prices will keep falling, but they won't fall off a cliff due to the eye-watering price of a half-sensible 991.I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
The leggier cars will fall away from the lower mileage good examples, in my opinion. However, I suspect the market is slow generally at the moment because would-be buyers are waiting for a discount that won't arrive.
mollytherocker said:
There are currently 713 for sale in the PH classifieds, more than any other model.
Add that to the engine scares and you have your answer.
MTR
There is no other model where the market is anticipating a new model discount.Add that to the engine scares and you have your answer.
MTR
The engine scares are a straw man, IMHO, and only a problem for those without a warranty. Unforunately, owning a late 911 without cover is a risk, but then when has the 911 ever been a car for those on a limited budget? When it becomes so is when the 911 loses its cachet.
We get a lot of people who ask us about likely prices when the new model hits the roads. The answer, as has already been hinted at, is that there won't be any sudden decrease in value as a result. In fact ironically you could even see a slight rise as the new car generates interest in Porsches generally and buyers think, "Oh yeah I'll buy a Porsche !"
There is a massive difference between the price of a new 991 and that of a second hand 997. You won't see too many used ones on the open market for a good while either. Look at the Panamera, a couple of years on and the second hand market is still contained within, and upheld by the main dealer network. So in reality you're going to have to wait probably 3 years or more before sensible numbers of 991 model 911s start appearing on the open market.
As for super cheap cars coming on the market there is always a reason. If it's that much of a bargain then why didn't the seller just give us or someone like us a call? All done in 20 minutes, money fired straight into their bank account via CHAPS and there's no come back if the wheels fall off a week down the line! Why would you sit by the phone, put yourself at risk and jump through hoops to give the car away? Rarely have I seen people say, "It's bloody horrible" in the advert. Look at the way people try to wriggle out of the fact that the car has been an insurance write off (if they declare it at all in the ad).
Henry
There is a massive difference between the price of a new 991 and that of a second hand 997. You won't see too many used ones on the open market for a good while either. Look at the Panamera, a couple of years on and the second hand market is still contained within, and upheld by the main dealer network. So in reality you're going to have to wait probably 3 years or more before sensible numbers of 991 model 911s start appearing on the open market.
As for super cheap cars coming on the market there is always a reason. If it's that much of a bargain then why didn't the seller just give us or someone like us a call? All done in 20 minutes, money fired straight into their bank account via CHAPS and there's no come back if the wheels fall off a week down the line! Why would you sit by the phone, put yourself at risk and jump through hoops to give the car away? Rarely have I seen people say, "It's bloody horrible" in the advert. Look at the way people try to wriggle out of the fact that the car has been an insurance write off (if they declare it at all in the ad).
Henry
keysersoze said:
Is it just me or are the 997 prices especially the lower end of the market dropping ??
I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
The odd car that's clearly priced well below other examples is likely to have a few hidden secrets, so I wouldn't take too much notice of a £20K 997 at the moment. But they are normal used cars and used cars depreciate as a fact of life. Early 997s are starting to age a bit now and with that comes a wider spread in condition of what are on paper identical cars.I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
keysersoze said:
bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there
Classic 'Cheap Porsche so must not be any good' mistake! While low mileage would always result in a more expensive car, it doesn't follow that it's a good one, well looked after. Porsches wear mileage a lot better than most other performance cars, but key is History, Condition, Spec, Mileage IN THAT ORDER. A 5 year old low miles 997 may look like a good buy, but 20k service intervals might have resulted in minor items being skipped at servicing - yes it happens.The other consideration is how long you're likely to own the car against how often you intend to use it.
As for prices dropping lower, well it probably will happen, as there's been far more of the 997 than any previous series 911 but, as Henry-F says, the 991 may lead people into the 997 as a consequence of publicity for the newer model so you never know.
Henry-F said:
We get a lot of people who ask us about likely prices when the new model hits the roads. The answer, as has already been hinted at, is that there won't be any sudden decrease in value as a result. In fact ironically you could even see a slight rise as the new car generates interest in Porsches generally and buyers think, "Oh yeah I'll buy a Porsche !"
There is a massive difference between the price of a new 991 and that of a second hand 997. You won't see too many used ones on the open market for a good while either. Look at the Panamera, a couple of years on and the second hand market is still contained within, and upheld by the main dealer network. So in reality you're going to have to wait probably 3 years or more before sensible numbers of 991 model 911s start appearing on the open market.
As for super cheap cars coming on the market there is always a reason. If it's that much of a bargain then why didn't the seller just give us or someone like us a call? All done in 20 minutes, money fired straight into their bank account via CHAPS and there's no come back if the wheels fall off a week down the line! Why would you sit by the phone, put yourself at risk and jump through hoops to give the car away? Rarely have I seen people say, "It's bloody horrible" in the advert. Look at the way people try to wriggle out of the fact that the car has been an insurance write off (if they declare it at all in the ad).
Henry
Agree 100%, There is a massive difference between the price of a new 991 and that of a second hand 997. You won't see too many used ones on the open market for a good while either. Look at the Panamera, a couple of years on and the second hand market is still contained within, and upheld by the main dealer network. So in reality you're going to have to wait probably 3 years or more before sensible numbers of 991 model 911s start appearing on the open market.
As for super cheap cars coming on the market there is always a reason. If it's that much of a bargain then why didn't the seller just give us or someone like us a call? All done in 20 minutes, money fired straight into their bank account via CHAPS and there's no come back if the wheels fall off a week down the line! Why would you sit by the phone, put yourself at risk and jump through hoops to give the car away? Rarely have I seen people say, "It's bloody horrible" in the advert. Look at the way people try to wriggle out of the fact that the car has been an insurance write off (if they declare it at all in the ad).
Henry
It's really not rocket science if it's cheap it's cheap for a reason, I called and spoke lot's of dealer's when looking for my 911 saw a fair few too I wanted a low mileage car with no drama's I.e. a good spec C2 which I now have but I had to spend over 30k. There are a few car's (05 2005) which is the same year as my car but they don't have 22000 miles on the clock a Two year OPC warranty, very good all round condition.
I got a good price when I traded in my previous Lotus for a reason, it had FLSH, fantastic condition and I was checkable as well as the car so I expected a good price for it as it was a very good car, it will be the same when I sell my Porsche you pay's your money you take your chance
Boggy
STiG911 said:
Classic 'Cheap Porsche so must not be any good' mistake! While low mileage would always result in a more expensive car, it doesn't follow that it's a good one, well looked after. Porsches wear mileage a lot better than most other performance cars, but key is History, Condition, Spec, Mileage IN THAT ORDER.
Yeah but if a particular car is for sale £5K below that of all similar specced cars of similar age & mileage there will be a good reason for it. Sellers often say they need the cash quickly and all that kind of stuff, but there's usually an underlying reason why they REALLY want to offload it in a hurry. A good £20K 997 with 50-60k genuine miles on the clock does not yet exist. £25K may be just possible for a private sale where the seller genuinely does need to sell in a hurry for personal reasons.I had a proper good look into early 997s as an alternative to a mint 996C4S and concluded that I'd need a £30K budget to get a really nice one privately or around £35K sourced from OPC. Obviously a high mileage example would be more like £25K privately and not a bad buy, but higher mileage cars are just not my thing.
keysersoze said:
Is it just me or are the 997 prices especially the lower end of the market dropping ??
I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
If you keep looking for another year they will be even cheaper......!I'm looking to buy my first 911 in February / March but have been window shopping for over a year now and noticed what seems like a big drop in the bottom end of the market 50-60k mile 05 plates for sub £25k & one this morning in the classifieds for £20.5k .... they may not be the best out there I understand this but surely the price can't be going much lower?? at this rate I may buy a GT3 996 to avoid heavy depreciation.
Edited by philcray on Thursday 6th October 13:43
uktrailmonster said:
Yeah but if a particular car is for sale £5K below that of all similar specced cars of similar age & mileage there will be a good reason for it. Sellers often say they need the cash quickly and all that kind of stuff, but there's usually an underlying reason why they REALLY want to offload it in a hurry.
Bit of a massive generalisation isn't it? People do need to get rid in a hurry, and judging by what you say if you do have something to hide the best thing to do to hide it is to price it mid market. Going too cheap will just highlight it.Some people simply do not care about squeezing the last couple of grand out of the deal, some people may sell, have a look online and see the bottom prices, and simply price it to be competitive.
There are loads of reasons it may be a good deal, look at the poster on here who got a pearler of a 996 for under ten grand.
Cheap cars should be investigated, not dismissed.
dazco said:
uktrailmonster said:
Yeah but if a particular car is for sale £5K below that of all similar specced cars of similar age & mileage there will be a good reason for it. Sellers often say they need the cash quickly and all that kind of stuff, but there's usually an underlying reason why they REALLY want to offload it in a hurry.
Bit of a massive generalisation isn't it? People do need to get rid in a hurry, and judging by what you say if you do have something to hide the best thing to do to hide it is to price it mid market. Going too cheap will just highlight it.Some people simply do not care about squeezing the last couple of grand out of the deal, some people may sell, have a look online and see the bottom prices, and simply price it to be competitive.
There are loads of reasons it may be a good deal, look at the poster on here who got a pearler of a 996 for under ten grand.
Cheap cars should be investigated, not dismissed.
You can investigate cheap cars if you like but in my experience very cheap looking cars are that way for a reason and as a smart dealer once told me, cheap POrsches are never cheap enough.
Manks said:
No I reckon uktrailmonster has it right here. Anyone needing cash quickly who has a sensible car will sell it to a dealer. Cash same day or next day. The reason that cheap cars appear in the classifieds is usually because dealers don't want them because they are rubbish.
You can investigate cheap cars if you like but in my experience very cheap looking cars are that way for a reason and as a smart dealer once told me, cheap POrsches are never cheap enough.
So the bloke with the lovely 996 for under ten grand never happened? He posted on here just the other day so I think he did happen.You can investigate cheap cars if you like but in my experience very cheap looking cars are that way for a reason and as a smart dealer once told me, cheap POrsches are never cheap enough.
dazco said:
So the bloke with the lovely 996 for under ten grand never happened? He posted on here just the other day so I think he did happen.
Don't know which thread you are referring to and there is a slim chance that he did pick up a desirable car below market value. But then I wouldn't expect to see a thread along the lines of, "Look at this Porsche I bought cheaply. Granted it smells of Benson and Hedges and the CAT D is a bit offputting but she shines nice don't she".A slim chance?
Tell you what I am going to do, I am going to bow down
I am going to bow down to the fact that you know the current mechanical and cosmetic state of every one of the seven hundred 997's that are out there, and I also bow down to the fact that you can do this simply from a ticket price that any member of Joe Public can put on their own car.
I also bow down to the fact that you are fully aware of the personal circumstances of these seven hundred people, and that they all fall into the few little categories you have made for them.
So there you have it forumites, judge not on condition, but on the price awarded to the car by it's owner.
Tell you what I am going to do, I am going to bow down
I am going to bow down to the fact that you know the current mechanical and cosmetic state of every one of the seven hundred 997's that are out there, and I also bow down to the fact that you can do this simply from a ticket price that any member of Joe Public can put on their own car.
I also bow down to the fact that you are fully aware of the personal circumstances of these seven hundred people, and that they all fall into the few little categories you have made for them.
So there you have it forumites, judge not on condition, but on the price awarded to the car by it's owner.
You can of course get a cheap 997 (Or any other car), its just more difficult and takes great care.
Having said that, the same care is needed on an expensive car!!! A high price does not necessarily = a good car!
Price is little guarantee of anything. Yes, beware a low price but condition is everything.
MTR
Having said that, the same care is needed on an expensive car!!! A high price does not necessarily = a good car!
Price is little guarantee of anything. Yes, beware a low price but condition is everything.
MTR
dazco said:
So what else do you know about the car? Miles, history, interior condition? Photos look OK don't they and they lead people like you to assume that the car is a bargain. It aint necessarily so. That is not to disrespect the car I am simply pointing out that you cannot tell much from snaps.To be clear about what I am saying, because it appears to have gone over your head, generally speaking cars that look very underpriced are that way not because they are bargains. There are always exceptions, but with a marque like Porsche there are fewer I would suggest than with something less prestigeous. It's simply supply and demand economics.
Having spent many years chasing about all over the country looking at seemingly cheap cars and bikes it was my experience that those priced cheaply were almost never the bargains. The bargains were those priced about right (or sometimes too high) but where the seller's situation had just changed for the worse.
There are additional and more complicated microeconomic forces at play in the 996 market, I suspect, than within the Porshce marque as a whole. I think and it will inevitably throw out some cheaper cars than the 993 or 997 (for different reasons).
Manks said:
There are always exceptions, but with a marque like Porsche there are fewer I would suggest than with something less prestigeous. It's simply supply and demand economics.
Can you explain your reasoning behind this please. Though to be honest neither of us are going to see each others view point, not a bad thing, just the way of the world.
As an aside, I look on the BCA site most weeks to have a look what 911's are going through, normally there is between 4-6, this week there are 18.
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