West Midlands police bleating about cuts and yet .........
Discussion
I sent this email to the BBC Midlands Today news room yesterday as they were spreading doom and gloom about the potential cuts to the West Midlands Police Service.
They did the same again today.
"Today, whilst complaining about the cuts, the West Midlands Police have been advertising for 4 new senior members of staff, all civilian posts, with all four in the Salary Band of up to £55,000 plus pension plus benefits.
Thats about £300,000 worth of non police, non front line new posts.
How can the police authority have the nerve to complain about cost savings when they are wasting money on non front line staff.
They obviously didn't need this staff before now so why do they need a Head of Service Delivery, Head of Architecture etc etc.
Perhaps you may want to ask the Chief Constable?"
I did get an acknowledgement of the email but it seems the news item contained therein did not fit in with the current BBC news agenda.
They were interviewing the Assistant Chief Constable today about the cuts and I would have loved to heard his justification for the four new "heads" versus keeping some experienced policemen on the beat.
Unfortunately this bit of news was not discussed. I wonder why?
Cheers,
Tony
They did the same again today.
"Today, whilst complaining about the cuts, the West Midlands Police have been advertising for 4 new senior members of staff, all civilian posts, with all four in the Salary Band of up to £55,000 plus pension plus benefits.
Thats about £300,000 worth of non police, non front line new posts.
How can the police authority have the nerve to complain about cost savings when they are wasting money on non front line staff.
They obviously didn't need this staff before now so why do they need a Head of Service Delivery, Head of Architecture etc etc.
Perhaps you may want to ask the Chief Constable?"
I did get an acknowledgement of the email but it seems the news item contained therein did not fit in with the current BBC news agenda.
They were interviewing the Assistant Chief Constable today about the cuts and I would have loved to heard his justification for the four new "heads" versus keeping some experienced policemen on the beat.
Unfortunately this bit of news was not discussed. I wonder why?
Cheers,
Tony
I'm not sure what your complaint is. Are you suggesting that everyone working for the police should be warrant card holders? Or that the police can function without senior administrative staff? If what you say is correct and these are senior administrative staff then the function would have to be provided by the rank of superintendent who would be unskilled in the role and would be more costly.
Perhaps these three new staff are actually putting uniformed supers out onto division.
These staff might well be the senior civilian staff member at a division, providing all the administrative functions required by such a large organisation. We don't know.
Government policy has been to replace police officers with civilians in all those tasks that do not require a warrant card. And division is divided into two main sections: officers and civvies. The civilian side is run by civilians in the main. Most forces import trained personel at secior admin level rather than train them internally, this normally being the cheaper method. However, for their responsibility level they could often get bettr paid jobs in the private sector so some training, or taking on less experienced staff, was the norm in my force.
So in effect this is a non-story as it might well have been forced on the force my the 20%+ cuts imposed by the government. As for bleating I would assume that this will come from these forums when the next riots occur. Certainly the response that the Mets in particular managed for the last lot will be well beyond reach.
Perhaps these three new staff are actually putting uniformed supers out onto division.
These staff might well be the senior civilian staff member at a division, providing all the administrative functions required by such a large organisation. We don't know.
Government policy has been to replace police officers with civilians in all those tasks that do not require a warrant card. And division is divided into two main sections: officers and civvies. The civilian side is run by civilians in the main. Most forces import trained personel at secior admin level rather than train them internally, this normally being the cheaper method. However, for their responsibility level they could often get bettr paid jobs in the private sector so some training, or taking on less experienced staff, was the norm in my force.
So in effect this is a non-story as it might well have been forced on the force my the 20%+ cuts imposed by the government. As for bleating I would assume that this will come from these forums when the next riots occur. Certainly the response that the Mets in particular managed for the last lot will be well beyond reach.
If you think the cuts aren't having a massive effect on the Police, then you're very much mistaken and this is only year one. By the end of Cameron's three year plan, we'll be hanging on by our fingernails.
Start complaining when you've got Group 4 turning up in office hours. Cameron despises the Police and intends to have his full revenge for the bloody nose he got following the Sheehey report.
Start complaining when you've got Group 4 turning up in office hours. Cameron despises the Police and intends to have his full revenge for the bloody nose he got following the Sheehey report.
Elroy Blue said:
If you think the cuts aren't having a massive effect on the Police, then you're very much mistaken and this is only year one. By the end of Cameron's three year plan, we'll be hanging on by our fingernails.
Start complaining when you've got Group 4 turning up in office hours. Cameron despises the Police and intends to have his full revenge for the bloody nose he got following the Sheehey report.
Why do your comments always read like a police PR press release?. What are these made up office jobs care to enlighten us?. You are mad because the good years of money being thrown at the public sector are over, welcome to the real world mate. If it was down to me you would only get the part of the pension you had paid in adjusted for inflation, and you would work till 65 like the rest of us ( well older in most cases now).Start complaining when you've got Group 4 turning up in office hours. Cameron despises the Police and intends to have his full revenge for the bloody nose he got following the Sheehey report.
Uusual PH rabid response.
It's got toss all to do with pensions, pay and working conditions (all of which are being hammered)
It's everything to do with the Political lies and nonsense spouted by May and Cameron. May said in her conference speech that SHE has reduced Police paperwork. LIES. Cameron says 'back office' cuts will not effect the front line. LIES.
The back office roles being scrapped are scenes of crime through file preperation staff to front desk staff. ALL these roles will have to be filled by front line officers. When I need my 2 hour interview transcribed, I now have to sit down and do it. Takes me around 4 hours. I used to be able to send it to a typist and it reappeared the next day. Our equipment is falling apart and not being replaced.
Of course, we should thank May and Cameron for single handedly solving the recent riots. Of course their statements were LIES, but hey ho, there's plenty of the public who lap it up. I also look froward to your complaints when some 18 year old scrote gets away from a 65 year old Bobby.
You have no idea how front line Policing is being affected, so save your ranting for when you're a bit more informed.
It's got toss all to do with pensions, pay and working conditions (all of which are being hammered)
It's everything to do with the Political lies and nonsense spouted by May and Cameron. May said in her conference speech that SHE has reduced Police paperwork. LIES. Cameron says 'back office' cuts will not effect the front line. LIES.
The back office roles being scrapped are scenes of crime through file preperation staff to front desk staff. ALL these roles will have to be filled by front line officers. When I need my 2 hour interview transcribed, I now have to sit down and do it. Takes me around 4 hours. I used to be able to send it to a typist and it reappeared the next day. Our equipment is falling apart and not being replaced.
Of course, we should thank May and Cameron for single handedly solving the recent riots. Of course their statements were LIES, but hey ho, there's plenty of the public who lap it up. I also look froward to your complaints when some 18 year old scrote gets away from a 65 year old Bobby.
You have no idea how front line Policing is being affected, so save your ranting for when you're a bit more informed.
Elroy Blue said:
Uusual PH rabid response.
It's got toss all to do with pensions, pay and working conditions (all of which are being hammered)
It's everything to do with the Political lies and nonsense spouted by May and Cameron. May said in her conference speech that SHE has reduced Police paperwork. LIES. Cameron says 'back office' cuts will not effect the front line. LIES.
The back office roles being scrapped are scenes of crime through file preperation staff to front desk staff. ALL these roles will have to be filled by front line officers. When I need my 2 hour interview transcribed, I now have to sit down and do it. Takes me around 4 hours. I used to be able to send it to a typist and it reappeared the next day. Our equipment is falling apart and not being replaced.
Of course, we should thank May and Cameron for single handedly solving the recent riots. Of course their statements were LIES, but hey ho, there's plenty of the public who lap it up. I also look froward to your complaints when some 18 year old scrote gets away from a 65 year old Bobby.
You have no idea how front line Policing is being affected, so save your ranting for when you're a bit more informed.
Bloody well said !!It's got toss all to do with pensions, pay and working conditions (all of which are being hammered)
It's everything to do with the Political lies and nonsense spouted by May and Cameron. May said in her conference speech that SHE has reduced Police paperwork. LIES. Cameron says 'back office' cuts will not effect the front line. LIES.
The back office roles being scrapped are scenes of crime through file preperation staff to front desk staff. ALL these roles will have to be filled by front line officers. When I need my 2 hour interview transcribed, I now have to sit down and do it. Takes me around 4 hours. I used to be able to send it to a typist and it reappeared the next day. Our equipment is falling apart and not being replaced.
Of course, we should thank May and Cameron for single handedly solving the recent riots. Of course their statements were LIES, but hey ho, there's plenty of the public who lap it up. I also look froward to your complaints when some 18 year old scrote gets away from a 65 year old Bobby.
You have no idea how front line Policing is being affected, so save your ranting for when you're a bit more informed.
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you. You seem to be taking the line that these are management jobs and by de-facto 1970 union rules they are not required.
The both sound like IT positions, lets start with Head of Architecture, in IT solution architects are highly valued, they effectively map your estate and are the sign off point/gateway for all changes additions to the estate. This tends to be a largish team as there are many functions to cover. A good architect is invaluable. The head of this team will effectively take ownership for this team and will need to know his stuff, he will need to have an understanding of all areas and cover the general management and reporting of his teams activities. Without him they are all just a group of individuals.
Head of Service delivery, this is a key role in IT. The person will head up a large number of functions such as service desk, Incident Management, 2nd line support etc. He is responsible for ensuring that the business is delivered an accountable and stable service from IT. When things go wrong he is responsible for mobilising all resources to fix them. In simple terms, if the 999 line goes down, he is responsible for getting it fixed. Trust me here this is a tough and high pressure job. Alternatively everyone can run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is wrong while people die.
Suggest you get a life or do some research before wasting peoples time with stupid letters.
The both sound like IT positions, lets start with Head of Architecture, in IT solution architects are highly valued, they effectively map your estate and are the sign off point/gateway for all changes additions to the estate. This tends to be a largish team as there are many functions to cover. A good architect is invaluable. The head of this team will effectively take ownership for this team and will need to know his stuff, he will need to have an understanding of all areas and cover the general management and reporting of his teams activities. Without him they are all just a group of individuals.
Head of Service delivery, this is a key role in IT. The person will head up a large number of functions such as service desk, Incident Management, 2nd line support etc. He is responsible for ensuring that the business is delivered an accountable and stable service from IT. When things go wrong he is responsible for mobilising all resources to fix them. In simple terms, if the 999 line goes down, he is responsible for getting it fixed. Trust me here this is a tough and high pressure job. Alternatively everyone can run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is wrong while people die.
Suggest you get a life or do some research before wasting peoples time with stupid letters.
Elroy Blue said:
If you think the cuts aren't having a massive effect on the Police, then you're very much mistaken and this is only year one. By the end of Cameron's three year plan, we'll be hanging on by our fingernails.
Start complaining when you've got Group 4 turning up in office hours. Cameron despises the Police and intends to have his full revenge for the bloody nose he got following the Sheehey report.
Your police force must be pretty shocking then.Start complaining when you've got Group 4 turning up in office hours. Cameron despises the Police and intends to have his full revenge for the bloody nose he got following the Sheehey report.
NYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
elster said:
Your police force must be pretty shocking then.
NYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
Depends on who you believeNYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9226101.Forc...
chim said:
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you. You seem to be taking the line that these are management jobs and by de-facto 1970 union rules they are not required.
The both sound like IT positions, lets start with Head of Architecture, in IT solution architects are highly valued, they effectively map your estate and are the sign off point/gateway for all changes additions to the estate. This tends to be a largish team as there are many functions to cover. A good architect is invaluable. The head of this team will effectively take ownership for this team and will need to know his stuff, he will need to have an understanding of all areas and cover the general management and reporting of his teams activities. Without him they are all just a group of individuals.
Head of Service delivery, this is a key role in IT. The person will head up a large number of functions such as service desk, Incident Management, 2nd line support etc. He is responsible for ensuring that the business is delivered an accountable and stable service from IT. When things go wrong he is responsible for mobilising all resources to fix them. In simple terms, if the 999 line goes down, he is responsible for getting it fixed. Trust me here this is a tough and high pressure job. Alternatively everyone can run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is wrong while people die.
Suggest you get a life or do some research before wasting peoples time with stupid letters.
" They both sound like IT positions" The both sound like IT positions, lets start with Head of Architecture, in IT solution architects are highly valued, they effectively map your estate and are the sign off point/gateway for all changes additions to the estate. This tends to be a largish team as there are many functions to cover. A good architect is invaluable. The head of this team will effectively take ownership for this team and will need to know his stuff, he will need to have an understanding of all areas and cover the general management and reporting of his teams activities. Without him they are all just a group of individuals.
Head of Service delivery, this is a key role in IT. The person will head up a large number of functions such as service desk, Incident Management, 2nd line support etc. He is responsible for ensuring that the business is delivered an accountable and stable service from IT. When things go wrong he is responsible for mobilising all resources to fix them. In simple terms, if the 999 line goes down, he is responsible for getting it fixed. Trust me here this is a tough and high pressure job. Alternatively everyone can run around like headless chickens trying to figure out what is wrong while people die.
Suggest you get a life or do some research before wasting peoples time with stupid letters.
What if they are not? This means that your entire post was/ is worthless drivel.
Secondly if the posts are so crucial why are they not already in existence ?
Either way it appears that the police don't know how to run their operation or conversley are completely insensitive to the impression they give that they have to lay off numerous front line experienced staff only to recruit relatively highly paid management types.
BTW the jobs were not advertised in a specialised IT recruitment location but in a website specifically aimed at people with MBA's and general management experience.
So even if you are correct, and not talking drivel, the police service don't know how, or even where, to recruit the people they seek. Which only goes to show, yet again, a general level of incompetence.
May I therefore suggest that you do your research before criticising people for raising pertinent issues.
Cheers,
Tony
Citizen09 said:
elster said:
Your police force must be pretty shocking then.
NYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
Depends on who you believeNYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9226101.Forc...
Tony427 said:
" They both sound like IT positions"
What if they are not? This means that your entire post was/ is worthless drivel.
Secondly if the posts are so crucial why are they not already in existence ?
Either way it appears that the police don't know how to run their operation or conversley are completely insensitive to the impression they give that they have to lay off numerous front line experienced staff only to recruit relatively highly paid management types.
BTW the jobs were not advertised in a specialised IT recruitment location but in a website specifically aimed at people with MBA's and general management experience.
So even if you are correct, and not talking drivel, the police service don't know how, or even where, to recruit the people they seek. Which only goes to show, yet again, a general level of incompetence.
May I therefore suggest that you do your research before criticising people for raising pertinent issues.
Cheers,
Tony
Do you practice being an opinionated tWhat if they are not? This means that your entire post was/ is worthless drivel.
Secondly if the posts are so crucial why are they not already in existence ?
Either way it appears that the police don't know how to run their operation or conversley are completely insensitive to the impression they give that they have to lay off numerous front line experienced staff only to recruit relatively highly paid management types.
BTW the jobs were not advertised in a specialised IT recruitment location but in a website specifically aimed at people with MBA's and general management experience.
So even if you are correct, and not talking drivel, the police service don't know how, or even where, to recruit the people they seek. Which only goes to show, yet again, a general level of incompetence.
May I therefore suggest that you do your research before criticising people for raising pertinent issues.
Cheers,
Tony
t when you get up in the morning or does it just come naturally, you sound like one of those old grannies that spend their day writing to their local MP's moaning about anything that happens to piss them off that day and signing as disgusted, from ignorance street.You are making wild assumptions based on no knowledge of the advertised posts, new posts could be due to a multitude of reasons and does not mean they are creating "useless" management positions. Like all government posts they will have to be advertised on their general site. They will however no doubt be using specialist agencies to to find candidates as they well know that it is very unlikely that a solutions architect will just wander on to a police website looking for a job. As for my assumption, on the Architect position I would be very confident as they are not exactly in the building trade but do rely massively on IT, same goes for the Service delivery role.
My assumptions and description of the reasons for stated assumption are though far sounder than your wild accusation of money wasting on "useless management" .
Speaking of wasting public resources, many thanks for spending some of my license fee tying up some poor sods time at the BBC that had to respond to your drivel.
elster said:
Your police force must be pretty shocking then.
NYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
Really and where did you learn that little titbit.NYPA are managing fine. More police on the street now, the only scale back is teams being combined.
Just shows some people will believe anything . After all, a Government spokesman said "There is no question that the police will still have the resources to do their important work."
Gordon Brown also said he's abolished boom and bust!
The Police like any decent bureaucracy always want more powers.
Like any decent bureaucracy they also always want more money.
Overtime, the Police, like the NHS or Education will try to take a bigger and bigger slice of the pie of Government spending, and of course all hell breaks loose if a modest cut is proposed.
Tell me this then What was the police annual budget in 1997 and what is it in 2011?
Plotloss said:
If it is Head of Architecture and paying £55K it would explain a number of things.
Depending on where it is in the country you'd struggle to get a good development lead for £55K.
Agreed, think I would be more worried about the type of person that they are going to end up with. Depending on where it is in the country you'd struggle to get a good development lead for £55K.
Like you suggest, thats half the problem with public sector roles for specialised functions, no SA worth his salt would even look at this and they end up with badly qualified or worse incompetents running their services.
Gargamel said:
The Police like any decent bureaucracy always want more powers.
Like any decent bureaucracy they also always want more money.
Overtime, the Police, like the NHS or Education will try to take a bigger and bigger slice of the pie of Government spending, and of course all hell breaks loose if a modest cut is proposed.
Tell me this then What was the police annual budget in 1997 and what is it in 2011?
law and order budget 17 billion in 1996. http://archive.treasury.gov.uk/budget/1996/bib.htm...Like any decent bureaucracy they also always want more money.
Overtime, the Police, like the NHS or Education will try to take a bigger and bigger slice of the pie of Government spending, and of course all hell breaks loose if a modest cut is proposed.
Tell me this then What was the police annual budget in 1997 and what is it in 2011?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff