1800s on ebay

[THREEFISHORANGE]

As title says.

[heightswitch]

Seems a lot of dosh for a basket case but nothing surprises me these days!

No doubt it will sell.

N.

[Astacus]

That has got to hurt.

It looks in marginally better nick than my Vixen when I bought it. I don't know what he seller is after, but it cant be more than 6.5-7k, surely?

Maybe he doesnt really want to part with it!!

[THREEFISHORANGE]

Seem to be fetching some crazy money at present.

[THREEFISHORANGE]

[Fiscracer]

If it was a MkIII 1800S it would be a lot more than the asking price, as it could be used as a base for FIA GTS period F. Unfortunately for the owner it is not and a 1967 MkIV is worth about the same as a Vixen in similar condition, possibly less.

[Granturas]

I can not see that difference in prices as Fiscracer does. First I think a car is worth what someone pays for it. Second, we buy those toys because we like them and we like to play with these toys. Regarding FIA,I think it is just an organisation like the boxingassociation or footballassociation but motorsport is kept alive by the people who do it for their pleasure, either with or without FIA.
K.W.

[heightswitch]

Granturas said:

I can not see that difference in prices as Fiscracer does. First I think a car is worth what someone pays for it. Second, we buy those toys because we like them and we like to play with these toys. Regarding FIA,I think it is just an organisation like the boxingassociation or footballassociation but motorsport is kept alive by the people who do it for their pleasure, either with or without FIA.
K.W.

The reality is that the "average man" would not pay a kings ransome for a pile of bits to restore into a car that they liked. Some (read very very few) would but most see the cars for what they are. IE a working class mans sports car. The Pre 65 Fia classes of racing are very exclusive and cars which can be competitive and win races are often snapped up not necessarily by TVR enthusiasts but by enthusiasts who want to win. An AC Cobra, Flat Floor E type etc etc costs Hundereds of thousands to buy and then Hundereds of thousands to prepare and win.

A plastic Pig from Blackpool will cost 60 - 70k to prepare well and win so that leaves a bit more money in the gentleman racers kitty to buy some scrap with a log book...Hence prices rise beyond the means of most of us mere mortals.

Some say its a good thing because higher values means better restorations and more plentiful specialists and parts etc. Others don't Because in their view it takes the cars away from just as competant restorers who can no longer afford that particular model.

Which ever way you look at it Racing and success in a class pushes the calues up.

Grantura 2a's aren't as competitive...Not as expensive to buy.. Mk3 Granturas, Griffs...very competitive much more to buy....M series cars are getting older and are increasing in value because the knock on effect is that this is probably where Mr working class man is in the market right now hence more competition for the more affordable classic TVR.

Racing definitely pushes prices of cars up.

N.

[Granturas]

The question was, why is a Grantura MKIII 1800S more expensive than a Grantura MKIV? It would mean in your eyes that it is more competitive.
I think one can only compare cars you compete against. And you can only compare competing cars of the same level of modification. A Grantura MKIIa is still good enough to beat a Porsche 356 but a MKIII will not beat a Lotus Elan.
So a cheap TVR is more competitive than an expensive Porsche and an expensive Lotus blows off an expensive TVR. But to be honest, I really do not want to start a religious war. I love these old cars if they are competitive or not and especially the early Granturas with the VW suspension, because the missing competitiveness is a challenge for me.

K.W.

[heightswitch]

Granturas said:

The question was, why is a Grantura MKIII 1800S more expensive than a Grantura MKIV? It would mean in your eyes that it is more competitive.
I think one can only compare cars you compete against. And you can only compare competing cars of the same level of modification. A Grantura MKIIa is still good enough to beat a Porsche 356 but a MKIII will not beat a Lotus Elan.
So a cheap TVR is more competitive than an expensive Porsche and an expensive Lotus blows off an expensive TVR. But to be honest, I really do not want to start a religious war. I love these old cars if they are competitive or not and especially the early Granturas with the VW suspension, because the missing competitiveness is a challenge for me.

K.W.

Because MK3 can legitimately run in Pre 65 whereas a MK4 Cannot. Essentially same car but different elligibiity and therefor associated value. In Reality a MK4 also has some value, greater than a Vixen S1 for a more unscrupulous purchaser!!

I love them all too. But the fact is that Racing is pushing values away from affordable. Some say good and some say not good.

N.

N.

Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 13th October 15:42

[Fiscracer]

heightswitch said:

Granturas said:

The question was, why is a Grantura MKIII 1800S more expensive than a Grantura MKIV?

A Grantura MKIIa is still good enough to beat a Porsche 356 but a MKIII will not beat a Lotus Elan.

K.W.

Because MK3 can legitimately run in Pre 65 whereas a MK4 Cannot.

Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 13th October 15:42

Spot on Neil. Whether we like it or not cars which are competitive in pre 66 FIA racing drive the price up. It's supply and demand. The people who complain are generally those that can't afford them, however it has always been the case, it's just that the whole market has moved up.

I'm afraid a MkIII is not in the same class as an Elan.....however you might want to look at the price of a decent period F race Elan - well north of €100k. Compare that with one a few years later......or a pre 66 911......or an Marcos 1800GT.....or even an MGB: maybe £15k for a front running BCV8 racer versus £35k+ for a front running FIA race car

I am happy to be corrected but I don't think a MkIIa has a cat in hell's chance against a well sorted 356. Not in period and not today.

[Granturas]

It is going to become a very interesting and I fear an emotional discussion, so I believe it is better to continue "upon" a beer, once if we meet somewhere at a race meeting or carshow etc. Would be glad if we could meet once, either in UK or on a race track on the Continent.
Never the less, regarding the MKIIa and the Porsche the facts correct you.
K.W.

(The person discovering my spelling mistakes may keep them.)

[Fiscracer]

Granturas said:

Never the less, regarding the MKIIa and the Porsche the facts correct you.
K.W.

The only result for a Porsche 356 that means something to me is Lee Maxted Page at the Spa Classic in May this year. He did a 3.16.3; that's only 2 secs slower than I did in qualifying for the Six Hours in my MkIII and a lot quicker than some others have done in their MkIII Grannies. I can't see how a MkIIa with wonky suspension and an engine knocking out at least 20bhp less (and 150bhp 1600s are pretty rare) is going to get anywhere close.

I'm happy to be corrected - what's the best time for a MkIIa at Spa?

[heightswitch]

Now now.
The Porsche 356 and Granny are both examples of very fine british Automobiles.

N.

[thegamekeeper]

[/quote]

The only result for a Porsche 356 that means something to me is Lee Maxted Page at the Spa Classic in May this year. He did a 3.16.3; that's only 2 secs slower than I did in qualifying for the Six Hours in my MkIII and a lot quicker than some others have done in their MkIII Grannies. I can't see how a MkIIa with wonky suspension and an engine knocking out at least 20bhp less (and 150bhp 1600s are pretty rare) is going to get anywhere close.

I'm happy to be corrected - what's the best time for a MkIIa at Spa?

Hardly a valid statistical sample. 1 car, 1 circuit, 1 race, 1 driver.

Even with my limited experience of driving these things I could get close to 3 hours 16 minutes and 3 seconds round Spa, probably have to stop for a pee. So many of these discussions seem to end up a "my cocks bigger than yours" thread!

Porsche had probably had £50000 plus thrown at it. In essence both cars have the same basic "wonky suspension" set up. Both have 1600cc engines, one in the right place the other in a Porsche! Similar weight and TVR physically smaller.

[/quote]

Edited by thegamekeeper on Tuesday 18th October 17:13

Edited by thegamekeeper on Tuesday 18th October 17:13

[Fiscracer]

thegamekeeper said:

Hardly a valid statistical sample. 1 car, 1 circuit, 1 race, 1 driver.

Porsche had probably had £50000 plus thrown at it. In essence both cars have the same basic "wonky suspension" set up. Both have 1600cc engines, one in the right place the other in a Porsche! Similar weight and TVR physically smaller.

Edited by thegamekeeper on Tuesday 18th October 17:13

Quite, but I can find very few examples of 356 results and none for MkIIa's

Probably a lot more than £50k.....after all good road ones are now approaching £100k (Coys Blenheim July). To use your analogy, on paper a MkIII should beat an early 911 but I'm afraid it doesn't - I wish it.

Back to the point any MkIII is expensive because it is fairly competitive in GTS11 class in FIA racing and that drives the price, even for basket cases. A MkIV is in a later (period G) class and is not, hence the price differential. A MkIIa even less so, as it is in the same GTS11 class with a 1622 engine amd 'wonky suspension'. A 356B is in the earlier GTS5 class along with MGAs. An early Elan especially a 26R is almost untouchable in GTS10 under 1600 class hence prices of over £120k.

[Granturas]

There is a guy with name Peter Schulte he raced a lot in the late 80s , 90s and up to 2008 at the Nürburgring and I can't remember that he was ever beaten by a 356 Porsche. If you want more have a look in the net. I will try to find the link for the race results.
Klaus


Class: GT 4: bis 1.600 ccm
Started: 7 Classified: 7 Not Classified: 0
1 25 GT 4 Lotus Elan 12 26:38.312 2:10.766 2
Henrysson Thomas, S 125.358 km/h / kph
Brorsson Tommy, S
2 28 GT 4 Lotus Elan 26R 12 28:11.538 2:17.368 4
Müller Arlette, CH 1:33.226 +1:33.226 118.449 km/h / kph
3 241 GT 4 CHRSN Porsche 912 11 26:43.270 2:23.781 3
Weber Volker, Hamburg 1 Rd. 1 Rd. 114.556 km/h / kph
Witthöft Peter, Bad Oldesloe
4 27 GT 4 Lotus Elan 11 27:02.130 2:23.182 9
Atkins Nicholas, GB 1 Rd. +18.860 113.224 km/h / kph
Bateman Dr. Richard, GB
5 29 GT 4 TVR Grantura Mk I 11 27:53.181 2:28.582 3
Schulte Peter Gustav, Plettenberg 1 Rd. +51.051 109.770 km/h / kph
6 208 GT 4 Porsche 356B 11 27:53.322 2:27.863 11
Votteler Ande, Balingen 1 Rd. +00.141 109.761 km/h / kph
"DOC HOLIDAY" , Berlin
7 26 GT 4 Lotus Elan 9 20:06.785 2:12.109 4
Adamsson Roger, S 3 Rd. 2 Rd. 124.522 km/h / kph
Fastest Lap (in class): Str.-No.:25, Henrysson/Brorsson, 2:10.766 = 127.685