Are my ballpark build costs reasonable?
Discussion
Looking at an ex National Trust auction property that needs some work. Not a listed property though.
Obviously all pie in the sky at present and subject to auction price but can't stop thinking of it.
As far as I can see it would need:
1) Current kitchen (16x10ft) and breakfast room (16x10ft) to be knocked into one. So would need wall removing between the two (not a partition so assume load bearing). Estimate for builder to remove existing wall and put support in and make good for redecoration - £3,000
2) A new kitchen to be fitted to the larger room to include everything to a good quality standard. Estimate to include cost of kitchen, appliances and installation - £15,000.
3) There is an insubstantial 11x8ft conservatory sited next to a WC/utility area (10x6ft) that both are built on to the rear wall of the property with 'lean to' roofing. Subject to planning, would look to demolish current and replace with a more substantial single storey 'garden room' type extension with partial glazed roof (max 20x16ft) to incorporate a WC / utility area in one corner where current plumbing located. May also need to create two entrances (one widening an existing doorway, one creating an opening where a window currently located) to this new extention to give an open feel. Estimate (incl professional fees as I presume planning required) £25,000
4) The property has central heating on all of ground floor (newish looking double radiators) and for some reason only one room upstairs. I would guess that it needs new modern boiler plus the remainder of upstairs plumed in. Estimate £7,500.
5) New family bathroom, not moving location, to a good quality. Estimate for cost of bathroom and installation £5,000.
6) Redecoration throughout - 2,000 sq ft - we would be doing all prep work and actual painting ourselves, etc. So my estimate here to buy redecoration materials (paint, etc) plus carpets to do to a liveable standard is £5,000.
Overall therefore about £60k - anything above wholly unrealistic?
I can post up link to floor plans if anyone with any experience could spare the time to glance over.
Obviously all pie in the sky at present and subject to auction price but can't stop thinking of it.
As far as I can see it would need:
1) Current kitchen (16x10ft) and breakfast room (16x10ft) to be knocked into one. So would need wall removing between the two (not a partition so assume load bearing). Estimate for builder to remove existing wall and put support in and make good for redecoration - £3,000
2) A new kitchen to be fitted to the larger room to include everything to a good quality standard. Estimate to include cost of kitchen, appliances and installation - £15,000.
3) There is an insubstantial 11x8ft conservatory sited next to a WC/utility area (10x6ft) that both are built on to the rear wall of the property with 'lean to' roofing. Subject to planning, would look to demolish current and replace with a more substantial single storey 'garden room' type extension with partial glazed roof (max 20x16ft) to incorporate a WC / utility area in one corner where current plumbing located. May also need to create two entrances (one widening an existing doorway, one creating an opening where a window currently located) to this new extention to give an open feel. Estimate (incl professional fees as I presume planning required) £25,000
4) The property has central heating on all of ground floor (newish looking double radiators) and for some reason only one room upstairs. I would guess that it needs new modern boiler plus the remainder of upstairs plumed in. Estimate £7,500.
5) New family bathroom, not moving location, to a good quality. Estimate for cost of bathroom and installation £5,000.
6) Redecoration throughout - 2,000 sq ft - we would be doing all prep work and actual painting ourselves, etc. So my estimate here to buy redecoration materials (paint, etc) plus carpets to do to a liveable standard is £5,000.
Overall therefore about £60k - anything above wholly unrealistic?
I can post up link to floor plans if anyone with any experience could spare the time to glance over.
all are about right for doing the job but depends what you call "good quality standard" as you could easily spend £60k+ on the kitchen alone!!! top end bathrooms can be £20k+
so you can do all of the work for that money but would be looking at good quality B&Q/howdens/jewson type place for materials.
as said all depends on what you call good quality standard
Hope this helps
so you can do all of the work for that money but would be looking at good quality B&Q/howdens/jewson type place for materials.
as said all depends on what you call good quality standard
Hope this helps
I've fairly recently done 1 (but not load bearing), 2 and 5 to our own place to a 'good quality standard' but having done nearly all the work myself. Just to point out that I spent more than £15,000 on materials for 2, the wall knock down was the cost of a skip and some plasterboard (plus the skim of the whole ceiling which I didn't do) so can't really compare to your load bearing and paid for job. The bathroom (5) again wasn't far off your price for materials alone, I also moved every item to improve the layout as I took down an airing cupboard to increase the space, but the materials cost for this part was very small.
So it really depends on your definition of quality and just how cheaply you can get the work done: I was quoted £15k for the kitchen and that was with them starting after I'd striped and replastered it all, so a bare painted shell and didn't include floor tiles either. It's a similar size to yours too, so perhaps another 25% on top might be nearer the mark for a 'turn key' job?
Equally, a relative of mine paid £6k for a new bathroom that was pretty much a standard 'new build' quality and basic floor tiles. This was in the North East too, so prices a little cheaper there perhaps. It's neat and clean, but quite small and not what most would consider 'high quality'. So I wouldn't be surprised if you had to double your estimated cost for your bathroom price.
I can't comment on the other prices, though to me they look more realistic, so I'll be interested to see what others say about 3,4 and 6. In any case, if you get it make sure to put some pictures of the project up on here for use to nose at and good luck with it.
So it really depends on your definition of quality and just how cheaply you can get the work done: I was quoted £15k for the kitchen and that was with them starting after I'd striped and replastered it all, so a bare painted shell and didn't include floor tiles either. It's a similar size to yours too, so perhaps another 25% on top might be nearer the mark for a 'turn key' job?
Equally, a relative of mine paid £6k for a new bathroom that was pretty much a standard 'new build' quality and basic floor tiles. This was in the North East too, so prices a little cheaper there perhaps. It's neat and clean, but quite small and not what most would consider 'high quality'. So I wouldn't be surprised if you had to double your estimated cost for your bathroom price.
I can't comment on the other prices, though to me they look more realistic, so I'll be interested to see what others say about 3,4 and 6. In any case, if you get it make sure to put some pictures of the project up on here for use to nose at and good luck with it.
Cheers for the replies so far.
Points noted re definition of the level of quality. Would be a bit of a catch 22 since this would be our long term home so one could say it would pay to install something to last, but against this would be the short term pressure on cash funds!
Only experience I have had in this is changing bathroom in our current property. A couple of lessons I learnt is not to get carried away - we specced too high a standard for the property really (i.e. top of the range power shower with mister bar and other functions we never use, cistern hidden behind false panels with floating look WC, big chunky sink, underfloor heating, top spec tiles, etc). We could have achieved 90% of the result for 50-60% of the cost I think. Plus most of these have now caused us onging problems (i.e. shower pump, underfloor heating, etc).
Only thing I have found whilst google'ing the self build websites is a ballpark guide of £800-900 sq/m for single story extenstion to 'shell' or £1200-1400 sq/m for a 'finished' extension including plumbing, electrics and plastering. I think ours would total approx 30 sq/m so maybe I need to be looking at £35,000 not £25,000?? Particularly with it being a garden room type.....
Any more thoughts appreciated!
Points noted re definition of the level of quality. Would be a bit of a catch 22 since this would be our long term home so one could say it would pay to install something to last, but against this would be the short term pressure on cash funds!
Only experience I have had in this is changing bathroom in our current property. A couple of lessons I learnt is not to get carried away - we specced too high a standard for the property really (i.e. top of the range power shower with mister bar and other functions we never use, cistern hidden behind false panels with floating look WC, big chunky sink, underfloor heating, top spec tiles, etc). We could have achieved 90% of the result for 50-60% of the cost I think. Plus most of these have now caused us onging problems (i.e. shower pump, underfloor heating, etc).
Only thing I have found whilst google'ing the self build websites is a ballpark guide of £800-900 sq/m for single story extenstion to 'shell' or £1200-1400 sq/m for a 'finished' extension including plumbing, electrics and plastering. I think ours would total approx 30 sq/m so maybe I need to be looking at £35,000 not £25,000?? Particularly with it being a garden room type.....
Any more thoughts appreciated!
DanX5 said:
Cheers for the replies so far.
or £1200-1400 sq/m for a 'finished' extension including plumbing, electrics and plastering. I think ours would total approx 30 sq/m so maybe I need to be looking at £35,000 not £25,000?? Particularly with it being a garden room type.....
Any more thoughts appreciated!
I think that is a good move or £1200-1400 sq/m for a 'finished' extension including plumbing, electrics and plastering. I think ours would total approx 30 sq/m so maybe I need to be looking at £35,000 not £25,000?? Particularly with it being a garden room type.....
Any more thoughts appreciated!
As for kitc hens , a typical Howdens kitchen can be fitted for about 8- 9k , allow 15k for a reasonable one. Then you have floor and wall coverings to add,
then the dreaded 20% vat
Thanks, may work on £75k budget and work backwards from there to get to a max auction price.
For anyone interested this is a quick comparision of before and after of my plans:
Before
After
I have tried to indicate the idea of a 'garden room' type single storey extension with 3 skylights and WC retained in same position.
If (and I acceppt a big if!) we were succesful at auction where does one start - architect to draw up plans and get approval or straight to a builder (who could then give their thoughts prior to appointing an architect)?
For anyone interested this is a quick comparision of before and after of my plans:
Before
After
I have tried to indicate the idea of a 'garden room' type single storey extension with 3 skylights and WC retained in same position.
If (and I acceppt a big if!) we were succesful at auction where does one start - architect to draw up plans and get approval or straight to a builder (who could then give their thoughts prior to appointing an architect)?
OK you've looked at this from a cost point of view, but from an adding resale value point of view, I would consider:-
1) Building two floor extension, creating a new en-suite room, and either using bedroom 4 as a study or as an ensuite for bedroom 1. This way you get four decent sized bedrooms with some en-suites (and/or study) plus a family bathroom. Bathrooms help sell houses, and these days a four bed house with only a family bathroom will be marked down.
2) Remove the toilet bit from the 'garden room' as a) no-one really wants a toilet in the middle of a house and b) the garden room is a funny shape. Keeping this toilet because all the plumbing is there, isn't really a reason given your budget.
3) Re-locate new downstairs toilet where gateway into shed/shed is. That way you have access to the toilet direct from the garden as well as from the house. (Or even locate toilet/utility room along the East wall (left on your plan) and shrink the kitchen a bit, as you will have gained the space where the previous downstairs toilet was.
Then you can really open up the back of the house to create a large living space including kitchen.
Talk to a couple of local architects and estate agents about your ideas and potential impact on resale. If you're going to spend decent money, you might as well ensure that you get a return at the end of the day.
1) Building two floor extension, creating a new en-suite room, and either using bedroom 4 as a study or as an ensuite for bedroom 1. This way you get four decent sized bedrooms with some en-suites (and/or study) plus a family bathroom. Bathrooms help sell houses, and these days a four bed house with only a family bathroom will be marked down.
2) Remove the toilet bit from the 'garden room' as a) no-one really wants a toilet in the middle of a house and b) the garden room is a funny shape. Keeping this toilet because all the plumbing is there, isn't really a reason given your budget.
3) Re-locate new downstairs toilet where gateway into shed/shed is. That way you have access to the toilet direct from the garden as well as from the house. (Or even locate toilet/utility room along the East wall (left on your plan) and shrink the kitchen a bit, as you will have gained the space where the previous downstairs toilet was.
Then you can really open up the back of the house to create a large living space including kitchen.
Talk to a couple of local architects and estate agents about your ideas and potential impact on resale. If you're going to spend decent money, you might as well ensure that you get a return at the end of the day.
Thanks for the ideas.
I agree that the single bathroom limits the resale in a 4 bed house but as it stands can't quite fathom how to fit in an en-suite to existing layout. I have assumed that a two storey extension would multiply the cost by at least 2 as we would have to pretty much change the entire roof design?
There is plenty of space on the east side of the property so maybe when the time comes we could extend out that way to make it 5 bed / 3 bathroom.
I do like the idea of losing the WC out towards the rear although I had earmarked the 'shed' for an office. Again my initial assumption was that moving the plumbing / waste connections would make this prohibitive but might not be as bad as I am thinking as looking att the pic, it wouldn't take a lot to link to the existing drains.
I agree that the single bathroom limits the resale in a 4 bed house but as it stands can't quite fathom how to fit in an en-suite to existing layout. I have assumed that a two storey extension would multiply the cost by at least 2 as we would have to pretty much change the entire roof design?
There is plenty of space on the east side of the property so maybe when the time comes we could extend out that way to make it 5 bed / 3 bathroom.
I do like the idea of losing the WC out towards the rear although I had earmarked the 'shed' for an office. Again my initial assumption was that moving the plumbing / waste connections would make this prohibitive but might not be as bad as I am thinking as looking att the pic, it wouldn't take a lot to link to the existing drains.
Just had the legal sellers pack through from the National Trust and they have included an 'overage' agreement whereby 50% of any 'net development value' gets paid pback to them within the next 80 years!! Talk about having your cake and eating it!
Because of this the buyer would only obtain limited title rights so my mortgage broker says that this would severely limit the number of lenders should you need to raise finance, let alone the problems you would have selling on within the 80 year period.
Oh well, I can keep on dreaming! With these restrictions though I can't imagine too many people would be looking to make an offer though.....
Because of this the buyer would only obtain limited title rights so my mortgage broker says that this would severely limit the number of lenders should you need to raise finance, let alone the problems you would have selling on within the 80 year period.
Oh well, I can keep on dreaming! With these restrictions though I can't imagine too many people would be looking to make an offer though.....
Yeah, may well do.
Just reading through the overage agreement conditions this evening it seems that the 50% return of the uplift in development value would only be payable if planning permission granted and property sold or development commenced. It has got me thinking whether my plans above would be within 'permitted development' so thereby still getting what we want without triggeering any payment.
My very quick read of permitted development rules makes me think OK (i.e. total extension including existing <50% of curtilage/grounds of property, extension would be under existing roofline, doesn't front a highway, less than 1/2 width of existing dwelling, etc)?
Just reading through the overage agreement conditions this evening it seems that the 50% return of the uplift in development value would only be payable if planning permission granted and property sold or development commenced. It has got me thinking whether my plans above would be within 'permitted development' so thereby still getting what we want without triggeering any payment.
My very quick read of permitted development rules makes me think OK (i.e. total extension including existing <50% of curtilage/grounds of property, extension would be under existing roofline, doesn't front a highway, less than 1/2 width of existing dwelling, etc)?
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