Tippy tronic questions.....
Discussion
Just a cuple of Tiptronic questions.
1. Does a tip have the same IMS issues as the manual?
2. Is the tip in a N/A 911 TRULY gash, or is it OK? I know the manual would be more involving etc, but some auto cars are OK-would it be OK in a car that was for touring rather than out and out hooning? (Think wifes car and she likes auto)
Thanks
1. Does a tip have the same IMS issues as the manual?
2. Is the tip in a N/A 911 TRULY gash, or is it OK? I know the manual would be more involving etc, but some auto cars are OK-would it be OK in a car that was for touring rather than out and out hooning? (Think wifes car and she likes auto)
Thanks
The biggest problem you are going to face on a forum like this is the people worried about the size of their willies or the fact they once harboured secret desires for Smedley minor at school and so are s
tting themselves in case they are homosexual. They will instantly come on here vigorously defending the need for a Porsche to be fitted with a manual gearbox and preferably one with a short shift kit just to make it even more masculine.
As someone comfortable enough with their sexuality to hold the good lady wife's handbag when she's changing a flat tyre in pouring rain allow me to enlighten you as to my thoughts on the subject. Before anyone jumps on me don't forget my 996 cup car is manual and my 997 cup car has a sequential gearbox fitted so I do have other options in the stable
The good thing about a normally aspirated 6 cylinder Porsche engine is that it produces loads of torque low down in the rev range. This immediately reduces any chances of a non manual car getting bogged down. More recent tips have a 5 speed gearbox and not only do changes happen faster than in a manual car you don't have to lift off when changing gears so you can maintain engine momentum.
The gearbox is an adaptive one, it monitors your driving and alters it's gear shift pattern accordingly. If you are pottering around it gets you into a high gear as soon as it can, if you are pushing on it holds the gears longer. It's clever and won't change gear when you're cornering hard so as not to de-stabilise the car.
You can go into manual mode at any time, either all the time of temporarily whilst overtaking etc. You still get engine braking on the downshift. I think I'm right in saying that all tiptronics feature a limited slip differential as well.
Driving a tip requires a slightly different approach to driving a manual. The throttle pedal becomes your gear shift controller as well. A stab of the pedal induces a change down, fully depressing causes the car to go into the lowest possible gear and staying there for a while. The ECU measures throttle position change against time and if it detects a certain percentage change over a given period it drops you down a gear.
On paper the tip looks slower than a manual gearbox but the numbers are exactly what you'll get in the real world. To achieve the published times in a manual car you have to be pretty brutal.
Ultimately it's not for everyone but in the real world it's a great option, particularly if you live in an area with traffic issues. Most of the time you drive tips in "D" but if you fancy a mad 10 minutes the car will oblige.
Henry
tting themselves in case they are homosexual. They will instantly come on here vigorously defending the need for a Porsche to be fitted with a manual gearbox and preferably one with a short shift kit just to make it even more masculine.As someone comfortable enough with their sexuality to hold the good lady wife's handbag when she's changing a flat tyre in pouring rain allow me to enlighten you as to my thoughts on the subject. Before anyone jumps on me don't forget my 996 cup car is manual and my 997 cup car has a sequential gearbox fitted so I do have other options in the stable
The good thing about a normally aspirated 6 cylinder Porsche engine is that it produces loads of torque low down in the rev range. This immediately reduces any chances of a non manual car getting bogged down. More recent tips have a 5 speed gearbox and not only do changes happen faster than in a manual car you don't have to lift off when changing gears so you can maintain engine momentum.
The gearbox is an adaptive one, it monitors your driving and alters it's gear shift pattern accordingly. If you are pottering around it gets you into a high gear as soon as it can, if you are pushing on it holds the gears longer. It's clever and won't change gear when you're cornering hard so as not to de-stabilise the car.
You can go into manual mode at any time, either all the time of temporarily whilst overtaking etc. You still get engine braking on the downshift. I think I'm right in saying that all tiptronics feature a limited slip differential as well.
Driving a tip requires a slightly different approach to driving a manual. The throttle pedal becomes your gear shift controller as well. A stab of the pedal induces a change down, fully depressing causes the car to go into the lowest possible gear and staying there for a while. The ECU measures throttle position change against time and if it detects a certain percentage change over a given period it drops you down a gear.
On paper the tip looks slower than a manual gearbox but the numbers are exactly what you'll get in the real world. To achieve the published times in a manual car you have to be pretty brutal.
Ultimately it's not for everyone but in the real world it's a great option, particularly if you live in an area with traffic issues. Most of the time you drive tips in "D" but if you fancy a mad 10 minutes the car will oblige.
Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Monday 10th October 22:07
Henry-F said:
fully depressing causes the car to go into the lowest possible gear and staying there for a while.
That's one thing I hate about autos in general. Sometimes I like to floor it in say third gear from fairly low revs and just let the acceleration build up slowly to a crescendo. What I don't want in this scenario is a downshift to second (or even first), a screaming engine surge, followed by a shift back up the box. Basically I find kick-down on autos very annoying most of the time. 
uktrailmonster said:
That's one thing I hate about autos in general. Sometimes I like to floor it in say third gear from fairly low revs and just let the acceleration build up slowly to a crescendo. What I don't want in this scenario is a downshift to second (or even first), a screaming engine surge, followed by a shift back up the box. Basically I find kick-down on autos very annoying most of the time.
Move the stick to the left so it is in manual, then floor it from <2000 in 3. No kick down. I have no problems with Automatic cars whatsoever as my other cars are both autos..but for some unknown reason i wouldnt dream of buying an auto sports car,i cant really see the point as a large part of the driving experience is surely changing gear!If i spent most of my time driving in traffic or in town i wouldnt buy a sports car/Porsche anyway...actually the thing i dislike most about tippy Porsches is the noise they make..for some unknown reason the engine sounds strained as if its struggling to pull..I think Sally in 'Cars' was a tip..I think the Pixar guys spotted the rather strange engine note too!
Trailmonster,
You just haven't learned how to control it...
If you floor pedal to the carpet then yes it will kick down, if you fully press pedal, but not all the way until you feel the pedal 'click' then it will accelerate hard in gear without kick down...
Also, as Henry says, the box does learn your driving style, they are clever boxes but you have to work with them. Those with no patience will not get the best out of the tip IMO.
You just haven't learned how to control it...
If you floor pedal to the carpet then yes it will kick down, if you fully press pedal, but not all the way until you feel the pedal 'click' then it will accelerate hard in gear without kick down...
Also, as Henry says, the box does learn your driving style, they are clever boxes but you have to work with them. Those with no patience will not get the best out of the tip IMO.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The Merc SL is a stunning car, we've just sold one. But the driving experience is so far removed from a 911 Tip that there is no comparison. They are different cars. The Merc is a heavy luxurious grand tourer in the same family as a Bentley Continental. The Porsche is a sports car which still has the ability to cross continents with ease.When I first read your post I thought you were implying Tiptronic cars were going to cost more money to keep on the road. The answer of course is that they probably cost less over their lifetime. No clutches to replace, less metal on metal wear in the gearbox (the pinion bearing failure in 993 gearboxes always seems to get swept under the carpet when discussing their reliability). No chance of over revving the engine, well actually less chance - we have seen some car's where people have tried their hardest and somehow succeeded.
Tip boxes can have problems but I would say far less regularly than manual boxes which will all eventually suffer worn gears, bearings, syncros and so on. The other very general observation is that tips tend to live more gentle lives than manuals. As they get old we see relatively more good tips than we do manuals.
This is always a topic which attracts lively debate. I am playing devil's advocate in an attempt to balance up the debate from it's usual course.
Henry
Thanks for the responses.
It is an interesting debate and I can see both sides.
I have had a manual 996 and I loved it. Tracking it a bit and generally drove it like it was intended to be.
But times change and if i go on track I have a track car.
Having just been round europe in an M3 cab manual, I can see the advantages of a tip for these kind of trips. The car would be the wifes really, but even if I were to drive it much, it wouldnt be rally styleeeeee!!
The other thing is, there seems to be sooooo much choice out there with tips. Never really thought they would have sold so many.
It is an interesting debate and I can see both sides.
I have had a manual 996 and I loved it. Tracking it a bit and generally drove it like it was intended to be.
But times change and if i go on track I have a track car.
Having just been round europe in an M3 cab manual, I can see the advantages of a tip for these kind of trips. The car would be the wifes really, but even if I were to drive it much, it wouldnt be rally styleeeeee!!
The other thing is, there seems to be sooooo much choice out there with tips. Never really thought they would have sold so many.
Henry-F said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The Merc SL is a stunning car, we've just sold one. But the driving experience is so far removed from a 911 Tip that there is no comparison. They are different cars. The Merc is a heavy luxurious grand tourer in the same family as a Bentley Continental. The Porsche is a sports car which still has the ability to cross continents with ease.When I first read your post I thought you were implying Tiptronic cars were going to cost more money to keep on the road. The answer of course is that they probably cost less over their lifetime. No clutches to replace, less metal on metal wear in the gearbox (the pinion bearing failure in 993 gearboxes always seems to get swept under the carpet when discussing their reliability). No chance of over revving the engine, well actually less chance - we have seen some cars where people have tried their hardest and somehow succeeded.
Tip boxes can have problems but I would say far less regularly than manual boxes which will all eventually suffer worn gears, bearings, syncros and so on. The other very general observation is that tips tend to live more gentle lives than manuals. As they get old we see relatively more good tips than we do manuals.
This is always a topic which attracts lively debate. I am playing devil's advocate in an attempt to balance up the debate from it's usual course.
Henry
Usual problem with those that comment on here either haven't driven the tt version and even if they have naturally driven in the auto mode. If you drive one of these tips and you come from a Manual like me, dont drive it in auto. put it in Manual mode every time. It will never kick down on you no matter what. Switch off the PSM and it wont even change gear when you hit the rev limiter. The only time it does change down for you with PSM off or on is when you approach iddle speed of the engine. Real world it changes at about 1200 rpm but , what are you doing labouring the engine at 1200 rpm anyway. In a manual you would choose the correct gear for the conditions and engine speed, no diffrence with a tip in Manual mode.
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Tuesday 11th October 08:45
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