M3 track toy?

[Uncle Gueber]

Looking for thoughts on a M3 as a track car, either E36 or 46.

Quite fancy having a track car for next year, needs to have a roof and be rear drive with a reasonable amount to power. Car would only be used for trackdays, probably 6 days max. so looking to keep the outlay to a min.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3229450.htm

or

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3188889.htm


Have no real knowledge of either, so which is the better proposition?
Looking to learn general weak points on each, what needs upgrading for track use, rough costs would be helpful, weight savings for ripping the interiors out etc, etc.

[braddo]

You need to look the correct classifieds section - classifieds > motorsport > road legal track cars.

You'll find track prepared M3s in there.

[iguana]

Uggh smg e36 nasty nasty.

Ive done the e36 track route many times, know most of what works & doesnt. Depending on what You are after i may well have the car for yoú, i need to slim the fleet to a sensible level.

[Cavey]

Sensible? Surely not sir...

[tim2100]

I wouldn't bother with an M3, Higher purchase prices & higher parts prices.

Stick with a E36 328. 90% of the go of the M3, and 50% of the costs (IMO)

[NNNick]

These chaps know a bit about M3's. They run the CSL cup but they've got quite a bit of info about the cars.

e36
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/racing/E36_M3_p...

e46
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/bmw/m3/e...


E36 is quite rigid and quite light. As mentioned obviously cheaper entry pice, lots of cheap parts about.

As also mentioned, getting a decent e36 M3 is probably going to cost you quite a bit you might be better off with a 328i and getting some modifications to give it a bit more power.

Also look at the e46 330Ci.

[custardkid]

This may inspire you... or put you off.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

truth is you'll get as much fun out of a 328, but as most people upgrade to M3 parts, (diffs, wishbones, etc etc) you may as well just get an M3

as far as I can see the e36 and e46 are similar when it comes to mechanicals, but the e46 will be newer (less rust), heavier, and have more electrical bits to bin / fix


custard

PS purple is the best M3 colour

[E36GUY]

tim2100 said:

90% of the go of the M3

Sorry. No chance. The M3EVO has over 50% (195 vs 320) more power than the 328 and that difference is very tangible on track with the two poles apart.

OP - go for the M3 but certainly not an SMG and I would stick with an e36 as the parts will be much cheaper long run than the e46. I'd be tempted to buy something ready built though as that would be a cheaper option than coverting a road car.

[Uncle Gueber]

Thanks for all the replies but suspect this is not going to be as simple as I’d hoped.

Thorney link was helpful.

Was only looking to do about 6 t-days next year then probably sell the car on, hence the thought of a road car appealing to a bigger market.
Don’t mind spending cash on routine servicing and consumables such as dics & pads, tyres, etc. But looks like I’d have to spend a few grand upgrading various other parts and with my lack of self control, probably way more than I would really need to.

E46 Prefer the looks of this car but trawling some forums, brakes made of chocolate, suspension made of cheese and some issue with the subframe cracking.

E36 Costs less to buy and for spares but older and likely to need more of a refresh, also much the same issues with brakes, suspension/ rear mounts, etc.

I get as much enjoyment out of working on a car as I do from driving them, so my big fear is I end up doing something like this http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...

[iguana]

I remember that Dakar evo, I had a cracking Dakar tracker, sold now & its racing, was epic tho. New car will be even better tho.

[iguana]

Cavey said:

Sensible? Surely not sir...

Well no of course not entirely sensible in real terms, but some controlled culling must be undertaken for the good of the herd

[RLK500]

One thing I would consider (if you are thinking E36/E46) is get a car with brakes/suspension already done and try and pick a car that hasn't had all the carpet sound deadening removed. Trust me, if you are going to be driving to your trackday, 4 hours plus in a stripped car is an unpleasant experience. Sure it will weigh more with all carpets in situ, but we are not looking for the last 10th in time, that little extra comfort will make the day all the more enjoyable. Being shattered before you start the day, is not a great feeling. Just my experience..........

HTH

[Mroad]

RLK500 said:

One thing I would consider (if you are thinking E36/E46) is get a car with brakes/suspension already done and try and pick a car that hasn't had all the carpet sound deadening removed. Trust me, if you are going to be driving to your trackday, 4 hours plus in a stripped car is an unpleasant experience. Sure it will weigh more with all carpets in situ, but we are not looking for the last 10th in time, that little extra comfort will make the day all the more enjoyable. Being shattered before you start the day, is not a great feeling. Just my experience..........

HTH

+1
One of the reasons I'm looking at a tow car and trailer now for my E36 M3 (and maybe racing it next year).

As also mentioned get one that is already had the money and hard work spent on it to get it track ready. It will save you a lot of money and the resale value should be nearly the same if looked after.
I bought my E36 Evo a few years ago now for about £7k and it had about the same amount again spent on it by the previous owner to get it track ready (top grade stuff put on).
It doesn't stop you tweaking stuff if you like spannering, I've spent a few more £k on it since.

[Cavey]

iguana said:

Well no of course not entirely sensible in real terms, but some controlled culling must be undertaken for the good of the herd

...which roughly translates as 'found something else to buy'?

[braddo]

RLK500 said:

One thing I would consider (if you are thinking E36/E46) is get a car with brakes/suspension already done and try and pick a car that hasn't had all the carpet sound deadening removed. Trust me, if you are going to be driving to your trackday, 4 hours plus in a stripped car is an unpleasant experience. Sure it will weigh more with all carpets in situ, but we are not looking for the last 10th in time, that little extra comfort will make the day all the more enjoyable. Being shattered before you start the day, is not a great feeling. Just my experience..........

HTH

Bunging in some foam earplugs for the motorway journeys can make a big difference in noisy cars.

[NNNick]

Uncle Gueber said:

Thanks for all the replies but suspect this is not going to be as simple as I’d hoped.

Thorney link was helpful.

Was only looking to do about 6 t-days next year then probably sell the car on, hence the thought of a road car appealing to a bigger market.
Don’t mind spending cash on routine servicing and consumables such as dics & pads, tyres, etc. But looks like I’d have to spend a few grand upgrading various other parts and with my lack of self control, probably way more than I would really need to.

E46 Prefer the looks of this car but trawling some forums, brakes made of chocolate, suspension made of cheese and some issue with the subframe cracking.

E36 Costs less to buy and for spares but older and likely to need more of a refresh, also much the same issues with brakes, suspension/ rear mounts, etc.

I get as much enjoyment out of working on a car as I do from driving them, so my big fear is I end up doing something like this http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...

My preference with a track car (apart from safety / roll cage) would always be to upgrade the brakes and chassis.

I have had this conversation and done a fair amount of research towards e46 track car. I would probably drive the brakes until the melt then replace or just upgrade straight away. Expensive but a wise invesment.

I'd much rather leave the engine of any car alone and improve the handling and breaking. On a track I think you'll get more benefit from this than horses.

Thorney are great for a high end racing car but they are pretty pricey, I'm sure you can find other people / suppliers to get the suspension and breaks.

Although I'd be inclined to get them to do the alignment, because they do know what they're doing.

I should ask them for a commission, I've linked them many times.

[Uncle Gueber]

I’ve previously had cars with minimal or zero sound deadening, so already have a stash of ear plugs and a trailer (which I might be prepared to sell as I’d like a racebox next).

Not sure what direction to go next year but was thinking of the M3 as a stop-gap and something for the wife to track.

Unlikely to buy anything before Jan so plenty of time to trawl forums, read up, etc.
Cheers for the responses.