All season tyres- change size?

[rodgerramjet]

As the title suggests, if changing from 'summer' tyres to all season tyres, should the size be altered to suit? It seems commonplace to go for a narrower tyre with a higher profile sidewall when using winter tyres, and I know some people like to use a wider, low profile tyre on larger diameter rims during the summer. But I can't really find much info on all season tyres.

The standard size for the car - '98 Volvo V40 1.8 Shed - is 195/55/15. This is quite an odd size and results in some crazy pricing as such. If I was going for all out winter tyres then 185/60/15 is recommended. This has a negligible difference in rolling circurmefernce so the speedo shouldn't be too far out.

The car is my £400 'winter beater' as some call it, and is used by myself from November-ish through to March/April, then less often through the summer while shared between myself for weekends at festivals, camping etc and by my old man for dog/ikea/tip-run duties. It's life is normally inside lane of m'way @ 60-70mph, or pottering about town at a snail's pace, so extreme tyre performance is not really a consideration. It coped 'admirably' on the summer Nankangs it came with last winter, if that gives you an idea of how it is normally driven!

For info, I'm looking at

195/55/15: Khumo KH21: £65, Vredstein Quatrac 3: £83
185/60/15: Khumo KH21: £55, Vredstein Quatrac 3: £67

Nearly £30 between the cheapest Khumo and the dearest Vred means quite a lot on a car worth next-to-F-all.

Also, speed ratings seem to drop from V (<149mph), to H (<129mph), but I'm not going anywhere near this, ever (I imagine it'd run out of puff above 90mph!), so this is not a concern. Load ratings don't seem to differ too much.

So, what do the PH rubber experts recommend?

[kambites]

I think I'd fit full-on winters rather than all-seasons and leave them on all year 'round for that usage.

[davepoth]

Your insurance company would quite happily invalidate any claim when they found differently sized tyres that were not correctly speed rated for your vehicle. Is it really worth £40?

[Jimbo.]

davepoth said:

Your insurance company would quite happily invalidate any claim when they found differently sized tyres that were not correctly speed rated for your vehicle. Is it really worth £40?

Not so sure on the speed rating front. Spoke to my insurers re. winter tyres, going from V-rated to H-rated, and they weren't bothered.

EDIT: And if you were to have an incident wherein speed and speed rating were an issue, I suspect you and you insurance company will have bigger things to worry about.
"What speed are those H-rated tyres rated at?"
"130mph"
"And how fast were you going at the time of the incident, sir?"
"135"
"..."

Edited by Jimbo. on Sunday 16th October 10:41

[rodgerramjet]

kambites said:

I think I'd fit full-on winters rather than all-seasons and leave them on all year 'round for that usage.

I considered this, but although the car does less journeys from spring-autumn, it does tend to do longer ones ie 500-600 mile round trips once a month plus the odd shorter run in between. I'd say the car does 50% of it's miles during November-February. And as the Scottish summer tends to be, well, sopping wet yet mostly mild of temperature I thought all seasons would be a better bet. It's also more likely to get >7deg C temps during winter, than <7deg C temps rest of the year.

davepoth said:

Your insurance company would quite happily invalidate any claim when they found differently sized tyres that were not correctly speed rated for your vehicle. Is it really worth £40?

I think you may have been misinformed. If you have, say, 285 section ZR rated summer tyres, you'll have a job on your hands to find an equivalent winter tyre to keep your insurer happy (they'd also be pretty shoite at that width). This subject has been discussed at length in other winter tyre threads.

[Magic919]

davepoth said:

Your insurance company would quite happily invalidate any claim when they found differently sized tyres that were not correctly speed rated for your vehicle. Is it really worth £40?

Does this ever actually happen though? I think you've more chance of getting a swan to break a man's arm with its wing.

[rodgerramjet]

No one got any experience of all season tyres?

[Magic919]

Each year there are dozens and dozens of threads on winter tyres. Don't expect a great response to yet another one.

I'd fit whatever Volvo suggest. They have some experience of snow.

[rswift]

Bump for this, as I am looking at fitting all season tyres on my Wife's Citroen C5 Hack .... I know they won't be as good as full on winter tyres, but they will be better tha Summer ones, and I realise they may not be as good in a hot summer (!) ... but in a diesel C5 they could be a happy and affordable compromise. I also note that if they are marked M&S they are accepted as being legal in Germany etc where the use of a winter tyre is compulsory in winter conditions. I see this as a massive bonus.

[Tunku]

May I suggest Kleber Quadraxers? I'm going to fit these to my Volvo V70 as they seem to get a good write-up

[kambites]

I drove a car on full winters down through France, Italy and Greece to Bulgaria this summer, in temperatures averaging something like 40 degrees centigrade and they were fine. They wear a fraction faster and generate a bit more road noise than good summer tyres, but they work fine.

Every review I've read, has suggested that all seasons tyres are closer to summer ones than winter ones in the way they behave. I wouldn't be surprised if you got stuck on them if it snows.

[davepoth]

Magic919 said:

Does this ever actually happen though? I think you've more chance of getting a swan to break a man's arm with its wing.

It's a departure from the manufacturer's specification, which if not declared could cause a big issue.

[kambites]

davepoth said:

Your insurance company would quite happily invalidate any claim when they found differently sized tyres that were not correctly speed rated for your vehicle. Is it really worth £40?

I believe there is a specific exemption from the speed rating rule for winter tyres. I don't know whether it applies to all seasons ones too?

[rodgerramjet]

kambites said:

I drove a car on full winters down through France, Italy and Greece to Bulgaria this summer, in temperatures averaging something like 40 degrees centigrade and they were fine. They wear a fraction faster and generate a bit more road noise than good summer tyres, but they work fine.

Every review I've read, has suggested that all seasons tyres are closer to summer ones than winter ones in the way they behave. I wouldn't be surprised if you got stuck on them if it snows.

Thanks for the more detailed reply I've also been checking out the reviews (mainly German) and you're right, they do seem to be 'better' than summer tyres, but not as useful in the winter conditions as one might expect. I knew they would be somewhere in the middle, but they seem to be some distance off winters.

Storage of a second set wheels for summer/winter switch over is an issue as I live in a top floor flat with no garage space down below, but winters on all year round may be more effective for when the car is a necessity than the all seasons.

[kambites]

I really wouldn't worry about running winters up to something like 15 degrees C. Above that, they will feel like very poor summer tyres - not nice but perfectly adequate on a car that's presumably not going to be driven hard anyway.

I'd check exactly what the law says on running tyres with a lower speed rating than the car's top speed. I know there is some kind of exemption for winter tyres, but I don't know how it's worded or, crucially, whether it applies in the summer.


On the size front - most car manufacturers recommend narrower tyres in the winter anyway. Check in the hand-book.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 16th October 18:31

[rodgerramjet]

kambites said:

I really wouldn't worry about running winters up to something like 15 degrees C. Above that, they will feel like very poor summer tyres - not nice but perfectly adequate on a car that's presumably not going to be driven hard anyway.

Well the average temp up here doesn't get above 15deg C until mid-summer, and even then the rain should keep road temps down so that shouldn't be an issue! Joking asside, Olaf is more of a necessity in the winter than my MR2 is in the summer and as you say, the way the car is driven is more 'Miss Daisy' than 'Misdemeanour', so a bit of wobble when in warmer climes won't bother myself or my old man.

I was hoping there would be more experience on here of all seasons, but it appears that most have went down the two sets of wheels and tyres, one for each purpose.