What Car, £7k - £11k. Too much choice?
Discussion
OK, a little bit of background first. I'm currently breaking my MR2 turbo and was going to buy another as a blank canvas to build a TRD 2000GT from. This is still the direction I'm looking in, but last night I sat down and worked everything out.
Looks like I actually have at least £7000 worth of parts amassed. There were bits I was planning on keeping for the next car, but then I just thought "What if I sold absolutely everything?". In all honesty it was prompted by SWMBO complaining about me buying old cars and asking why I couldn't use that money to buy something modern and better on fuel.
So I started looking around. I realised that for anything upto £11k, I could have a 3.0 Z4, or even an S2 Elise or a VX220 Turbo. Of course there are other cars, like a 996 911 and an E46 M3 and E90 335i's are almost in range but these cars are heavier on fuel and nowhere near as unique and arguably as fun to drive as the MR2 would be.
I'm a little bit confused really. I've never had a budget like this before and want to make the right decision.
Whichever car I get, it will be taken across Europe next summer.
Looks like I actually have at least £7000 worth of parts amassed. There were bits I was planning on keeping for the next car, but then I just thought "What if I sold absolutely everything?". In all honesty it was prompted by SWMBO complaining about me buying old cars and asking why I couldn't use that money to buy something modern and better on fuel.
So I started looking around. I realised that for anything upto £11k, I could have a 3.0 Z4, or even an S2 Elise or a VX220 Turbo. Of course there are other cars, like a 996 911 and an E46 M3 and E90 335i's are almost in range but these cars are heavier on fuel and nowhere near as unique and arguably as fun to drive as the MR2 would be.
I'm a little bit confused really. I've never had a budget like this before and want to make the right decision.
Whichever car I get, it will be taken across Europe next summer.
kambites said:
Go and drive everything that interests you and see which you like. Many (most) people would consider an Elise or VX220 as being unsuitable for long-distance touring. It'd certainly be tiring.
Well I thought about that, but then I thought can it really be any worse than an MR2 on coilovers? Bad Sir Culation said:
kambites said:
Go and drive everything that interests you and see which you like. Many (most) people would consider an Elise or VX220 as being unsuitable for long-distance touring. It'd certainly be tiring.
Well I thought about that, but then I thought can it really be any worse than an MR2 on coilovers? It's also very noisy, although that can be solved with ear plugs.
Bad Sir Culation said:
Besides the engine, are there any clear differences between the VX and the Elise?
Yes - different spring and damper rates, sized wheels and tyres, NVH materials, rear subframe, body panels (the VX's are a fair bit heavier), braking systems, and probably a few other things. I think the S2000 is a good compromise between performance and running costs and well within budget if you don't want something quite as raw as the elise/ VX200.
Trouble with looking at things like M3's and porsches at this price is that they still have high running costs, All consumables are expensive for instance a set of tyres is going to set you back around £1k discs and pads are expensive as is servicing by comparison to the honda.
Trouble with looking at things like M3's and porsches at this price is that they still have high running costs, All consumables are expensive for instance a set of tyres is going to set you back around £1k discs and pads are expensive as is servicing by comparison to the honda.
Looking at the classified just demonstates the huge number of very nice cars within your budget. You'll have to narrow it down a bit even before you start test driving a few or else your brain will just overload and you'll end up still looking in 6 months.
Some of my suggestions would be..
S2000
Alfa Spider
Ford RS
350Z
Boxster S
Clio V6
Some of my suggestions would be..
S2000
Alfa Spider
Ford RS
350Z
Boxster S
Clio V6
What are you going to use it for predominantly?
If you do motorway miles every day, then an Elise may become a pain, but if you have a B-road commute then it will put a smile on your face without fail and should still be bearable for occasional longer distance trips.
If it wasn't for fuel I'd say a TVR.
Depending on how frugal you're looking a Porsche 968 (or a mint 944 S2) may be an option?
But yeah, if you like the mid-engined thing and the Elise sprang to mind then have a think about how you're really going to use it. Even a very modest performance car can feel wasted on a short urban commute, the more extreme examples will get tiring on the motorway - it sounds a bit girlie but the novelty value quickly evaporates, trust me, and many will be impractical for load lugging. But if you spend most of your time hooning around on good roads then I'd say it's worth putting up with the car's idiosyncrasies on occasional longer journeys.
If you do motorway miles every day, then an Elise may become a pain, but if you have a B-road commute then it will put a smile on your face without fail and should still be bearable for occasional longer distance trips.
If it wasn't for fuel I'd say a TVR.
Depending on how frugal you're looking a Porsche 968 (or a mint 944 S2) may be an option?
But yeah, if you like the mid-engined thing and the Elise sprang to mind then have a think about how you're really going to use it. Even a very modest performance car can feel wasted on a short urban commute, the more extreme examples will get tiring on the motorway - it sounds a bit girlie but the novelty value quickly evaporates, trust me, and many will be impractical for load lugging. But if you spend most of your time hooning around on good roads then I'd say it's worth putting up with the car's idiosyncrasies on occasional longer journeys.
kambites said:
Bad Sir Culation said:
Besides the engine, are there any clear differences between the VX and the Elise?
Yes - different spring and damper rates, sized wheels and tyres, NVH materials, rear subframe, body panels (the VX's are a fair bit heavier), braking systems, and probably a few other things. The only downside would be the turbo kicking in when driving in the wet, things can get a little hairy!!
Cheers folks. TVR's definitely appeal but I would like lower running costs if possible. I think I have to be realistic and say that a 996 would be just too much for me, financially, at the present time.
There's just so much choice out there at this price point. It's insane. I could drive myself seriously mad over this!
With regards fuel costs, I really shouldn't be worried as my commute is a 6 mile journey each way. It's only because of the Mrs that I'm considering letting it be a factor. The overriding thing being that any long journeys we do, we always use my car, so it would be nice to lessen the pain of these trips!
It's not the most important factor though. The main thing is driving pleasure. I do lean towards the VX220 but I much prefer the looks of the S2 Elise. I do really enjoy a nice turbo engine though, but as I have shown with the cars I've been looking at, it's not the be all and end all. I just feel that the VX is a fine compromise between comfort and handling/feedback. It's heavier than the Elise, but still lighter than most things out there.
My daily commute is generally 3 miles of local roads and A roads, with 3 miles of motorway.
A 968 is a good idea, but it's a fair bit older than what I'm looking at. I want a max of ten years old ideally, but the lesser the better.
There's just so much choice out there at this price point. It's insane. I could drive myself seriously mad over this!
With regards fuel costs, I really shouldn't be worried as my commute is a 6 mile journey each way. It's only because of the Mrs that I'm considering letting it be a factor. The overriding thing being that any long journeys we do, we always use my car, so it would be nice to lessen the pain of these trips!
It's not the most important factor though. The main thing is driving pleasure. I do lean towards the VX220 but I much prefer the looks of the S2 Elise. I do really enjoy a nice turbo engine though, but as I have shown with the cars I've been looking at, it's not the be all and end all. I just feel that the VX is a fine compromise between comfort and handling/feedback. It's heavier than the Elise, but still lighter than most things out there.
My daily commute is generally 3 miles of local roads and A roads, with 3 miles of motorway.
A 968 is a good idea, but it's a fair bit older than what I'm looking at. I want a max of ten years old ideally, but the lesser the better.
Bad Sir Culation said:
OK, a little bit of background first. I'm currently breaking my MR2 turbo and was going to buy another as a blank canvas to build a TRD 2000GT from. This is still the direction I'm looking in, but last night I sat down and worked everything out.
Looks like I actually have at least £7000 worth of parts amassed. There were bits I was planning on keeping for the next car, but then I just thought "What if I sold absolutely everything?". In all honesty it was prompted by SWMBO complaining about me buying old cars and asking why I couldn't use that money to buy something modern and better on fuel.
So I started looking around. I realised that for anything upto £11k, I could have a 3.0 Z4, or even an S2 Elise or a VX220 Turbo. Of course there are other cars, like a 996 911 and an E46 M3 and E90 335i's are almost in range but these cars are heavier on fuel and nowhere near as unique and arguably as fun to drive as the MR2 would be.
I'm a little bit confused really. I've never had a budget like this before and want to make the right decision.
Whichever car I get, it will be taken across Europe next summer.
Depends what you consider good economy. Something that does 40mpg + or just better than what you have, which I 'm guessing would be nearer 30mpgLooks like I actually have at least £7000 worth of parts amassed. There were bits I was planning on keeping for the next car, but then I just thought "What if I sold absolutely everything?". In all honesty it was prompted by SWMBO complaining about me buying old cars and asking why I couldn't use that money to buy something modern and better on fuel.
So I started looking around. I realised that for anything upto £11k, I could have a 3.0 Z4, or even an S2 Elise or a VX220 Turbo. Of course there are other cars, like a 996 911 and an E46 M3 and E90 335i's are almost in range but these cars are heavier on fuel and nowhere near as unique and arguably as fun to drive as the MR2 would be.
I'm a little bit confused really. I've never had a budget like this before and want to make the right decision.
Whichever car I get, it will be taken across Europe next summer.
Fast diesel maybe worth a look.
Honda S2000 woul also get my vote too. Rock solid engines and cheap servicing costs. Fuel won't be great. I'd expect 25-28mpg average if I'm honest.
If you like the way turbos behave, the VX220 is well worth a drive. It may fall short of the Elise in handling terms, but not by a huge margin and it can be got very close with a new set of wheels and some new damper units and springs. The power delivery was one of a number of things that steered me towards an Elise instead - the torquey, slightly laggy nature of the turbocharged lump didn't seem to suit the focus of the car at all. I also didn't like the (servo assisted) brakes as much as the Elise's (non-assisted) ones.
If the Elise hadn't existed, I'd probably have bought a normally aspirated VX220 over a turbocharged one and then maybe supercharged it.
If the Elise hadn't existed, I'd probably have bought a normally aspirated VX220 over a turbocharged one and then maybe supercharged it.
Bad Sir Culation said:
My daily commute is generally 3 miles of local roads and A roads, with 3 miles of motorway.
Serious question, but is MPG really that much of an issue if most of your typical journey is six miles on clear roads? You may find that servicing, tax and insurance start to become more significant. There a slightly older car might work out better than you expect - specialist insurance can be had from about £200 a year depending on the circumstances and something a bit lower tech can often be serviced at home (or at least a decent local garage rather than a main dealer...) so you may find that something from the '90s is actually cheaper to run than a more recent car.
I still think a nice frugal Elise sounds like a good option (despite my personal preference for TVRs!). It's not as if you spend time sat in city centre traffic jams or cover 100 miles on the M1 every day, by the sound of it. It just means that an earlier S1 Elise or something might be an option and I wouldn't discount 968s and the like on the grounds of age, either. I'd suggest a really good example of something like one of those would be better than scraping into the bottom end of the range of a more expensive model.
That said, for a slightly higher running budget I'd be very tempted by a Boxster S or a Z3M breadvan.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 17th October 13:14
I had exactly the same dilema this year and Elise VX220 and Z4 were on the list as only car options and likewise I wanted to do Classic LeMans next year and a European Grand Prix every year so it needed to be capable of that, this rules out the Elise / VX220 as they have no storage Z4 was then the main contender I ended up with an MX5 with an every day car to run as well. MX5 meets the european trip is cheap to run and can be modified as much as you want which suits me.
BoRED S2upid said:
I had exactly the same dilema this year and Elise VX220 and Z4 were on the list as only car options and likewise I wanted to do Classic LeMans next year and a European Grand Prix every year so it needed to be capable of that, this rules out the Elise / VX220 as they have no storage Z4 was then the main contender I ended up with an MX5 with an every day car to run as well. MX5 meets the european trip is cheap to run and can be modified as much as you want which suits me.
Does the VX or Elise not have room for a couple of large bags?I have noticed the 111S Elise is in this price bracket now. That looks good. I have to admit though, I'm not sure how much I'd miss little things like electric windows etc. :S
Bad Sir Culation said:
Does the VX or Elise not have room for a couple of large bags?
I have noticed the 111S Elise is in this price bracket now. That looks good. I have to admit though, I'm not sure how much I'd miss little things like electric windows etc. :S
The Elise's boot is fairly small and looks even smaller than it is because the access is so poor. I suppose I can get about four or five full supermarket bags into it. Obviously you can use the passenger seat if you don't have a passenger. I have noticed the 111S Elise is in this price bracket now. That looks good. I have to admit though, I'm not sure how much I'd miss little things like electric windows etc. :S
The Elise is available with electric windows, air conditioning, etc. if you want them. I thought all S2 111Ss had electric windows, but I might be wrong.
Chris71 said:
Serious question, but is MPG really that much of an issue if most of your typical journey is six miles on clear roads?
You may find that servicing, tax and insurance start to become more significant. There a slightly older car might work out better than you expect - specialist insurance can be had from about £200 a year depending on the circumstances and something a bit lower tech can often be serviced at home (or at least a decent local garage rather than a main dealer...) so you may find that something from the '90s is actually cheaper to run than a more recent car.
I still think a nice frugal Elise sounds like a good option (despite my personal preference for TVRs!). It's not as if you spend time sat in city centre traffic jams or cover 100 miles on the M1 every day, by the sound of it. It just means that an earlier S1 Elise or something might be an option and I wouldn't discount 968s and the like on the grounds of age, either. I'd suggest a really good example of something like one of those would be better than scraping into the bottom end of the range of a more expensive model.
That said, for a slightly higher running budget I'd be very tempted by a Boxster S or a Z3M breadvan.
Breadvan appeals. Are they in budget? Are they better than the roadster that everybody gives poor reviews?You may find that servicing, tax and insurance start to become more significant. There a slightly older car might work out better than you expect - specialist insurance can be had from about £200 a year depending on the circumstances and something a bit lower tech can often be serviced at home (or at least a decent local garage rather than a main dealer...) so you may find that something from the '90s is actually cheaper to run than a more recent car.
I still think a nice frugal Elise sounds like a good option (despite my personal preference for TVRs!). It's not as if you spend time sat in city centre traffic jams or cover 100 miles on the M1 every day, by the sound of it. It just means that an earlier S1 Elise or something might be an option and I wouldn't discount 968s and the like on the grounds of age, either. I'd suggest a really good example of something like one of those would be better than scraping into the bottom end of the range of a more expensive model.
That said, for a slightly higher running budget I'd be very tempted by a Boxster S or a Z3M breadvan.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 17th October 13:14
I like the 968 in all fairness but then if I ignored the age thing I'd start looking at 928's, Escort Cossies, Skyline GTR's, all sorts.....
Chris71, you've destroyed me. I must sell everything immediately and buy THIS http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1645986.htm
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