Driving to the Alps... Is It madness?
Discussion
Basically the opportunity to join a skiing holiday this Christmas has come up, I havn't been for years but I do love Skiing and it is a very nice offer in a nice place that is looking very hard to say no to.
I am looking at how to get there, and have no idea as I'd be travelling on my own a day or so later. A quick google maps puts it at at 925 miles door to door for me with 16 hours driving, about 150 miles east of Lyon.
Firstly would winter tyres/4x4 be essential to go up snowy alps roads in December? I've only ever done it on a coach.
Has anyone else done this in the past?
Am I mad to consider driving?
What would PH recommend. If I drive I'd most likely be doing it in a my MINI cooper, hardly the last word in economy or winter tractability, but is a Suprisingly refined cruiser on the motorway.
I reckon it would cost me £350 in fuel there and back in the MINI. based on my current 31mpg average, though that is mostly urban driving. hmmmmm advice?
I am looking at how to get there, and have no idea as I'd be travelling on my own a day or so later. A quick google maps puts it at at 925 miles door to door for me with 16 hours driving, about 150 miles east of Lyon.
Firstly would winter tyres/4x4 be essential to go up snowy alps roads in December? I've only ever done it on a coach.
Has anyone else done this in the past?
Am I mad to consider driving?
What would PH recommend. If I drive I'd most likely be doing it in a my MINI cooper, hardly the last word in economy or winter tractability, but is a Suprisingly refined cruiser on the motorway.
I reckon it would cost me £350 in fuel there and back in the MINI. based on my current 31mpg average, though that is mostly urban driving. hmmmmm advice?
Edited by jackh707 on Monday 17th October 11:33
Winter tyres (not studded snow tyres, but winter tyres) and chains are a legal requirement I think. 4x4 not needed (as evidenced by the locals).
It's long day's drive. Other options are obviously flying+transfer or train+transfer depending where you're going.
The MINI with some winter tyres on should be up to the job no problem, and you'll get better economy on the autoroutes (does it have cruise control?).
It's long day's drive. Other options are obviously flying+transfer or train+transfer depending where you're going.
The MINI with some winter tyres on should be up to the job no problem, and you'll get better economy on the autoroutes (does it have cruise control?).
Edited by ewenm on Monday 17th October 11:39
Snow train if going by yourself, as you can go overnight & save a days or two, though I've driven out by myself many times.
Chains are mandatory regardless of winter tyres & unless its snowing on the way there (rare) regular tyres are fine until the last few miles. Usually the roads are well cleared unless its dumping it down, in which case chains are required anyway.
Tolls are about £80 each way so add that to the cost comparison.
Chains are mandatory regardless of winter tyres & unless its snowing on the way there (rare) regular tyres are fine until the last few miles. Usually the roads are well cleared unless its dumping it down, in which case chains are required anyway.
Tolls are about £80 each way so add that to the cost comparison.
A hard drive if you're on your own. I've done it 4-up, sharing the driving and it's not too bad at all. Plus you can get 2 extra days in resort if you time it right. On your own though, you'll be entirely too knackered to make use of it I expect.
The drive itself is dead easy if you travel overnight, very little traffic, autoroutes virtually all the way.
You need winter tires or chains as stated. We took chains and didn't need them until we got right into the resort (Tignes it was), no problem at all. That was in a Nissan Almera so you don't need anything special. Though a big BMW estate would have been nicer
The drive itself is dead easy if you travel overnight, very little traffic, autoroutes virtually all the way.
You need winter tires or chains as stated. We took chains and didn't need them until we got right into the resort (Tignes it was), no problem at all. That was in a Nissan Almera so you don't need anything special. Though a big BMW estate would have been nicer
I have done the drive a fair few times. What resort are you going to and where you starting from the UK?
Tunnel to 3valleys for example - on a decent run is 8 - 10 hours mostly boring autoroutes.
How long is the holiday and what date/day of the week will you be arriving/leaving as it makes a lot of difference to how busy the roads to resort will be Sat/Sun round Christmas week will be gridlock up the hills in lots of resorts.
What are your reasons to drive? - It is only really cost effective if you have people to share the cost with and want to take lots of kit. If its for the experience it could be better to fly and hire.
If you need a car in resort then I would prob suggest either convincing a mate to go with you on the road trip - will be a lot more fun and someone to share the driving with, do the drive in 2 days and stop somewhere on the way... or fly and hire.
If you don't need a car there are loads more options - let me know what resort and will let you know what some of them are.
If you want more specific info on routes just ask
Cheers
Andy
ETA. as well as tolls to add to the cost you need chains (think some places rent them? also practice putting them on when it is light, dry and not sub zero - trust me you will thank me for this if you ever have to do it!), triangle, spare bulb kit, light converters (or hopefully find the switch to flick if you have Xenons!) and hi vis jacket in the car accessable before you would have to leave the car. I.E. not in the boot. I think you need 2 but that could be Spain! As well as the insurance, driving licence and reg docs.
Tunnel to 3valleys for example - on a decent run is 8 - 10 hours mostly boring autoroutes.
How long is the holiday and what date/day of the week will you be arriving/leaving as it makes a lot of difference to how busy the roads to resort will be Sat/Sun round Christmas week will be gridlock up the hills in lots of resorts.
What are your reasons to drive? - It is only really cost effective if you have people to share the cost with and want to take lots of kit. If its for the experience it could be better to fly and hire.
If you need a car in resort then I would prob suggest either convincing a mate to go with you on the road trip - will be a lot more fun and someone to share the driving with, do the drive in 2 days and stop somewhere on the way... or fly and hire.
If you don't need a car there are loads more options - let me know what resort and will let you know what some of them are.
If you want more specific info on routes just ask
Cheers
Andy
ETA. as well as tolls to add to the cost you need chains (think some places rent them? also practice putting them on when it is light, dry and not sub zero - trust me you will thank me for this if you ever have to do it!), triangle, spare bulb kit, light converters (or hopefully find the switch to flick if you have Xenons!) and hi vis jacket in the car accessable before you would have to leave the car. I.E. not in the boot. I think you need 2 but that could be Spain! As well as the insurance, driving licence and reg docs.
Edited by andy ted on Monday 17th October 11:58
I've driven to the Alps before and yes, it's a long way to drive, so it depends on your tolerance for long car journeys, but lots of people do it. Also bear in mind the chances of being stuck in a traffic jam (avoid passing round the big cities at rush hour). Personally I'd stop over twice to do it, limiting my travel time to 6 hour stints, with the last day perhaps an early breakfast and one or two hours drive into the ski resort itself. That's just my preference though - I have done that sort of distance in one hit before, but found it quite boring and a challenge to keep my driving safe as a result.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 17th October 12:06
Raify said:
Winter tyres + chains are a legal requirement beyond the marked points.
Which resort is it too? It will be pretty boring on your own. Have you considered the snow train?
Winter tyres or chains IME. But they do check, and don't expect to find chains for wider tyres in the local shops as the locals tend to run about on skinny wheels.Which resort is it too? It will be pretty boring on your own. Have you considered the snow train?
Winter tyres are not a requirement (but a very good idea!), but snow chains are if the roads are bad. If that's the case, the gendarmes will be diverting traffic into a car park and you're not leaving unless your chains are on. Have some in the car, practice putting them on at least once before you go.
Usually though, most roads up to resorts are kept cleared and gritted (especially on the weekends) so not a problem. In 10 trips or so I've only seen the above scenario once when it was dumping heavily. I've done two trips down by car on summer tyres and not had to put chains on at all.
It's a good drive but add about 80 euros in tolls to your estimate if you're using the autoroutes. Quite a relaxing drive (set cruise for 85mph, very little traffc) but boring - I found once it started getting dark I struggled to stay awake, and that was with other people to talk to and share the drive with. We started from Kent and stopped over near Albertville (so a shorter drive than you by the sounds of it) but it was a very long day. The last bit up into resort can be slow going, especially if you get stuck behind a transfer coach.
As said, the snow train is a good option if you're heading to any of the resorts near Moutiers, Aime-la-Plagne or Bourg-St-Maurice. Just sit back and relax, no dealing with airports, and only a short taxi ride to resort - or many chalets will come and pick you up. If it was just me, it's the option I'd go for - I don't think it would be any pricier than driving to be honest.
Usually though, most roads up to resorts are kept cleared and gritted (especially on the weekends) so not a problem. In 10 trips or so I've only seen the above scenario once when it was dumping heavily. I've done two trips down by car on summer tyres and not had to put chains on at all.
It's a good drive but add about 80 euros in tolls to your estimate if you're using the autoroutes. Quite a relaxing drive (set cruise for 85mph, very little traffc) but boring - I found once it started getting dark I struggled to stay awake, and that was with other people to talk to and share the drive with. We started from Kent and stopped over near Albertville (so a shorter drive than you by the sounds of it) but it was a very long day. The last bit up into resort can be slow going, especially if you get stuck behind a transfer coach.
As said, the snow train is a good option if you're heading to any of the resorts near Moutiers, Aime-la-Plagne or Bourg-St-Maurice. Just sit back and relax, no dealing with airports, and only a short taxi ride to resort - or many chalets will come and pick you up. If it was just me, it's the option I'd go for - I don't think it would be any pricier than driving to be honest.
In Feb 1999 I drove my 1.8 golf from Reading to Sauze D'oulx in 12 hours door to door including ferry crossing. Left Reading at 12 arrived in SD at 1am to my mates waiting in a bar.
Golf had 3 of us ( 2 sharing driving) and all our gear including one snowboard bag. it was tight. and great fun!
we didnt have snow tyres and it was a bit hairy on the last few miles but we got there, and more importantly, home again.
Golf had 3 of us ( 2 sharing driving) and all our gear including one snowboard bag. it was tight. and great fun!
we didnt have snow tyres and it was a bit hairy on the last few miles but we got there, and more importantly, home again.
I live in Kent, hence handy for channel crossings, but in the past 15 years or so, with 2 and sometimes 3 ski trips a year, I guess I've flown to the Alps about 3 times and coached once. Otherwise, we ALWAYS drive. It's easy, it doesn't take a whole lot longer than flying by the time you drive to the aiport, wait after check in, wait for coach transfers the other end, etc, and it's 100% more convenient.
If you pick your travel time, Sangatte to the northern end of the Alps is about 7.5 hours driving and it's a very easy journey.
If you pick your travel time, Sangatte to the northern end of the Alps is about 7.5 hours driving and it's a very easy journey.
You didn't say which resort you were going to, but it would seem easier and probably cheaper to fly with easyjet from L'pool to either Geneva or Grenoble and catch a bus to the resort
http://www.altibus.com/index.aspx
Driving costs will be as follows (for a return trip):
Tolls - £110
Ferry - £100
Fuel - £200
Green card (if required) - £25
Chains - £60+
Parking in resort - maybe £10+ per day unless your accomodation or the resort has free parking.
So £500-odd even if free parking. It might make sense for 4 people travelling, but not for one.
http://www.altibus.com/index.aspx
Driving costs will be as follows (for a return trip):
Tolls - £110
Ferry - £100
Fuel - £200
Green card (if required) - £25
Chains - £60+
Parking in resort - maybe £10+ per day unless your accomodation or the resort has free parking.
So £500-odd even if free parking. It might make sense for 4 people travelling, but not for one.
Bill said:
Winter tyres or chains IME. But they do check, and don't expect to find chains for wider tyres in the local shops as the locals tend to run about on skinny wheels.
I think the rules are different throughout Europe - as far as I am aware winter tyres are a legal requirement in Swizerland during the winter months as well as chains - certainly on Swiss registered cars - good tip if you ever hire one from Geneva is to get one from the 'Swiss' side even if you are going to France. as they don't sting you further for chain hire and winter tyres on top of the hire price.I once got stopped in France and told to put on chains on a local registered 4x4 kangoo on winters - though it was a one off as never happened again to me in 6 years so assume it was just a Police Municipal who didn't know the rules or if they exist they are seldom enforced.
A bit OT but - I think that 4x4 kangoo would have driven me to the top of the piste if I had attempted it! when it had a bit of weight in the back I think it was pretty much unstoppable! Only beaten in 'go anywhereness' by the original panda 4x4
OP; take chains and practice fitting them beforehand in the dark!!
I drive every year and have always gone on summer tyres (usually in a bid saloon; 730, S500 or A8 Quattro) and have never had any problems on any or the main routes. 80% of the time I can get to the chalet door without needing the chains and the other couple of times there was a heavy fall that day and chains were needed for re assurance (although it can be a legal requirement - if you are going to a civilised country!).
As for journey times, 16 hours seems a long time (I don't know where you are coming from). We do London - Courchevel through the night in 10 - 11 hours (we did do it in 9 hours once though in the A8 Quattro - stag do and they had strippers serving us breakfast naked; them, not us!).
Make sure you have a Hi-Vis jacket INSIDE the passenger compartment of your car; the French cops love stopping the Brits!
As for those who suggest getting the train, pah! It's an adventure.........get it done!
I drive every year and have always gone on summer tyres (usually in a bid saloon; 730, S500 or A8 Quattro) and have never had any problems on any or the main routes. 80% of the time I can get to the chalet door without needing the chains and the other couple of times there was a heavy fall that day and chains were needed for re assurance (although it can be a legal requirement - if you are going to a civilised country!).
As for journey times, 16 hours seems a long time (I don't know where you are coming from). We do London - Courchevel through the night in 10 - 11 hours (we did do it in 9 hours once though in the A8 Quattro - stag do and they had strippers serving us breakfast naked; them, not us!).
Make sure you have a Hi-Vis jacket INSIDE the passenger compartment of your car; the French cops love stopping the Brits!
As for those who suggest getting the train, pah! It's an adventure.........get it done!
andy ted said:
ETA. as well as tolls to add to the cost you need chains (think some places rent them? also practice putting them on when it is light, dry and not sub zero - trust me you will thank me for this if you ever have to do it!), triangle, spare bulb kit, light converters (or hopefully find the switch to flick if you have Xenons!) and hi vis jacket in the car accessable before you would have to leave the car. I.E. not in the boot. I think you need 2 but that could be Spain! As well as the insurance, driving licence and reg docs.
+1 on snow chain practice. Learning how to do it at -4 in the dark, in a blizzard on a car with low suspension is not fun!Edited by andy ted on Monday 17th October 11:58
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