Discussion
Hi all,
I had a MRI scan on my back today due to an injury I sustained at work December last year.
Anyway I got a copy of the scan images on CD and have a follow up appointment booked with the consultant next month.
However I have been looking through the scans tonight and on all of them it shows white (guessing fluid) between all my verterbra except one. The one that has no white is in the exact area where I get problems with my back.
I still have all movement in my back however ever now and again it does play up getting very stiff and soar.
Just wondered if indeed the vertebra is missing fluid that should be there what type of treatment there is.
Yes I know I should just speak to my consultant but he is in New Zealand until the end of the month watching the rugby. Alright for some but then when he charges BUPA £250 per consultation what can you expect I guess.
I had a MRI scan on my back today due to an injury I sustained at work December last year.
Anyway I got a copy of the scan images on CD and have a follow up appointment booked with the consultant next month.
However I have been looking through the scans tonight and on all of them it shows white (guessing fluid) between all my verterbra except one. The one that has no white is in the exact area where I get problems with my back.
I still have all movement in my back however ever now and again it does play up getting very stiff and soar.
Just wondered if indeed the vertebra is missing fluid that should be there what type of treatment there is.
Yes I know I should just speak to my consultant but he is in New Zealand until the end of the month watching the rugby. Alright for some but then when he charges BUPA £250 per consultation what can you expect I guess.
From memory of my scan on my back.
White - normal disc. You may see a prolapse where the outer tough membrane of the disc has burst and the soft inner part of the disc has impinged the sciatic nerve (do you have pain down one leg for example). This bulge will still appear white. Your consultant may tell you that you have a L2-L3 prolapse (for example), i.e. between lumbar discs 2 and 3. Have a look at some digarams (and apologies if you know this already).
Black between discs means that the disc is effectively dehydrated and rigid (as explained in laymans terms by my neurosurgeon). This isn't as bad as it sounds and often doesnt cause any issues (I have a couple and they don't cause me any issues).
If you have a Prolapse then this should diminish over time, although pain from December is a long time. Usually surgery is considerd after 3 months but only if the pain is severe and other methods tried and failed (physio, drugs). Surgery is always the last option. From your description, it does not sound that severe as you can still function and don't p*ss or sh*t yourself (cauda equina - very serious). Hopefully its spinal misalignment (scoliosis is a possibility) and phisio / Osteopathy and exercise will help. Also, an examination of your working conditions maked a big differnce. I had my chair replaced and really helped after a visit from our Occupational Heath nurse (do have this in your work?)
White - normal disc. You may see a prolapse where the outer tough membrane of the disc has burst and the soft inner part of the disc has impinged the sciatic nerve (do you have pain down one leg for example). This bulge will still appear white. Your consultant may tell you that you have a L2-L3 prolapse (for example), i.e. between lumbar discs 2 and 3. Have a look at some digarams (and apologies if you know this already).
Black between discs means that the disc is effectively dehydrated and rigid (as explained in laymans terms by my neurosurgeon). This isn't as bad as it sounds and often doesnt cause any issues (I have a couple and they don't cause me any issues).
If you have a Prolapse then this should diminish over time, although pain from December is a long time. Usually surgery is considerd after 3 months but only if the pain is severe and other methods tried and failed (physio, drugs). Surgery is always the last option. From your description, it does not sound that severe as you can still function and don't p*ss or sh*t yourself (cauda equina - very serious). Hopefully its spinal misalignment (scoliosis is a possibility) and phisio / Osteopathy and exercise will help. Also, an examination of your working conditions maked a big differnce. I had my chair replaced and really helped after a visit from our Occupational Heath nurse (do have this in your work?)
Edited by douglasr on Saturday 22 October 15:38
Edited by douglasr on Sunday 23 October 12:24
There is absolutely no way you can get an accurate answer to your question without a trained musculoskeletal radiologist actually reviewing the pictures in from of him.
Are your scans T1, T2, Fat Suppressed, Spin Echo, STIR, echo planar response, gradient echo....?
the pictures are manipulated data, based on emission from spinning protons falling back into a magnetic field and detected in 3D.
It's simply impossible to comment without seeing the full picture and all of the data set.
Sorry to be glum, but I deal with MRI all week long, and I still go to the radiologists for a proper answer
Are your scans T1, T2, Fat Suppressed, Spin Echo, STIR, echo planar response, gradient echo....?
the pictures are manipulated data, based on emission from spinning protons falling back into a magnetic field and detected in 3D.
It's simply impossible to comment without seeing the full picture and all of the data set.
Sorry to be glum, but I deal with MRI all week long, and I still go to the radiologists for a proper answer
The_Doc said:
There is absolutely no way you can get an accurate answer to your question without a trained musculoskeletal radiologist actually reviewing the pictures in from of him.
Are your scans T1, T2, Fat Suppressed, Spin Echo, STIR, echo planar response, gradient echo....?
the pictures are manipulated data, based on emission from spinning protons falling back into a magnetic field and detected in 3D.
It's simply impossible to comment without seeing the full picture and all of the data set.
Sorry to be glum, but I deal with MRI all week long, and I still go to the radiologists for a proper answer
Good point. I've got a CD with the images only (I was told they normally don't give one to the patient, but since my insuranc paid for it I asked for one).Are your scans T1, T2, Fat Suppressed, Spin Echo, STIR, echo planar response, gradient echo....?
the pictures are manipulated data, based on emission from spinning protons falling back into a magnetic field and detected in 3D.
It's simply impossible to comment without seeing the full picture and all of the data set.
Sorry to be glum, but I deal with MRI all week long, and I still go to the radiologists for a proper answer
As you say the Neurosurgeon or other specialist will look at the radiologist report and speak to the patient in clinic. I've seen the report and its meaningless to me other than L4-L5 prolapse. The scans I have annualy for my brain tumour are much easier to understand.
My spinal scan says:
Localizer feet first
Haste localizer
t2_tse_rst_sag
t1_tse_sag
t2_tst_rst_tra
t1_tst_tra
I looked at them again and the prolapse is very difficult to see. My consultant had to point it out.
There are some images that show my lower abdomen. I need to lose some weight both externally and internally as you can see the fat quite clearly.
Well saw the consultant today for the follow up post MRI. Turns out I have a degenerative disc, apparently it is manageable with excersice due to my age. Bit of a shock though finding out im potentially going to have problems with my back for the rest of my life considering I'm only 24.
In response to the above, the back's just a very poor 'design'. I've had chronic back problems since I was 17, meaning I'm unable to stand for more than a few minutes. I'm going to a fireworks display on Saturday and I'm having to take a shooting stick to perch on! I'm 34 years old, normal BMI, walk 5 miles a day and train for about 30-60 minutes a day for triathlon. Regarding the degenerated disc, that's quite normal as one ages - I've got two or three black ones showing on my various MRIs from over the years.
What's even crazier about the back and how crap it is is that I slipped a disc helping a lady up off the street last June, and now I have a permanent tingling in my left leg. It's like when you hit your funny bone, just permanent. So as a fit and healthy 34 year old I'm on constant medication to be able to sleep and function during the day. Without the medication I would, quite literally, go crazy.
The back's really not a great thing...
What's even crazier about the back and how crap it is is that I slipped a disc helping a lady up off the street last June, and now I have a permanent tingling in my left leg. It's like when you hit your funny bone, just permanent. So as a fit and healthy 34 year old I'm on constant medication to be able to sleep and function during the day. Without the medication I would, quite literally, go crazy.
The back's really not a great thing...
LeftMuffin said:
Hi all,
However I have been looking through the scans tonight and on all of them it shows white (guessing fluid) between all my verterbra except one. The one that has no white is in the exact area where I get problems with my back.
Scans of my L5/S1 slipped (burst) disc showed the other discs were light grey but the duff one was black. One of the surgeons told me that stabilisation wasn't necessary - the 'dead' disc won't come unstuck, it just won't absorb shocks or flex as well as it did. However I have been looking through the scans tonight and on all of them it shows white (guessing fluid) between all my verterbra except one. The one that has no white is in the exact area where I get problems with my back.
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