Fiesta Coilpack problems.... Any suggestions?

[Prof Prolapse]

I've had a Ford Fiesta 1.3 Duratec 2003 dropped off at my house.

The AA bloke and my own OBD II reader said it was the coilpack. A common fault, so I changed the coilpack, the leads were knackered as a well as the plugs so they've all been done.

I then double checked positions. Cleared fault codes.

Exactly the same as before. The battery is on it's last legs so I used a spare one I had knocking around to no avail.

Also checked the first steps like fuses, oil.

Damn thing still won't start. Same symptoms as before. Absolute nightmare to start and when it does it sounds like a tractor.

Anybody have any suggestions?

[750turbo]

Prof Prolapse said:

I've had a Ford Fiesta 1.3 Duratec 2003 dropped off at my house.

The AA bloke and my own OBD II reader said it was the coilpack. A common fault, so I changed the coilpack, the leads were knackered as a well as the plugs so they've all been done.

I then double checked positions. Cleared fault codes.

Exactly the same as before. The battery is on it's last legs so I used a spare one I had knocking around to no avail.

Also checked the first steps like fuses, oil.

Damn thing still won't start. Same symptoms as before. Absolute nightmare to start and when it does it sounds like a tractor.

Anybody have any suggestions?

Mis-fuelled?

[catman]

I had this on a Mondeo before. I spent a lot of time and money on replacement parts, and then I found out that the new replacement coil pack was faulty!

Tim

[Prof Prolapse]

I don't like the idea that the coil pack is faulty as they're non-returnable! Now I think of it though... During the AA man's attempt to start he tried another coil pack which again didn't resolve the issue... So this would be the third coilpack.

I sincerely hope this isn't ECU related.

Always back to fuel and spark I suppose. I just feel convinced it's something to do with the coil packs and ignition system and was hoping someone else would have experience specific to this particular car.

Oh well fuel and spark checking it is. The question is do I fork out for the spark plug checker at halfords or electrocute myself 4 times... Oh decisions.

[catman]

I returned mine and got a refund!

Tim

[mcford]

Had the same on a Fiesta a while back, 3 coil packs were tried without any success. The fault turned out to be the ECU.

[Prof Prolapse]

mcford said:

Had the same on a Fiesta a while back, 3 coil packs were tried without any success. The fault turned out to be the ECU.

I've since managed to get it running. It does however run like absolute crap under 1000rpm. The DTC codes still claim coilpack and misfire.

The symptoms are that of MAF (although I'm damned if I can find it).

After I've ruled out the rest I'll be sending the ECU off for diagnosis.

[Mr2Mike]

Have you checked all the vacuum hoses, especially the one between the inlet manifold and the PCV valve?

[morgrp]

Will a salvo ecu fit? Being a pretty simple car I would guess it would - being common as muck too should
Mean a used ecu will be way less than 100quid

[Prof Prolapse]

Mr2Mike said:

Have you checked all the vacuum hoses, especially the one between the inlet manifold and the PCV valve?

Checked all hoses and connections. Won't hurt to check again though. It would seem odd if it was the hose though. 1) Because it's absolutely horrendous and 2) because the car allegedly ran fine before it failed entirely and the coilpack errors came up.

Worth a shot though cheers.

[Prof Prolapse]

morgrp said:

Will a salvo ecu fit? Being a pretty simple car I would guess it would - being common as muck too should
Mean a used ecu will be way less than 100quid

I can get it tested for about £30 though brother. Will know for certain that way.

[StevelKinevil]

Another vote for ECU considering what has been changed and checked.

[yorkshirephil]

Connections to coilpack and any associated wiring is a good place to start.

[seagrey]

Coilpack drivers/relays in the ecu is a common failure on that era of fieta/focus etc.

[Prof Prolapse]

yorkshirephil said:

Connections to coilpack and any associated wiring is a good place to start.

Yeah tried this as well... Harder than it sounds with European lowest bidder boxes and their love of st plastic over every surface.

Once it was running I tried to provoke it by shaking just about every wire. Cleaned out what looked like a main -ve battery earth that was looking tired as well.

[Steve H]

If you are relying ton your OBD reader to provide a diagnosis and can't tell that the car doesn't have a MAF then you probably aren't going to get very far. Either keep guessing and throwing parts randomly at it or get someone in who can actually diagnose the fault.

[nelly1]

There's not too much to the ignition system, so after ruling out the coil pack itself, I would check the following:-

• Are all the relevant connectors / pins ok and free from corrosion?

• Are you getting a good 12 volt feed to the coil (pin 2 above)? Is this voltage holding up under load?

• Are the cam and crank sensor plugs secure? Are these sensors dirty?

• Is the base engine ok? What are the compressions on the individual cylinders?

• Are the injectors ok? Is the engine getting the correct fuelling?

• Did this problem start over time or instantaneously?

• After all the above, it may be the ECU at fault.

[Prof Prolapse]

Steve H said:

If you are relying ton your OBD reader to provide a diagnosis and can't tell that the car doesn't have a MAF then you probably aren't going to get very far. Either keep guessing and throwing parts randomly at it or get someone in who can actually diagnose the fault.

It's hardly random and I'm not relying solely on the OBD II, however only a fool would ignore it wouldn't he? OBD II and second opinion states coilpack has failed so I change the coilpack.

As for the lack of a MAF thing... I hardly think it's sensible to abandon all DIY mechanics when we're confronted with something we've not seen before. I've repaired plenty of cars (and recently a bike) over the years by learning as I go I've no shame in asking questions.

[Prof Prolapse]

nelly1 said:

There's not too much to the ignition system, so after ruling out the coil pack itself, I would check the following:-

• Are all the relevant connectors / pins ok and free from corrosion?

• Are you getting a good 12 volt feed to the coil (pin 2 above)? Is this voltage holding up under load?

• Are the cam and crank sensor plugs secure? Are these sensors dirty?

• Is the base engine ok? What are the compressions on the individual cylinders?

• Are the injectors ok? Is the engine getting the correct fuelling?

• Did this problem start over time or instantaneously?

• After all the above, it may be the ECU at fault.

There's a couple of things there I can check and the diagram is very useful. Still leaning towards ECU.

Thanks.

[seagrey]

Its really very simple to test the ignition supply on these systems,with just a test light.

Dont take what it says on the screen of any diagnostics as literal truth,its a guide not fact,all it will see is misfires and faults being shown that the coil pack isnt working,it does not mean its the coilpack at fault.
you can put your obd reader away it has already led you to the fault.
you just have to narrow it down now which is simple:

Check that at the coil pack plug,green wire that there is 12v+ with ignition on.
Get a test light clipped on the positive terminal of the battery and probe the two black wires in the coil pack plug while some one else cranks the engine,
while cranking your test light should flash.if one or the other black wires does not produce a flashing/flickering light then its the coil pack drivers in the ecu.

If you have two pulses,which I seriously already doubt(through experience) that means your supply side is working including crank and cam sensors.
Which will mean your issues lie in possibly more expensive mechanical faults,its not uncommon for these to burn exh valves.

Edited by seagrey on Sunday 23 October 12:43