Worst Modern F1 driver to win a WDC
Discussion
So along the same lines as the greatest not to win, who is the least worthy driver for the last 30 years to win a WDC. Let's not be childish and say Schumacher or senna because of their antics; which driver was in a car beyond their abilities and all the luck went their way at the expense of their rivals.
For me, it's Kimi. Never liked him as a person or a driver, and Ferrari were Lucky in the whole "photocopierscandalgate" as they had a slower car with inferior (In my opinion) drivers to mclaren.
For me, it's Kimi. Never liked him as a person or a driver, and Ferrari were Lucky in the whole "photocopierscandalgate" as they had a slower car with inferior (In my opinion) drivers to mclaren.
Personally I never really got to grips with Damon Hill as world champ, he seemed to be just in the right place at the right time. I suppose in many ways the same could be said of Jenson Button although he has gone on to prove that he has outright talent to deserve his place in the history books.
marktul said:
Personally I never really got to grips with Damon Hill as world champ, he seemed to be just in the right place at the right time.
Damon's performances in the Arrows suggested that he might now have been all bad. Certainly the dearth of offers from rival teams perhaps suggested they agreed with you, however.skwdenyer said:
Damon's performances in the Arrows suggested that he might now have been all bad. Certainly the dearth of offers from rival teams perhaps suggested they agreed with you, however.
He just never seemed all that into it. Yeah he got annoyed when "people" drove into him but the rest of the time he seemed to be planning for his retirement. I think to be a great world champion you have to have a passion for the sport and wear your heart on your sleeve a bit. Even the ice cold Schumacher allowed his love of the sport to show through occasionally. Nick3point2 said:
For me, it's Kimi. Never liked him as a person or a driver, and Ferrari were Lucky in the whole "photocopierscandalgate" as they had a slower car with inferior (In my opinion) drivers to mclaren.
Kimi kinda suffered from the same problem as Damon, with his icy demeanour. Maybe if he had been able to "tweet" about his wild side away from the track then maybe he would have been seen in a different light?Schumacher's dominance was much more related to the power of the teams he drove for than his actual ability. Remember the start computer nonsense?
Very effective with the big teams bullying techniques added to the Bernie/Max crookery.
I think several of his wins were manufactured.
However, even his worst enemy, would admit the sheer energy and drive in the testing, testing, testing approach deserved some reward. Nobody ever tried harder.
Brilliantly consistent, but not above a bit of results massage
Very effective with the big teams bullying techniques added to the Bernie/Max crookery.
I think several of his wins were manufactured.
However, even his worst enemy, would admit the sheer energy and drive in the testing, testing, testing approach deserved some reward. Nobody ever tried harder.
Brilliantly consistent, but not above a bit of results massage
LOL Kimi Raikkonen, that's good one. In all seriousness though, since I've been following GP (1990 season), it's Hamilton. An inexperienced FFord competitor in the pre-90 Champion of Castle Combe wouldn't be cut any slack for doing something as stupid as what Hamilton did at the Canadian GP that year, yet Hamilton was a "champion" that year. Previous to that race, considering I remember watching Piquet's "win" at the '91 Canadian GP, Hamilton's '08 Monaco win is the least deserved win I've seen so far. The guy damaged his car through his own actions, the resulting trek back to the pits and subsequent stop puts him out of contention, and out of sync with everyone else, and as a result of a fortunate safety car period, was handed the lead which even Nelson Piquet would be embarrassed about! At a circuit easiest to defend at, what a champ!
Then, when you include his choke at the Brazlian GP, he somehow, despite doing everything he could to lose the title, fumbled his way to, and in some respects was given, the title. He can't even say he won equal most races that year, and these facts lead me to nominate his '08 title as the least assertive title won that I've seen, therefore, Hamilton is the "Worst Modern" champ so far. Say what you like about Hill and Villeneuve, those guys won the title with more authority than what Hamilton did. Also, a special mention to Vettel last year.
Then, when you include his choke at the Brazlian GP, he somehow, despite doing everything he could to lose the title, fumbled his way to, and in some respects was given, the title. He can't even say he won equal most races that year, and these facts lead me to nominate his '08 title as the least assertive title won that I've seen, therefore, Hamilton is the "Worst Modern" champ so far. Say what you like about Hill and Villeneuve, those guys won the title with more authority than what Hamilton did. Also, a special mention to Vettel last year.
Edited by 28jaguar on Monday 24th October 08:16
marktul said:
Even the ice cold Schumacher allowed his love of the sport to show through occasionally.
I think Schumacher's passion for the sport is self-evident; he retired for a bit, realised that he really, really couldn't leave it alone, and came back to race in a car that could not and would not guarantee wins or even success. But he just had to race, and race in F1.It's not like he needed the money.
On pure results and points, Keke Rosberg stands out - although he was as great a "racer" as Gilles Villeneuve.
Damon Hill's championship was actually the end result of a four year process at Williams which he deserved purely because of the test work he put in over the period 1993 to 1996.
I would suggest that Damon's testing did a lot to ensure Prost won the championship in 1993.
Even though he won the championship three times, I never really took to Nelson Piquet. He just seemed to plod into his titles without doing anything outstanding.
Damon Hill's championship was actually the end result of a four year process at Williams which he deserved purely because of the test work he put in over the period 1993 to 1996.
I would suggest that Damon's testing did a lot to ensure Prost won the championship in 1993.
Even though he won the championship three times, I never really took to Nelson Piquet. He just seemed to plod into his titles without doing anything outstanding.
Johnboy Mac said:
Eric Mc said:
Even though he won the championship three times, I never really took to Nelson Piquet. He just seemed to plod into his titles without doing anything outstanding.
So good, he didn't need to do anything outstanding bar being bloody quick? marktul said:
Personally I never really got to grips with Damon Hill as world champ, he seemed to be just in the right place at the right time. I suppose in many ways the same could be said of Jenson Button although he has gone on to prove that he has outright talent to deserve his place in the history books.
Is that the same Hill who lapped Prost, his team mate in an identical car, at Donington? Or the one who would have won the WDC after pressurising Schumacher into a mistake?Right place, right time is what happened to virtually all the WDCs.
Piquet was a bit of a conundrum. When he wanted to be he would beat anyone. He was world class, one of the most naturally gifted drivers I've ever seen. Unfortunatly, he lacked committment. He wanted the easy life. His problem was that he had expensive tastes. A 100m yacht, complete with second 'wife' took a lot of upkeep.
My feeling is that he was in it for the money and lifestyle. I've been told by an ex-Brabham mechanic that when he had #1 on his car he didn't try.
That he struggled against Mansell still really confuses me. He seemed spooked by him, even, it seems, requiring Honda to supply him with inferior engine management systems. And then still losing on occasion.
But to return to Hill, here was a chap who showed his worth in good cars and bad. He put the Arrows on the front row of the grid. Was that Spain? He was all but WDC twice, although of course if he had won it the first time Frank Williams would have dumped him.
The first race of the season with Villeneuve showed how good he was. He followed in second place for most of the race until Villeneuve kerbed his car so often that he broke it. Hill then took the lead and won easily. Hill's driving behind Villeneuve showed his ability.
Hill's main problem, and one he didn't fully overcome, was that he lacked passion for the sport. I think he would have been happier on bikes.
Derek Smith said:
The first race of the season with Villeneuve showed how good he was. He followed in second place for most of the race until Villeneuve kerbed his car so often that he broke it. Hill then took the lead and won easily. Hill's driving behind Villeneuve showed his ability.
Hill only won that race because the team forced Villeneuve to cede, Villeneuves car was perfectly able to carry on at a pace where Hill wouldnt have been able to pass him.Also remember Hills attitude when winning at Spa in 98 too, If (the far faster at the time) Schumacher tries to pass me I'll take us both off. Little EJ could do really but ask RS to hold when he was clearly quicker
rampageturke said:
Schumacher or senna, their antics were stupid
Good call! Always said senna was going to kill himself (or more probably someone else)Both of them ruled the tracks more by fear than skill.
Good to see someone put their names foward fed up with hearing how great/skillful they are/were
freedman said:
Derek Smith said:
The first race of the season with Villeneuve showed how good he was. He followed in second place for most of the race until Villeneuve kerbed his car so often that he broke it. Hill then took the lead and won easily. Hill's driving behind Villeneuve showed his ability.
Hill only won that race because the team forced Villeneuve to cede, Villeneuves car was perfectly able to carry on at a pace where Hill wouldnt have been able to pass him.Also remember Hills attitude when winning at Spa in 98 too, If (the far faster at the time) Schumacher tries to pass me I'll take us both off. Little EJ could do really but ask RS to hold when he was clearly quicker
My understanding was that he was losing so much oil that he would not have finished the race if he had continued at the pace he was setting in the lead - trying to keep ahead of Hill.
Roadru77er said:
Good call! Always said senna was going to kill himself (or more probably someone else)
Both of them ruled the tracks more by fear than skill.
Good to see someone put their names foward fed up with hearing how great/skillful they are/were
Possibly the most ill informed post Ive ever read on hereBoth of them ruled the tracks more by fear than skill.
Good to see someone put their names foward fed up with hearing how great/skillful they are/were
freedman said:
Roadru77er said:
Good call! Always said senna was going to kill himself (or more probably someone else)
Both of them ruled the tracks more by fear than skill.
Good to see someone put their names foward fed up with hearing how great/skillful they are/were
Possibly the most ill informed post Ive ever read on hereBoth of them ruled the tracks more by fear than skill.
Good to see someone put their names foward fed up with hearing how great/skillful they are/were
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff