Active Suspension
Discussion
Afternoon all.
Few mentions of Active Suspension in the forum got me googling, but bnot found anything that helpful:
How did the Active suspension systems in the FW14B and the earlier Lotus work - active vs reactive etc.
Pre-programmed or river controlled, or truely active and adaptable?
Thanks!
Tim
Few mentions of Active Suspension in the forum got me googling, but bnot found anything that helpful:
How did the Active suspension systems in the FW14B and the earlier Lotus work - active vs reactive etc.
Pre-programmed or river controlled, or truely active and adaptable?
Thanks!
Tim
I believe early implementations (e.g. Lotus 99T) were reactive but not hugely successful because computers of the time lacked the processing power to react quickly enough. Additionally, using active ride carried a significant weight and power penalty.
There's still not a great deal of detail around how the Williams systems functioned - I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was 'programmed' to a particular circuit's characteristics, and would calculate where the car was on the circuit based on wheel speed and time elapsed and adjust the car's attitude accordingly. That could be incorrect, though - a quick Google search doesn't bring up any definitive data, sorry!
There's still not a great deal of detail around how the Williams systems functioned - I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was 'programmed' to a particular circuit's characteristics, and would calculate where the car was on the circuit based on wheel speed and time elapsed and adjust the car's attitude accordingly. That could be incorrect, though - a quick Google search doesn't bring up any definitive data, sorry!
Interesting little clip on YT on the Lotus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTURKAhFBJA
And here's the 1990 vette with Active suspension that he talks that it might appear on
http://www.supercars.net/cars/4349.html
http://www.supercars.net/cars/4349.html
Life Saab Itch said:
I remember the Williams leaning in to corners. 
It could also lower the rear of the car down the straights to reduce the drag from the rear wing.By late 1993 most of the big teams had this capability and it was the cause of a crash for Gerhard Berger at the Portugese GP when his car incorrectly lowered the rear of the car when he exited the pits following a pitstop (before the days of pitlane speed limits so cars went hell for leather after stopping). The car bottomed out on a bump and he spun across the track, straight into the barrier on the other side, narrowly missing 2 cars.
Remember that the big benefit of "active suspension" on formula cars is to aerodynamic performance, not mechanical grip (i.e. you can keep the car at the same attitude to the road to harvest the full benefits of gorund effect without sudden and unannounced loses of downforce just when the driver didn't expect them!!
Max_Torque said:
Remember that the big benefit of "active suspension" on formula cars is to aerodynamic performance, not mechanical grip (i.e. you can keep the car at the same attitude to the road to harvest the full benefits of gorund effect without sudden and unannounced loses of downforce just when the driver didn't expect them!!
This is what the active suspension fitted to FW14B was all about. Springs and dampers are replaced with computer controlled hydraulic rams with the intention of maintaining a specific pre programmed attitude.What that attitude was is entirely down to the programming, tail down on the straights, lean into corners against the roll, etc.
Max_Torque said:
Remember that the big benefit of "active suspension" on formula cars is to aerodynamic performance, not mechanical grip (i.e. you can keep the car at the same attitude to the road to harvest the full benefits of gorund effect without sudden and unannounced loses of downforce just when the driver didn't expect them!!
This was one of the reasons the '94 Williams was a tricky drive at the start of the season. The suspension was massively firm to keep the car level and a set distance from the track, which made it jittery.busa turbo said:
link to the williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjbc1tmKi6g
An impressive F1 car by all accounts.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjbc1tmKi6g
Megaflow said:
This is what the active suspension fitted to FW14B was all about. Springs and dampers are replaced with computer controlled hydraulic rams with the intention of maintaining a specific pre programmed attitude.
What that attitude was is entirely down to the programming, tail down on the straights, lean into corners against the roll, etc.
Indeed F1 teams today still use active ride on aero test days, as it gives a stable platform to evaluate a new aero part off.What that attitude was is entirely down to the programming, tail down on the straights, lean into corners against the roll, etc.
AlexS said:
This was one of the reasons the '94 Williams was a tricky drive at the start of the season. The suspension was massively firm to keep the car level and a set distance from the track, which made it jittery.
Yes it was one of the problems with that car, but also an error on the front aero, that ruined the handling.From reading a few books about senna that mentions his move to williams in 94 and about why the williams was difficult to drive in 94. The authors mention that it was down to the car being designed with active suspension in mind; active then got banned and there was not enough time to re-design around it so they had no choice but to run with conventional springs and dampers.
I'm fascinated by all of this kind of stuff on the cars; there is a scene in the senna movie which shows the williams going through a suspension routine while jacked up in the air.
I'm fascinated by all of this kind of stuff on the cars; there is a scene in the senna movie which shows the williams going through a suspension routine while jacked up in the air.
The Williams system, which is probably better classified as ‘reactive’, was an adapted AP road car system and based on powered hydraulics. In its original form there were 3 gas spring dampers not unlike Citroen plus 4 actuators and hydraulic pump.
There were 2 circuits, pitch and roll with 3 control valves directing the pressure. The control valves were mechanical and operated directly by the suspension arms. The valves had weighted spring dampers to act as the low pass filter in the control loop. This way the system would ignore bumps and only react to true pitch and roll moments.
This was fitted in the FW10 development car. What Williams did that was different to AP was to reverse the control circuits so that the double action hydraulic struts were at the front and the single action ones at the rear. Double action means they could be pumped up or down, rather than down only.
The weighted spring dampers for the control valves were not accurate enough for the precision of ride height control so these were replaced with electronically controlled servo valves.
This ended up fitted to the FW11B.
It was not the most compliant of systems but as Frank Dernie observed "the drivers are paid to deal with the bumps, I am paid to make the car quicker"....
There were 2 circuits, pitch and roll with 3 control valves directing the pressure. The control valves were mechanical and operated directly by the suspension arms. The valves had weighted spring dampers to act as the low pass filter in the control loop. This way the system would ignore bumps and only react to true pitch and roll moments.
This was fitted in the FW10 development car. What Williams did that was different to AP was to reverse the control circuits so that the double action hydraulic struts were at the front and the single action ones at the rear. Double action means they could be pumped up or down, rather than down only.
The weighted spring dampers for the control valves were not accurate enough for the precision of ride height control so these were replaced with electronically controlled servo valves.
This ended up fitted to the FW11B.
It was not the most compliant of systems but as Frank Dernie observed "the drivers are paid to deal with the bumps, I am paid to make the car quicker"....
Max_Torque said:
Remember that the big benefit of "active suspension" on formula cars is to aerodynamic performance, not mechanical grip (i.e. you can keep the car at the same attitude to the road to harvest the full benefits of gorund effect without sudden and unannounced loses of downforce just when the driver didn't expect them!!
Off topic completely, but I sent you an email a week or so back, doesn't look like you got it?busa turbo said:
link to the williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjbc1tmKi6g
I see he was programing the suspension with a Psion Organiser 2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjbc1tmKi6g
Funny, I don't remember that program pack from Psion
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