Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) wonky, can id be welded?
Discussion
It appears the DMF on my Alfa 156 1.9 jtd has gone, the car has +- 100k miles under the belt.
This seems to be a very common problem.
As replacement flywheels (single mass only, dual mass isn't available according to my indy) are bloody expensive, the indy suggested welding the flywheel.
What do you guys reckon? Good or bad idea?
(for those of you that voted on my previous thread about what car to get: I will hang on to the 156 for a while longer, as the cash might be needed for a house purchase in the next couple of months, god I hate being sensible from time to time...)
This seems to be a very common problem.
As replacement flywheels (single mass only, dual mass isn't available according to my indy) are bloody expensive, the indy suggested welding the flywheel.
What do you guys reckon? Good or bad idea?
(for those of you that voted on my previous thread about what car to get: I will hang on to the 156 for a while longer, as the cash might be needed for a house purchase in the next couple of months, god I hate being sensible from time to time...)
Even with a sprung clutch, I would be wary of either welding it up or getting a solid replacement. One of the main reasons, AFAIK, for the development of DMF, is that modern cars, especially diesels, have high torque and the fluctuations (spelt correctly to avoid offending those who do not like swearing...) do not do any favours to transmission systems.
Petemate said:
Even with a sprung clutch, I would be wary of either welding it up or getting a solid replacement. One of the main reasons, AFAIK, for the development of DMF, is that modern cars, especially diesels, have high torque and the fluctuations (spelt correctly to avoid offending those who do not like swearing...) do not do any favours to transmission systems.
True, but the DMF really only operates at low engine speeds to protect the transmission from snatch, and reduce vibration. Drive sensibly with a solid flywheel, no problem.eldar said:
Petemate said:
Even with a sprung clutch, I would be wary of either welding it up or getting a solid replacement. One of the main reasons, AFAIK, for the development of DMF, is that modern cars, especially diesels, have high torque and the fluctuations (spelt correctly to avoid offending those who do not like swearing...) do not do any favours to transmission systems.
True, but the DMF really only operates at low engine speeds to protect the transmission from snatch, and reduce vibration. Drive sensibly with a solid flywheel, no problem.Local taxi firm got their entire skoda fleet converted to SMF... engines a little rougher in places, but who gives a crap its a taxi.
DMF's should be alright so long as you drive nicely... People who constantly keep the diesel engine in a low speed and try accelerating in high gears from low speed are what does them in.
DMF's should be alright so long as you drive nicely... People who constantly keep the diesel engine in a low speed and try accelerating in high gears from low speed are what does them in.
Church of Noise said:
It appears the DMF on my Alfa 156 1.9 jtd has gone, the car has +- 100k miles under the belt.
This seems to be a very common problem.
As replacement flywheels (single mass only, dual mass isn't available according to my indy) are bloody expensive, the indy suggested welding the flywheel.
Of course it's available, just have a look on e.g. Eurocarparts.This seems to be a very common problem.
As replacement flywheels (single mass only, dual mass isn't available according to my indy) are bloody expensive, the indy suggested welding the flywheel.
If the flywheel is cast iron, then I don't like the idea of having it welded.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Local taxi firm got their entire skoda fleet converted to SMF... engines a little rougher in places, but who gives a crap its a taxi.
DMF's should be alright so long as you drive nicely... People who constantly keep the diesel engine in a low speed and try accelerating in high gears from low speed are what does them in.
And that's exactly what will do in the transmission without a DMF.DMF's should be alright so long as you drive nicely... People who constantly keep the diesel engine in a low speed and try accelerating in high gears from low speed are what does them in.
lost in espace said:
Be careful with Euroc*rparts cheaper clutches. Mine blew up at 2k, it was a SMF conversion kit.
Luchs are the only way to go, keep your eye on ebay!
Valeo (the brand sold by ECP) are OEM for numerous manufacturers. Never heard of Luchs though, do you mean Luk?Luchs are the only way to go, keep your eye on ebay!
Sachs dual mass flywheels are also available for this engine.
There have been many posts on DMF in other sections of PH.Yes,they are a problem and yes they are expensive.I have replaced many and have considered fitting "solid kits" to my customers cars,until I saw this report,trouble is I can not remember where it was,long time ago.In simple terms these engines are designed around a duel mass flywheel.There have been a number of cases of broken crankshafts and bell housings after solid kits where fitted.Think about it,a DMF is like a spring/damper and if you take the "give" away and make it solid something else has to give and will vibrate.
Old Merc said:
There have been many posts on DMF in other sections of PH.Yes,they are a problem and yes they are expensive.I have replaced many and have considered fitting "solid kits" to my customers cars,until I saw this report,trouble is I can not remember where it was,long time ago.In simple terms these engines are designed around a duel mass flywheel.There have been a number of cases of broken crankshafts and bell housings after solid kits where fitted.Think about it,a DMF is like a spring/damper and if you take the "give" away and make it solid something else has to give and will vibrate.
Interesting....LUK put out a tech bulletin saying something very similar in Europe a few years back. It was a very noble statement to make, ensuring that their customers never came to any harm. However, there are a few other factors to take into consideration....
- LUK manufacture most European market DMFs and have a monopoly on them in the aftermarket so it is in their interest to ensure they get re-fitted.
- Valeo, their main competitor, make the 4 piece kits to convert a DMF to solid flywheel, at the time LUK didn't do them.
- High mileage vehicles such as taxis and vans may well need more than 1 replacement clutch in their lifetime, and fitting a 4 piece kit limits you to the Valeo clutch next time around.
- In the USA LUK were issuing advice which was TOTALLY THE OPPOSITE of the European advice in telling people to fit a solid flywheel conversion to (I think) the Ford 7.3 litre diesel in the F series trucks!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff