Fitting a shower. "on the cheap".
Discussion
I'm going to fit a shower on the weekend. Just after some hints and tips please. I will show you pics of before/after once im done.
Here is my plan.
At the moment we have a bath with 3 roles of 6" tiles around the bath. (2 walls, in corner, taps against the wall).
Firstly Hack off the tiles.
Remove bath panel.
Shut water off and drain down.
Remove taps
Clean off the tile /bath seal strips.
With new tiles of choice tile from bath to cieling, starting at the ends of the bath and work into the corner.
Grout tiles.
Fit new tap/shower combo. The old fashioned ones where the shower sits accross the taps and can be hooked up on the wall (I like these).
Replace bath panel.
Fit a shower screen at edge of bath on top of the edge of the tiles. Is this risky? Should I fit to the wall, with the tiles stopping at the frame?
Stand back and take a look.
Get in shower, see if it works.
Am I missing anything. Seems really straight forward.
Here is my plan.
At the moment we have a bath with 3 roles of 6" tiles around the bath. (2 walls, in corner, taps against the wall).
Firstly Hack off the tiles.
Remove bath panel.
Shut water off and drain down.
Remove taps
Clean off the tile /bath seal strips.
With new tiles of choice tile from bath to cieling, starting at the ends of the bath and work into the corner.
Grout tiles.
Fit new tap/shower combo. The old fashioned ones where the shower sits accross the taps and can be hooked up on the wall (I like these).
Replace bath panel.
Fit a shower screen at edge of bath on top of the edge of the tiles. Is this risky? Should I fit to the wall, with the tiles stopping at the frame?
Stand back and take a look.
Get in shower, see if it works.
Am I missing anything. Seems really straight forward.
If you have a combination boiler the pressure from the pump will probably provide enough, maybe. The issue with gravity feed (via an emerson tank etc) with those mixer taps (without a stat) means that the pressure from the cold is probably enough to force more cold out of the head, sometimes it works only if the head is so far up the wall and even then the amount of cold you can add is so minimal it becomes difficult to maintain a constant temperature.
If you have a non pressurized supply or no pump for the hot you might struggle without using a power shower. A heated power shower requires a very thick cable as they consume a few kWh.
If you have a pressurized supply I would invest in a Grohe, german made and imo the best thermostatically controlled showers on the market, even in a hard water area ours was superb so I bought another for our current house.
You could tee off the pipes supplying water to the bath and chase the shower pipes into the wall and have them exit where you want the shower taps to be, alternatively, run the pipes in the ceiling and come down the wall on the tap side of the bath using silver pipes, which can look really smart if done symmetrically and level.
If you have a non pressurized supply or no pump for the hot you might struggle without using a power shower. A heated power shower requires a very thick cable as they consume a few kWh.
If you have a pressurized supply I would invest in a Grohe, german made and imo the best thermostatically controlled showers on the market, even in a hard water area ours was superb so I bought another for our current house.
You could tee off the pipes supplying water to the bath and chase the shower pipes into the wall and have them exit where you want the shower taps to be, alternatively, run the pipes in the ceiling and come down the wall on the tap side of the bath using silver pipes, which can look really smart if done symmetrically and level.
1. See Arthur's question.
2. If you don't remove the wall paper you're relying on it to stay 100% stuck as that's is what your tiles will be stuck to. If the wall paper peels off with the weight, or gets wet behind it, the tiles will come off. do a proper job and strip it where needed.
3. When the tiles are removed, make sure there is a silicone bead between the wall and the bath before you start laying new tiles against the bath. This will be your second line (see point 6) as such.
4. Work out your tiles correctly as opposed to just starting at the end and hoping all works out. You don't want a naff 10mm cut in the corner. It looks dreadful! Your tiles should fold around the corner as such. Also work out the height as you don't want a naff cut against the ceiling or bath.
Is the bath 100% level? I'd work out the tiles (with spacers) to the ceiling and see what cuts you'll have. Run a wooden batten around the wall and tile up from it. Then remove when the tiles and set and tile in the to bath with cuts.
5. The shower screen wants to be mounted on top of tiles, not on the wall and then tiled up to. So tile the whole bath area. Grout all the tiles. then mount the screen onto the grouted tiles. Also, when fitting, run silicone down the back of the profile before screwing to the wall and make sure that you put silicone between the bath and tiles before mounting the profile, otherwise you end up with an 1.5" not siliconed and water pours down through it.
6. Silicone on the outside of the shower profile only, not the inside.
7. Silicone down the corner where the two walls meet as if it's grouted, the grout will crack and break out. Also silicone again around the bath where you've tiled down to it. This is your first line of defence.
8. Stand back take a look. Wait 12 hours. Have a shower.
2. If you don't remove the wall paper you're relying on it to stay 100% stuck as that's is what your tiles will be stuck to. If the wall paper peels off with the weight, or gets wet behind it, the tiles will come off. do a proper job and strip it where needed.
3. When the tiles are removed, make sure there is a silicone bead between the wall and the bath before you start laying new tiles against the bath. This will be your second line (see point 6) as such.
4. Work out your tiles correctly as opposed to just starting at the end and hoping all works out. You don't want a naff 10mm cut in the corner. It looks dreadful! Your tiles should fold around the corner as such. Also work out the height as you don't want a naff cut against the ceiling or bath.
Is the bath 100% level? I'd work out the tiles (with spacers) to the ceiling and see what cuts you'll have. Run a wooden batten around the wall and tile up from it. Then remove when the tiles and set and tile in the to bath with cuts.
5. The shower screen wants to be mounted on top of tiles, not on the wall and then tiled up to. So tile the whole bath area. Grout all the tiles. then mount the screen onto the grouted tiles. Also, when fitting, run silicone down the back of the profile before screwing to the wall and make sure that you put silicone between the bath and tiles before mounting the profile, otherwise you end up with an 1.5" not siliconed and water pours down through it.
6. Silicone on the outside of the shower profile only, not the inside.
7. Silicone down the corner where the two walls meet as if it's grouted, the grout will crack and break out. Also silicone again around the bath where you've tiled down to it. This is your first line of defence.
8. Stand back take a look. Wait 12 hours. Have a shower.
Arthur Jackson said:
RV8 said:
If you have a combination boiler the pressure from the pump will probably provide enough, maybe.
What? What pump? Eh?Why do people call it an immersion tank or immersion cylinder. Gets my goat. It's a hot water cylinder and the immersion heater is an optional means of heat, normally back up.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Tuesday 25th October 19:39
Surprised you're surprised. Not totally unusual to have a pump. Some systems have a pump for the HW not just the CH. My folks last place needed a pressure tank and pump just to be able to send water to the other side of the house and this was with a gravity drop assisting. On bigger places you are limited.
Immersion heater, whatever you prefer. Some systems (like a baxi on a timer) need somewhere to store the HW either generated by the boiler, on some systems electric is the only way you have HW heated (our old flat was night storage heaters and electric immersion) The HW tank also had a pump which fired up on demand, due to there being no gravity feed, such as with the shower or taps / washing machine etc and helped the water find it's way to the kitchen / bathroom. Some showers are powered like this too from a HW tank rather than a hot on demand system like a combi.
I might be wrong but I think combis just use the domestic pressure to deliver the HW supply, normally unless they form part of a HW storage system which replenishes the HW store via thermostatic or timed control. My folks current oil boiler does this - HW on demand only after tanks have been emptied.
Immersion heater, whatever you prefer. Some systems (like a baxi on a timer) need somewhere to store the HW either generated by the boiler, on some systems electric is the only way you have HW heated (our old flat was night storage heaters and electric immersion) The HW tank also had a pump which fired up on demand, due to there being no gravity feed, such as with the shower or taps / washing machine etc and helped the water find it's way to the kitchen / bathroom. Some showers are powered like this too from a HW tank rather than a hot on demand system like a combi.
I might be wrong but I think combis just use the domestic pressure to deliver the HW supply, normally unless they form part of a HW storage system which replenishes the HW store via thermostatic or timed control. My folks current oil boiler does this - HW on demand only after tanks have been emptied.
RV8 said:
Surprised you're surprised. Not totally unusual to have a pump. Some systems have a pump for the HW not just the CH. My folks last place needed a pressure tank and pump just to be able to send water to the other side of the house and this was with a gravity drop assisting. On bigger places you are limited.
Immersion heater, whatever you prefer. Some systems (like a baxi on a timer) need somewhere to store the HW either generated by the boiler, on some systems electric is the only way you have HW heated (our old flat was night storage heaters and electric immersion) The HW tank also had a pump which fired up on demand, due to there being no gravity feed, such as with the shower or taps / washing machine etc and helped the water find it's way to the kitchen / bathroom. Some showers are powered like this too from a HW tank rather than a hot on demand system like a combi.
I might be wrong but I think combis just use the domestic pressure to deliver the HW supply, normally unless they form part of a HW storage system which replenishes the HW store via thermostatic or timed control. My folks current oil boiler does this - HW on demand only after tanks have been emptied.
I think the confusion was because your earlier post suggested that combi's have a pump for the HW.Immersion heater, whatever you prefer. Some systems (like a baxi on a timer) need somewhere to store the HW either generated by the boiler, on some systems electric is the only way you have HW heated (our old flat was night storage heaters and electric immersion) The HW tank also had a pump which fired up on demand, due to there being no gravity feed, such as with the shower or taps / washing machine etc and helped the water find it's way to the kitchen / bathroom. Some showers are powered like this too from a HW tank rather than a hot on demand system like a combi.
I might be wrong but I think combis just use the domestic pressure to deliver the HW supply, normally unless they form part of a HW storage system which replenishes the HW store via thermostatic or timed control. My folks current oil boiler does this - HW on demand only after tanks have been emptied.
Arthur Jackson said:
A pump on the hot water from a Combi is VERY,VERY unusual. A few companies have had a go and dropped them.
Oil combis generally store HEATING water to push through the heat exchanger, not domestic hot water.
Odd I know, never known a system like it, it's got a small cylinder also, even so this is heated via a timer so demand is only fulfilled during a timed cycle but domestic HW is supplied on demand during the timed cycle (or can be constant). It's probably there to supply domestic HW during the period the boiler is off, and it's not an immersion heater, this is for sure. Oil combis generally store HEATING water to push through the heat exchanger, not domestic hot water.
It confused them at first, and me. It's at least 20 years old at a guess.
This is the oil one I'm on about.
Edited by RV8 on Tuesday 25th October 21:16
Ahh, I'm worried now.
Can anyone advise me wether i have a pump or not.
The house has no Gas, So the water is heated with an immersion in a tank located in the bathroom cupboard. There is a timer for when it comes on and off but apart from that it's very basic. I'm not sure if there is a pump.
I dont want to fit an electric shower as I cant be bothered with the electrics or re rueting copper pipes.
I thought it sounded all to easy.
Thanks for the steps Gingerbread. Why do you not seal behind the profile.
Can anyone advise me wether i have a pump or not.
The house has no Gas, So the water is heated with an immersion in a tank located in the bathroom cupboard. There is a timer for when it comes on and off but apart from that it's very basic. I'm not sure if there is a pump.
I dont want to fit an electric shower as I cant be bothered with the electrics or re rueting copper pipes.
I thought it sounded all to easy.
Thanks for the steps Gingerbread. Why do you not seal behind the profile.
rufusgti said:
Ahh, I'm worried now.
Can anyone advise me wether i have a pump or not.
The house has no Gas, So the water is heated with an immersion in a tank located in the bathroom cupboard. There is a timer for when it comes on and off but apart from that it's very basic. I'm not sure if there is a pump.
I dont want to fit an electric shower as I cant be bothered with the electrics or re rueting copper pipes.
I thought it sounded all to easy.
Thanks for the steps Gingerbread. Why do you not seal behind the profile.
Why do you not seal down the inside of the profile? So any water that gets behind the profile can get out. When you seal both sides, water always seems to get in, fills up the profile and then tends to piss out all at once, normally through a downstairs light socket!Can anyone advise me wether i have a pump or not.
The house has no Gas, So the water is heated with an immersion in a tank located in the bathroom cupboard. There is a timer for when it comes on and off but apart from that it's very basic. I'm not sure if there is a pump.
I dont want to fit an electric shower as I cant be bothered with the electrics or re rueting copper pipes.
I thought it sounded all to easy.
Thanks for the steps Gingerbread. Why do you not seal behind the profile.
In regards to water. Press your palm against the cold tap outlet on the bath. Then turn it on, if you can hold it back, it'll almost certainly be low pressure.
Hot wise, is the tank feeding the cylinder in the same cuboard just above the cylinder or in the loft? I'm thinking that without a pump, you'll have no pressure to speak of coming out of a high up shower head.
Two low pressure feeds and a pump?
Trevi boost?
Electric shower?
rufusgti said:
Ahh, I'm worried now.
Can anyone advise me wether i have a pump or not.
The house has no Gas, So the water is heated with an immersion in a tank located in the bathroom cupboard. There is a timer for when it comes on and off but apart from that it's very basic. I'm not sure if there is a pump.
I dont want to fit an electric shower as I cant be bothered with the electrics or re rueting copper pipes.
I thought it sounded all to easy.
Thanks for the steps Gingerbread. Why do you not seal behind the profile.
From your description it sounds like you have a basic gravity fed system with an immersion element in the hot water tank.Can anyone advise me wether i have a pump or not.
The house has no Gas, So the water is heated with an immersion in a tank located in the bathroom cupboard. There is a timer for when it comes on and off but apart from that it's very basic. I'm not sure if there is a pump.
I dont want to fit an electric shower as I cant be bothered with the electrics or re rueting copper pipes.
I thought it sounded all to easy.
Thanks for the steps Gingerbread. Why do you not seal behind the profile.
The pressure in the hot side of your system comes from the height of the header tank above the hot water tank, the tank in the loft.
The difference in height between that tank and your water outlet (taps or shower) will determine the pressure of water to the tap/shower.
I would suggest that you may struggle to get a decent flow of hot water into the shower head because when the shower is high up on your bathroom wall it will have a much reduced height differential compared to the lower bathroom taps, therefore less pressure, and with 15mm pipes probably less flow, maybe not enough to have a decent shower.
In this case you'd need to boost the pressure with a pump.
But try it first without, you might find the pressure and flow gives you a decent enough shower.
But every time I've done what you're about to do I've been so pissed off with the crap shower that I've ended up plumbing in a decent power pump to give a shower that can strip flesh.
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