Time for Massa to leave?

[toppstuff]

This is NOTHING to do with the ongoing altercations with Hamilton, but I think Massa is looking pretty poor these days.

Lets consider:

1. He is not even close to competing with his team mate on a consistent basis.

2. He makes too many errors - the nail in the coffin for me is his recent abuse of his car, constantly hitting kerbs harder than everyone else. It is an idiotic thing - it seems to be lost to him that if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, the same thing happens. Bash your car against the kerbs harder than other drivers are doing, you risk breaking your car. To do it on Saturday and again on Sunday is frankly a poor show.

3. He has been at Ferrari for years now and his record is not that great. Other than the season when Hamilton pipped him to the championship, he has simply not delivered.

4. He is capable of great speed, but not capable of doing it consistently. At one time today he punched in a fastest lap, but he did not keep it up and only a few laps after being the fastest on the track he found Hamilton all over him. He lacks the kind of consistency demonstrated by someone like Button ( who showed uncanny ability at one stage to bank in 5 or 6 laps with the identical lap time to 1/100ths of a second !! ) and somehow I can never see Massa ever being as consistent as that.


I know that he had the injury and Ferrari have done the right thing and stood by him, but I think enough is enough. Time to leave.

I would like to see Alguersuari in the seat perhaps, maybe even Raikkonen. Ferrari need a stronger driver pairing.

And on the Hamilton issue, I think it is interesting that it is invariably a problem with Hamilton trying to pass Massa, never the other way round ! Maybe he should consider that the problem would be lessened if he was faster...

[FourWheelDrift]

Sergio Perez is the current favoured son of Maranello to become Alonso's bh.

[Scuffers]

toppstuff said:

some good stuff.

agree 100%

time to call it a day....

[Crafty_]

If I was Sutil I'd be banging on the doors at Marenello offering Medion as a Sponsor and ask for a small salary. They could pay Massa off like they did Kimi and to be honest I don't think Sutil could do any worse than Massa currently is.
Sutil is probably in need of a seat and if he can perform in the Ferrari it might let him break out of the midfield.
Win-win situation if it happened.

[williamp]

yes.He'll be alongside Fisifella at le mand next year

[snorkel sucker]

The biggest problem for any driver going to Ferrari is that they will be a no2. Depending on the driver in question, this may be an issue, despite the obvious lure of the prancing horse on their CV.

Unfortunately for Massa, he seems to be making too many mistakes for a Ferrari driver. If he were in a midfield team, or perhaps less experienced, his errors may go more unnoticed. But, at Ferrari - a team who expect to be fighting for podiums, those mistakes are, I am sure, starting to add up in Luca's little black book.

A quick look at some stats shows that Massa's best qualifying result this season was in Canada, where he was 3rd. He has not finished higher than 5th in any race this season, and his last podium was Korea in 2010 with a 3rd place.

There are many drivers "banging on the door" of F1, desperate for a seat. Many, I am sure, would also be happy to play second fiddle to Alonso if it meant getting a seat (and that is before mentioning that seat is at Ferrari).

I don't know when Massa's contract is up at Ferrari, but, based on his disappointing form this season, one can't help but wonder whether he will be there next season.

The man that nearly was. (Or was for 5 seconds or so!)

[AndrewW-G]

This again

Given his position within Ferrari and the relative pace of the car he is driving, he is the number 6 driver on the grid (team number two in the third fastest car) and is currently 6th in the championship, where else do people expect him to be?

If he really was as bad as people think, why has there been a certain McLaren stuck behind him in many of the races this season

[baz1985]

What about Webber?

[Scuffers]

baz1985 said:

What about Webber?

not quite the same, yes, he has been better, but at least he is trying and not hitting others doing it...

[AFC1886]

Both are not worthy to be in top teams imo.

[FourWheelDrift]

AndrewW-G said:

This again

Given his position within Ferrari and the relative pace of the car he is driving, he is the number 6 driver on the grid (team number two in the third fastest car) and is currently 6th in the championship, where else do people expect him to be?

If he really was as bad as people think, why has there been a certain McLaren stuck behind him in many of the races this season

Who has more than twice his points tally. This is the tail of the tape and what people will look at in years to come.

1	Sebastian Vettel	374
2	Jenson Button	240
3	Fernando Alonso	227
4	Mark Webber	221
5	Lewis Hamilton	202
6	Felipe Massa	98

[shalon]

yeah massa has been underperforming since he got beat to title by hamilton as for webber if i was redbull i would have gave algasuri a shot and that would allow riciardo in to toro rosso red bull have got too many drivers tied up for the seats they have

[AndrewW-G]

FourWheelDrift said:

AndrewW-G said:

This again

Given his position within Ferrari and the relative pace of the car he is driving, he is the number 6 driver on the grid (team number two in the third fastest car) and is currently 6th in the championship, where else do people expect him to be?

If he really was as bad as people think, why has there been a certain McLaren stuck behind him in many of the races this season

Who has more than twice his points tally. This is the tail of the tape and what people will look at in years to come.

1	Sebastian Vettel	374
2	Jenson Button	240
3	Fernando Alonso	227
4	Mark Webber	221
5	Lewis Hamilton	202
6	Felipe Massa	98

Yes it is . . . 6th ranked driver on the grid, in 6th place

[DrTre]

AndrewW-G said:

Yes it is . . . 6th ranked driver on the grid, in 6th place

Can't argue with what you say, but would not prefer to see someone else in the seat? Do you think there are any others who could punch above their perceived weight?

[AndrewW-G]

DrTre said:

AndrewW-G said:

Yes it is . . . 6th ranked driver on the grid, in 6th place

Can't argue with what you say, but would not prefer to see someone else in the seat? Do you think there are any others who could punch above their perceived weight?

Absolutely, I'd like to see the second Ferrari seat taken by somebody younger and with more get up and go than Felipe has now, I also think that the number two seats at Red Bull and McLaren would also benefit from young talent being given a chance to work with and push the teams number one drivers, as the expectations for both the RedBull and McLaren number two drivers exceeds the expectations of Felipe, yet they are both being trounced by their team mates, in identical cars.

Maybe Felipes replacement for next year will be just that

IMHO it also shows that the relative lack of testing and with it the inability to try out younger drivers, may be hurting F1 more than its helping. Can you imagine some of the fun from left field driver choices that would come from allowing the teams to test at none championship tracks, with anybody apart from their nominated championship drivers!

[Steamer]

It's sad to see, lots of bad luck, but just as much bad luck of his own making.

Big fan of his since the sauber days. But you just know if he comes under any kind of attack he will fold like a pack of cars or have contact.

[Nick3point2]

AndrewW-G said:

Yes it is . . . 6th ranked driver on the grid, in 6th place

Yes, you're right, but he is a world away from 5th and not too far from 7th, and a world away from his team mate, exactly the same as he was last year. Any half decent driver in a race winning car would be a lot closer to the front 'pack', considering his team mate is in third at the moment challenging for 2nd over all.

[AndrewW-G]

Nick3point2 said:

AndrewW-G said:

Yes it is . . . 6th ranked driver on the grid, in 6th place

Yes, you're right, but he is a world away from 5th and not too far from 7th, and a world away from his team mate, exactly the same as he was last year. Any half decent driver in a race winning car would be a lot closer to the front 'pack', considering his team mate is in third at the moment challenging for 2nd over all.

I know that there are lies, damn lies and then statistics, but the stats are interesting.

Felipe is 129 points off Fernando

Mark is 153 off Sebastian

Felipe has retired 3 times to Fernando's once

Mark has retired once to Sebastian's 0 retirements

As per my other post, maybe it’s time that all 3 top teams shuffled their number two drivers from this year, for new talent, capable of taking the fight to Sebastian, Jenson and Fernando

[Caractacus]

Yep, time for the wee chipmunk to hop off somewhere else.

Mind you, there are also a couple of others that should do the same...it is time for MS and RB to shuffle along and vacate their seats for some new blood to come into the sport. Oh, and Trulli!

[Nick3point2]

AndrewW-G said:

Absolutely, I'd like to see the second Ferrari seat taken by somebody younger and with more get up and go than Felipe has now, I also think that the number two seats at Red Bull and McLaren would also benefit from young talent being given a chance to work with and push the teams number one drivers, as the expectations for both the RedBull and McLaren number two drivers exceeds the expectations of Felipe, yet they are both being trounced by their team mates, in identical cars.

Maybe Felipes replacement for next year will be just that

IMHO it also shows that the relative lack of testing and with it the inability to try out younger drivers, may be hurting F1 more than its helping. Can you imagine some of the fun from left field driver choices that would come from allowing the teams to test at none championship tracks, with anybody apart from their nominated championship drivers!

Technically, Hamilton is number 1 and button number 2. Otherwise, I almost agree. Hamilton has lost his edge, and psychologically is not up to the job. He looks an absolute shadow of his former self and right now I can't see him going onto any more success than a win or two each year. But you cannot fault him on raw pace. He consistently out qualifies his team mate and I think there is something to claw back and make into a much better driver again.

Mark also needs to go. He has had a great run in F1 and did really well last year but he doesn't deserve a seat at with double Championship winners alongside a double WDC. I'd like to see Nico Rosberg move to Red Bull, but then I'd miss the rivalry he has with Schumi!