991 Guards Red & Cayman R Vid
Discussion
Liking the sound of the 991 on the down-shifts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
Carl_Docklands said:
Liking the sound of the 991 on the down-shifts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
Must be a manual gearbox to be able to double-blip like that? Sounds bl**dy marvellous!http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
One of the reasons I hate PDK is it totally precludes being able to do that.... performance, yes; passion, exuberance and fun, no.
Ian_UK1 said:
Carl_Docklands said:
Liking the sound of the 991 on the down-shifts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
Must be a manual gearbox to be able to double-blip like that? Sounds bl**dy marvellous!http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
One of the reasons I hate PDK is it totally precludes being able to do that.... performance, yes; passion, exuberance and fun, no.
But PDK does enable you to keep both hands on the steering wheel, which can be pretty handy 
Plus Launch Control, Sport , Sport Plus, better economy, faster acceleration (due to reduced shift times), reduced road tax cost (?) ... quieter cruising in 7th ...
The perfect answer for those who already know they can Heel and Toe ??
Seriously, I reckon PDK is worth an extra 10% in power, --- a shame it weighs an extra 25 KG's but -- you can't have everything.
Until the new PDK arrives ..
Plus Launch Control, Sport , Sport Plus, better economy, faster acceleration (due to reduced shift times), reduced road tax cost (?) ... quieter cruising in 7th ...
The perfect answer for those who already know they can Heel and Toe ??
Seriously, I reckon PDK is worth an extra 10% in power, --- a shame it weighs an extra 25 KG's but -- you can't have everything.
Until the new PDK arrives ..
ChrisW. said:
Plus Launch Control, Sport , Sport Plus, better economy, faster acceleration (due to reduced shift times), reduced road tax cost (?) ... quieter cruising in 7th ...
Launch Control - Does anyone really use it other than the once or twice to see what it does?
Several magazines got 0-60 times just as quick with a manual!
Sport/Sport Plus -
With a manual, you get to decide when to change gear all the time!
The over-sensitive throttle mapping is no benefit with a manual - just push the pedal a little further.
Better Economy -
Wonder what effect lugging the extra weight around has - in the real world?
Faster Acceleration -
Or maybe slower acceleration due to extra weight?
Lower top speed due to sub-optimal gearing
Reduced Road Tax -
Nope, I pay the full 'How Dare You Own a Nice Car' socialist tax on my '7S.2 PDK
Quieter Cruising in 7th -
AKA forever hunting up and down the 'box because the engine hasn't got enough torque to accelerate the car in 7th!
Involvement -
Done to death several times before, but you can't blip the throttle and behave like a 3-yr old child in a PDK. No fun whatsoever!
Just my light-hearted counterpoint (together with some possible truths). One serious point though - accelerating turning and braking an extra 25kg that is right at the back of the car where it does the most harm has got to incur a performance penalty somewhere, however marginal. It may be that it's only visible if you're at the level of a pro driver. Have a look at the results Needell and Plato achieved on 5th Gear. They always seemed to get better lap times in manual Pork than PDK.
From the videos looks like the Cayman R is struggling in the corners against the new 911 or certainly seems much more of a handful, though at the same time it looks user induced oversteer.
Still 911 looked very relaxed and easy in comparison, is the new 911 maybe getting to easy for its own good? Definetely need a GT3 varient to come along.
Still 911 looked very relaxed and easy in comparison, is the new 911 maybe getting to easy for its own good? Definetely need a GT3 varient to come along.
Had DSG in my VW - very very very impressive system, and at 7/10s it was superb - effortless, quick, lovely throttle blip on every downshift. In traffic it was superb too - really really comfortable and easy to use (if you remember to keep an eye on the gearbox oil temp). But when I was out for a thrash I really think that DSG spoilt an otherwise brilliant car... Would it be technically possible to fit paddles, PDK AND a normal manual box? That's the option I'd tick if it existed.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The PDK gear change is as good if not better than the best heel and toe, and there are times when extra attention to the road and the real time dynamics of the car will pay far bigger dividends than overloading my inbuilt processor with mechanical stuff that I can already do more than well enough
You are free to please yourself, I do ....
Ian_UK1 said:
Launch Control -
Does anyone really use it other than the once or twice to see what it does?
Several magazines got 0-60 times just as quick with a manual!
Sport/Sport Plus -
With a manual, you get to decide when to change gear all the time!
The over-sensitive throttle mapping is no benefit with a manual - just push the pedal a little further.
Better Economy -
Wonder what effect lugging the extra weight around has - in the real world?
Faster Acceleration -
Or maybe slower acceleration due to extra weight?
Lower top speed due to sub-optimal gearing
Reduced Road Tax -
Nope, I pay the full 'How Dare You Own a Nice Car' socialist tax on my '7S.2 PDK
Quieter Cruising in 7th -
AKA forever hunting up and down the 'box because the engine hasn't got enough torque to accelerate the car in 7th!
Involvement -
Done to death several times before, but you can't blip the throttle and behave like a 3-yr old child in a PDK. No fun whatsoever!
Just my light-hearted counterpoint (together with some possible truths). One serious point though - accelerating turning and braking an extra 25kg that is right at the back of the car where it does the most harm has got to incur a performance penalty somewhere, however marginal. It may be that it's only visible if you're at the level of a pro driver. Have a look at the results Needell and Plato achieved on 5th Gear. They always seemed to get better lap times in manual Pork than PDK.
In reply to the weight distribution question, the most vulnerable state for a 911 is with high lateral g and the need to lift off the throttle. A Cayman, even with PDK which is an extra 25KG at the back, is much less vulnerable in this condition. In fact, the power can be applied much earlier in the corner and the car therefore steered on the throttle far more easily from the start of the corner, in fact as soon as the front end is turned in ...Does anyone really use it other than the once or twice to see what it does?
Several magazines got 0-60 times just as quick with a manual!
Sport/Sport Plus -
With a manual, you get to decide when to change gear all the time!
The over-sensitive throttle mapping is no benefit with a manual - just push the pedal a little further.
Better Economy -
Wonder what effect lugging the extra weight around has - in the real world?
Faster Acceleration -
Or maybe slower acceleration due to extra weight?
Lower top speed due to sub-optimal gearing
Reduced Road Tax -
Nope, I pay the full 'How Dare You Own a Nice Car' socialist tax on my '7S.2 PDK
Quieter Cruising in 7th -
AKA forever hunting up and down the 'box because the engine hasn't got enough torque to accelerate the car in 7th!
Involvement -
Done to death several times before, but you can't blip the throttle and behave like a 3-yr old child in a PDK. No fun whatsoever!
Just my light-hearted counterpoint (together with some possible truths). One serious point though - accelerating turning and braking an extra 25kg that is right at the back of the car where it does the most harm has got to incur a performance penalty somewhere, however marginal. It may be that it's only visible if you're at the level of a pro driver. Have a look at the results Needell and Plato achieved on 5th Gear. They always seemed to get better lap times in manual Pork than PDK.
In the wet, it is astonishing to discover the true balance of the car ... by comparison to machinery which in theory should be significantly faster ... but which has 911 weight distribution.
This is why the 991 though longer has reduced rear weight bias, a trend which I am sure will be maintained.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Why on earth is H & T "critical" to real involvement ?I reckon I'm pretty decent at H & T, yet I thought my M3 CSL was great fun and very involving to drive !
In fact on my blast up and down the Turini I really didn't miss having to "wobble some stick between the seats" at all.
As Chris W says, the SMG 'box left me free to enjoy driving the car as quickly as possible without the bother of having to match revs and roadspeed.
With the SMG box speed cranked up to the max, Sport mode engaged and the TC backed off, the car was an absoloute hoot to drive.
Once the engine and gearbox ECUs had adapted to the thrashing they were being asked to manage, the multiple downshifts were accompanied by superbly matched (and noisy
)multiple blips the likes of which I'd have struggled to match. The fact that the car did this for you also allowed you to brake later than a manual 'box would have allowed.All this baloney about driver involvement is just that. If you want "driver involvement" lets go back to drum brakes, non synchro 'boxes, vacumn operated wipers and leaf sprung live rear axles, and while you're at it lets ditch fuel injection, electronic ignition, pheumatic tyres and hydraulic dampers . . . .
Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 5th November 07:49
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Before I bought my PDK-equipped GTS I'd have agreed with you. Now I've tried it I'm not so sure. One of the reasons I swapped over was that my H&T is not bad and there's only so many rev-matched downshifts you can make before the thrill subsides. PDK allows me to relax more on the daily commute, and attack harder on the back road hoon. Isn't that dual character what the 911 is all about? Not everyone can live with a GT3 in traffic. Two hands on the wheel at all times, instant shifts with paddles when I want them. What's not to like.I don't like (and always overide) the computer choosing when to shift except when I leave it in Eco mode in traffic for which it is well designed. "On it" if you trail brake, the computer governed shift down can occur a fraction late and leave you momentarily torque-free just as you start to power out of the bend. Better to shift down manually with engine braking still on the straight and then slingshot out of the bend under steadily increasing power.
And in manual mode PDK has never ever overridden my inputs so I feel in control. While my left knee enjoys the rest after too many skiing and snowboarding accidents.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I understand entirely were you are coming from.I normally buy old cars -- Porsches. I love their simplicity, the fact that it's me in control --- though I did miss my ABS at Curbrough last Sunday (it stopped working
)That was the reason why I decided to give myself a chance to evaluate the new technologies first hand, and the reason why my Cayman R had to be PDK -- after evaluating at Silverstone.
Give it a try sometime, it's your choice for your car and if you don't want it, you don't have to have it.
Tho' I understand the latest Ferrari 456 is not available as a manual ?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Bu you said earlier - H & T is better..........Because it gies you control over the transmission rather than handing that control over to computer actuators.Surely then an F1 car may well be faster if the driver had more input and control over the transmission?
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