Elise or Caterham?
Discussion
I am currently thinking about either of the above (or a VX220 maybe) as a 2nd car. The appeal of the Caterham is the cost (8k to 12k) and very low depreciation as well as handling etc. However if I am honest I think that I would rather have an Elise for 10k to 12k (but my head suggests that the Caterham would be far cheaper to run and probably be quicker)
I would plan on using the car most days as my commute is through the Peak district (unless it is nasty weather).
So I guess that my question is about the ownership and reliability of either. I don't want to spend wads of cash looking after the car, nor do I want to keep carting the car down to the garage or fiddling with it myself.
I realise that this may all be a tall order from either of these cars and that it might all be wishful thinking....
Oh, and I have driven an S2, but not an S1 or a Caterham yet (where the hell do you test drive a Caterham?).
Thanks
Tim
I would plan on using the car most days as my commute is through the Peak district (unless it is nasty weather).
So I guess that my question is about the ownership and reliability of either. I don't want to spend wads of cash looking after the car, nor do I want to keep carting the car down to the garage or fiddling with it myself.
I realise that this may all be a tall order from either of these cars and that it might all be wishful thinking....
Oh, and I have driven an S2, but not an S1 or a Caterham yet (where the hell do you test drive a Caterham?).
Thanks
Tim
if youve never driven a Caterham it would be a good idea first...they are very small inside (even compared to an Elise) and Im not sure I would want to commute in one even if it had weather gear.
Get a nice S1 Elise - you will be able to use it more regardless of weather..and even carry stuff in the boot.
Get a nice S1 Elise - you will be able to use it more regardless of weather..and even carry stuff in the boot.
Tim
As a daily drive the Elise is fine. I haven't lived with a Caterham, but went through the process last month of deciding whether or not to chop the S2 in against a Superlight. They are very different in terms of accommodation, getting back into the Elise after the S/light was similar to stepping into a 5 star hotel
Personally I would go for the Elise in terms of comfort and a degree of practicallity. As for costs, the onle thing I looked at was servicing, and there was very little between them. Haven't owned either an S1 or a 7, so again cannot comment on the various consumables for them.
As a daily drive the Elise is fine. I haven't lived with a Caterham, but went through the process last month of deciding whether or not to chop the S2 in against a Superlight. They are very different in terms of accommodation, getting back into the Elise after the S/light was similar to stepping into a 5 star hotel
Personally I would go for the Elise in terms of comfort and a degree of practicallity. As for costs, the onle thing I looked at was servicing, and there was very little between them. Haven't owned either an S1 or a 7, so again cannot comment on the various consumables for them.
Insurance and depreciation seem to be the main costs on an Elise compared to a basic Caterham. I know that the Elise is more 'spacious' inside as I have sat in a Seven, but I am not too lardy and could put up with it for a 20 minute commute and some longer trips. The benefit of the Elise is that there is a local dealer in Sheffield so test drives and warranties should be easy to sort.
Not being able to decide is at least saving me a load of money, 'cos I'm not buying either at the moment whilst I can't decide. I'll ask the same question on Blatchat too so that I get answers biased that other way as well!
Tim
Not being able to decide is at least saving me a load of money, 'cos I'm not buying either at the moment whilst I can't decide. I'll ask the same question on Blatchat too so that I get answers biased that other way as well!
Tim
I owned a 1999 Mk 111s for 4 months and used it as my daily drive on a 60-mile round commute. The car was fantastic, quick, reliable, practical and handled beautifully, but.................... it was not quite enough.
I swapped the car for a 7 superlight because I wanted something rawer. The lotus was fine on long journeys and the daily commute, but the Caterham really is too much unless the weather is good. It is also a pig to drive slowly, get in and out of (much worse than an Elise), but for all it's foibles it is in a different league to drive. Perhaps not as subtle or fluid as a well-sorted Elise, but quicker, more exhilarating, more brutal - in short every journey is an experience. I guess that is the question you have to ask yourself, do you want that experience every time you go out?
For me though, it is the only car I have ever owned that I could never see myself getting rid of.
Get along to a local Caterham club meet and many of the owners would be more than happy to take you out for a spin.
Whichever you choose, you will not be disappointed - both are amazing cars. Good luck with the search.
I swapped the car for a 7 superlight because I wanted something rawer. The lotus was fine on long journeys and the daily commute, but the Caterham really is too much unless the weather is good. It is also a pig to drive slowly, get in and out of (much worse than an Elise), but for all it's foibles it is in a different league to drive. Perhaps not as subtle or fluid as a well-sorted Elise, but quicker, more exhilarating, more brutal - in short every journey is an experience. I guess that is the question you have to ask yourself, do you want that experience every time you go out?
For me though, it is the only car I have ever owned that I could never see myself getting rid of.
Get along to a local Caterham club meet and many of the owners would be more than happy to take you out for a spin.
Whichever you choose, you will not be disappointed - both are amazing cars. Good luck with the search.
I would have to agree with the above.
A seven could only really be considered as a second car. Which it is to me because my S2 elise is my everyday car. As for performance then my Westfield monsters the elise, but using all the performance on the road is just plan mad! This is where the elise wins, its the best compromise for me between performance and fun. It could just do with some power oversteer!
Which ever you buy you won't regret.
All I'll say is that I will never sell the seven, but the elise will go within a year or so.
>> Edited by swilding on Monday 21st June 20:45
A seven could only really be considered as a second car. Which it is to me because my S2 elise is my everyday car. As for performance then my Westfield monsters the elise, but using all the performance on the road is just plan mad! This is where the elise wins, its the best compromise for me between performance and fun. It could just do with some power oversteer!
Which ever you buy you won't regret.
All I'll say is that I will never sell the seven, but the elise will go within a year or so.
>> Edited by swilding on Monday 21st June 20:45
TLR (you're not a relation of Pedro's are you?)
I've been lucky enough to own 2 se7ens and 2 elises.
The first was a Superlight Executive (what Caterham call the 7 with full gear) and I used that for 13k miles from one August to the following May... Not a great car but I was 25 and loved every minute.
The next was a part-ex against a Z3M roadster, with a Bell & Colvill 140 conversion; nice car but I scared myself more in that than anything I've ever had. Something wasn't right with that one.
Last June I got a perfect Superlight: no paint, no doors, no windscreen. It was a beautiful trackday car and I used it for work occasionally. Just brilliant but I got bored of it gathering dust in the garage.
I swapped that with Mr Gurr (above) for his 111s and I still have that.
For me, the Elise is clearly more usable everyday; it has things like doors and winding windows that are a help in this regard. As a consequence, Mrs Toad will sit in it whereas using the se7en required negotiation.
That said, I test drove a 73 RS replica on Friday and I think that would have required as much commitment as the 7 to use everyday. The point is, if you're hard enough, you'll be able to use the 7.
That said, 7s are a superbly developed classic built to provide maximum smiles per mile and irritate GT3s on track days. Elises are a superlative modern design designed to provide maximum smiles per mile for a given degree of usability.
For me, the Elsie wins as an everyday car. I would get a 111s though as the standard doesn't have enough grunt for me day to day. As Alex says, the Elise is certainly a pure enough car to stand comparison with the 7; I take the long way to work pretty much every day now (with apologies to those on the Welsh Lane).
Neither is especially cheap to run but buy a good one and you'll not regret it. Best advice is to get yourself down to a dealers (milward motors in gloucester are top blokes as regards 7s), go to a couple of club meets and get either asap.
Hope that helps - keep firing out questions.
cheers now
Toad
ps. Alex - glad to hear the XTC still has 4 wheels on!
I've been lucky enough to own 2 se7ens and 2 elises.
The first was a Superlight Executive (what Caterham call the 7 with full gear) and I used that for 13k miles from one August to the following May... Not a great car but I was 25 and loved every minute.
The next was a part-ex against a Z3M roadster, with a Bell & Colvill 140 conversion; nice car but I scared myself more in that than anything I've ever had. Something wasn't right with that one.
Last June I got a perfect Superlight: no paint, no doors, no windscreen. It was a beautiful trackday car and I used it for work occasionally. Just brilliant but I got bored of it gathering dust in the garage.
I swapped that with Mr Gurr (above) for his 111s and I still have that.
For me, the Elise is clearly more usable everyday; it has things like doors and winding windows that are a help in this regard. As a consequence, Mrs Toad will sit in it whereas using the se7en required negotiation.
That said, I test drove a 73 RS replica on Friday and I think that would have required as much commitment as the 7 to use everyday. The point is, if you're hard enough, you'll be able to use the 7.
That said, 7s are a superbly developed classic built to provide maximum smiles per mile and irritate GT3s on track days. Elises are a superlative modern design designed to provide maximum smiles per mile for a given degree of usability.
For me, the Elsie wins as an everyday car. I would get a 111s though as the standard doesn't have enough grunt for me day to day. As Alex says, the Elise is certainly a pure enough car to stand comparison with the 7; I take the long way to work pretty much every day now (with apologies to those on the Welsh Lane).
Neither is especially cheap to run but buy a good one and you'll not regret it. Best advice is to get yourself down to a dealers (milward motors in gloucester are top blokes as regards 7s), go to a couple of club meets and get either asap.
Hope that helps - keep firing out questions.
cheers now
Toad
ps. Alex - glad to hear the XTC still has 4 wheels on!
Thanks for the replies, I will have to get out there and get some test drives. I guess what I am after is a cross between the power of my old Impreza and the fun of my wifes MX5 (and the reliability of both).
I currently have an A6 estate which I will probably keep (and is a good car for some things) but it just seems such a shame to waste 20 miles of B roads a day on the Audi (at 20mpg).
I shall enjoy the decision making!
Thanks
Tim
I currently have an A6 estate which I will probably keep (and is a good car for some things) but it just seems such a shame to waste 20 miles of B roads a day on the Audi (at 20mpg).
I shall enjoy the decision making!
Thanks
Tim
Tim,
I recently ordered a Caterham following a fling down at their Caterham sales outlet and can only echo CAR magazine's sentiments from a few issues back (their specific reference being the R400), something like "once you've driven one of these everything else feels clumbsy."
You get a real 'Biggles' sense of occasion just esconsing within that preposterous cockpit and the tactile operation of each and every major control from the Joe 90 indicator flick-switch to the inevitable caress of impish anvil as roundabout after roundabout is exhileratingly pummelled, is about the finest four-wheeled automotive thrill I can recall, period.
Bar the extreme uber Ninja aka the Radical SR3, Palmersport Jag thing, et al, nothing yet devised surely allows road-based hoonage to this degree?
Did I mention the ak-ak bren gun strapped to the side of the body?
The speed and chuck/pointability of the very best Porsche/Lotus creations with soundtrack of finest, decatted Cerbera proportions, combined with the joys of something that allows full commune with Albion's finer bugs - all suffuses to provide pretty much the ultimate driving proposition.
Every PHer should have one, as law; I'm just sorry I've been a transgressor thus far...
I recently ordered a Caterham following a fling down at their Caterham sales outlet and can only echo CAR magazine's sentiments from a few issues back (their specific reference being the R400), something like "once you've driven one of these everything else feels clumbsy."
You get a real 'Biggles' sense of occasion just esconsing within that preposterous cockpit and the tactile operation of each and every major control from the Joe 90 indicator flick-switch to the inevitable caress of impish anvil as roundabout after roundabout is exhileratingly pummelled, is about the finest four-wheeled automotive thrill I can recall, period.
Bar the extreme uber Ninja aka the Radical SR3, Palmersport Jag thing, et al, nothing yet devised surely allows road-based hoonage to this degree?
Did I mention the ak-ak bren gun strapped to the side of the body?
The speed and chuck/pointability of the very best Porsche/Lotus creations with soundtrack of finest, decatted Cerbera proportions, combined with the joys of something that allows full commune with Albion's finer bugs - all suffuses to provide pretty much the ultimate driving proposition.
Every PHer should have one, as law; I'm just sorry I've been a transgressor thus far...
Yeah I'd rather have an atom as well, althought its at least as silly as a caterham.
For agility you aren't going to beat these kinds of cars but you'd have to be extremely kean to want to drive one everyday.
I've driven a caterham on the road briefly, and on a PH caterham day, and honestly couldn't justify one. They are too compromised for the road, and there are better things for the track.
DanH said:
...you'd have to be extremely keen to want to drive one everyday.
I've driven a caterham on the road briefly, and on a PH caterham day, and honestly couldn't justify one. They are too compromised for the road, and there are better things for the track.
With respect Dan, I fail to see how they are too compromised for the road, unless you are a die hard Citroen CX Prestige connoisseur (
sorry). Surely the whole point is to achieve an automotive 'hit?' I think Peter Tomalin's stint in EVO mag's long term R400 kind of summed up my approach to this baby - it has a rarely achieved viscerality by any standards and as I've said, a feeling of specialness simply numbed out of just about any contemporary, non-track only alternative.
I'm sure Jeremy C would be far better qualified to comment than I on your comments about there being better things for the track but surely their legendary repute thereupon is not founded on balderdash & idle pub banter?
Having said that, 'er indoors thinks I am mad and is religously taking the p1ss, telling me I'll need some goggles for the full Dick van Dyke effect and why didn't I engage my brain and go for a sensibly trousered Elise?
She's undoubtedly got a point but then again, I have passengered in the aforementioned Jeremy C's Superlight R...and life will never be quite the same...
(Decided against the Atom due to an aversion against rancid tomato and less than ripe cabbage: some of our locals would undoubtedly take umbrage at the outrageousness of it's exoskeletal shockingness and so conservativeness seems like the better part of enthusiasm.)
Toodles.
derestrictor said:
...
(Decided against the Atom due to an aversion against rancid tomato and less than ripe cabbage: some of our locals would undoubtedly take umbrage at the outrageousness of it's exoskeletal shockingness and so conservativeness seems like the better part of enthusiasm.)
...
Toodles.
Aar, so the Atom is a bit err Radical looking! Maybe even nearly possibly as radical as an actual Radical?
. derestrictor said:
With respect Dan, I fail to see how they are too compromised for the road, unless you are a die hard Citroen CX Prestige connoisseur (
When you are running it as your only car, perhaps, you might have the right to say that. Meanwhile I notice you hide behind your two nazi war wagons, presumably for when the weather turns inclement or you might have a load to transport.
derestrictor said:
Surely the whole point is to achieve an automotive 'hit?' I think Peter Tomalin's stint in EVO mag's long term R400 kind of summed up my approach to this baby - it has a rarely achieved viscerality by any standards and as I've said, a feeling of specialness simply numbed out of just about any contemporary, non-track only alternative.
Have you been on a bike? Caterhams are pointless. Not only that they are outdated, unsafe and overly compromised vehicles for the road. They only seem so good because they weigh so little and modern cars can't. The chassis and setup is laughable. Outboard dampers? Sir, I laugh in your general direction.
derestrictor said:
I'm sure Jeremy C would be far better qualified to comment than I on your comments about there being better things for the track but surely their legendary repute thereupon is not founded on balderdash & idle pub banter?
Sure it is, its founded on a lot of beardy folk in a self conglaturary fan club all telling each other how terribly clever they are. You can spend 10k on a race car and have a lot more fun on track.
derestrictor said:
Having said that, 'er indoors thinks I am mad and is religously taking the p1ss, telling me I'll need some goggles for the full Dick van Dyke effect and why didn't I engage my brain and go for a sensibly trousered Elise?
Ah a voice of reason!
derestrictor said:
(Decided against the Atom due to an aversion against rancid tomato and less than ripe cabbage: some of our locals would undoubtedly take umbrage at the outrageousness of it's exoskeletal shockingness and so conservativeness seems like the better part of enthusiasm.)
I can think of valid reasons to avoid the atom, but surely that isn't one of them? Are you sure its not your preference for biggles hats and unkempt beards that influences you
(p.s. please note all, I'm not arguing for the Elise here, merely against that outdated nail that caterham keep pedaling. Resting on their laurels? I doubt theirs anything left under their lazy arses than compost.)
(p.p.s. I don't like Caterhams)
>> Edited by DanH on Thursday 24th June 02:00
Unfortunately Dan, I'm amazed by the tone of your response.
Ok, it's no Volvo but then such safety concerns are hardly arguments supported by references to bikes.
It is a basic formula since when, 1959? Whilst it's hardly benefitted from the evolutionary, uber technological strides of another near contemporary icon, the 911, it is fundamentally such an effective, purist's concept that as surrounding suspension and tyre technologies have progressed, it too has benefitted, massively.
But then along with the legions of eminently more qualified-than-yours truly thrill-seekers, I must have got it all wrong: the fact that it was one of the best off-track vehicles I've ever driven/been driven in with quite the most astounding, lithe dynamics, must have been a wild figment of my admittedly bewildered imagination.
Right, I'll go and hide in something Bavarian, I'm obviously a very naughty boy who mustn't do it again.
Good day.
Ok, it's no Volvo but then such safety concerns are hardly arguments supported by references to bikes.
It is a basic formula since when, 1959? Whilst it's hardly benefitted from the evolutionary, uber technological strides of another near contemporary icon, the 911, it is fundamentally such an effective, purist's concept that as surrounding suspension and tyre technologies have progressed, it too has benefitted, massively.
But then along with the legions of eminently more qualified-than-yours truly thrill-seekers, I must have got it all wrong: the fact that it was one of the best off-track vehicles I've ever driven/been driven in with quite the most astounding, lithe dynamics, must have been a wild figment of my admittedly bewildered imagination.
Right, I'll go and hide in something Bavarian, I'm obviously a very naughty boy who mustn't do it again.
Good day.
derestrictor said:
Unfortunately Dan, I'm amazed by the tone of your response.
Ok, it's no Volvo but then such safety concerns are hardly arguments supported by references to bikes.
It is a basic formula since when, 1959? Whilst it's hardly benefitted from the evolutionary, uber technological strides of another near contemporary icon, the 911, it is fundamentally such an effective, purist's concept that as surrounding suspension and tyre technologies have progressed, it too has benefitted, massively.
But then along with the legions of eminently more qualified-than-yours truly thrill-seekers, I must have got it all wrong: the fact that it was one of the best off-track vehicles I've ever driven/been driven in with quite the most astounding, lithe dynamics, must have been a wild figment of my admittedly bewildered imagination.
Right, I'll go and hide in something Bavarian, I'm obviously a very naughty boy who mustn't do it again.
Good day.
Oops, came back from the pub and wrote that. Came on a bit strong - Sorry!
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