Am I Mad? Brera S
Discussion
OK, so for starters I'm ordinarily German in my taste for a new car. BMW/Alpina/Porsche classifieds get hammered. however over the weekend I saw a Brera and was reminded how great I think they look.
A bit of research and a few classified searches and I'm picking up on Brera S's with the 2.2 in my semi-imaginery budget.
So, bearing in mind I'm asking the Alfa Forum, what are these cars actually like? Have Prodrive sufficiently tweaked the handling to make the car a decent steer? What is the reliability like (its a stereotype I know but I literally know nothing about these cars) and how ruinous is the maintenance?
I actually rang Mangoletsi in Cheshire to arrange a test drive on Saturday so have already been frustrating in the fact a large main dealer didn't even answer the phone. However, the nearest Prodrive model to me is actually at a small independent in Derby so I'm hoping for improved service if I talk myself into it.
Please, no answers like "you don't buy an Alfa for reliability, you buy it because you want an Alfa" (like the last time I asked a question on here), I don't find them especially useful. Genuine ownership experience please PH
A bit of research and a few classified searches and I'm picking up on Brera S's with the 2.2 in my semi-imaginery budget.
So, bearing in mind I'm asking the Alfa Forum, what are these cars actually like? Have Prodrive sufficiently tweaked the handling to make the car a decent steer? What is the reliability like (its a stereotype I know but I literally know nothing about these cars) and how ruinous is the maintenance?
I actually rang Mangoletsi in Cheshire to arrange a test drive on Saturday so have already been frustrating in the fact a large main dealer didn't even answer the phone. However, the nearest Prodrive model to me is actually at a small independent in Derby so I'm hoping for improved service if I talk myself into it.
Please, no answers like "you don't buy an Alfa for reliability, you buy it because you want an Alfa" (like the last time I asked a question on here), I don't find them especially useful. Genuine ownership experience please PH
We've had our 2.4 Brera since 08 (its a 07 car) love it but:
Averages 35 mpg.
Eats front tyres (14000)
Eats brake pads.
Some have problems with the steering rack wear.
Goes well and looks good, don't go for red (stone chips easily.
Rear vision is poor and the rear seats are a joke.
Wouldn't change it though...
Averages 35 mpg.
Eats front tyres (14000)
Eats brake pads.
Some have problems with the steering rack wear.
Goes well and looks good, don't go for red (stone chips easily.
Rear vision is poor and the rear seats are a joke.
Wouldn't change it though...
I had a 2.2 Brera S for about 2 years, and really liked it. Yes the engine is a bit weedy in a car so heavy, and yes the fuel economy was crap (think mid twenties if driving like a nun) and it used to get through tyres rather swiftly (although part of that might be living in Milton Keynes that always kills tyres).
However, despite the downsides, it was one of those cars that always gained admiring looks, the way an 'S' sits on the road looks so much better than a standard one, the big 19in wheels and the slightly lower suspension really set it apart.
Handling wise, yes the ride can get a bit crashy on really rutted roads as is always on the firm side of average, but when you get on a nice twisty road, you soon forget about that as it does come alive in your hands when pushing on.
When I was looking to purchase, I wasnt looking for an 'S' model specifically, but upon driving it back to back with a standard model, it just felt a lot more composed and more confidence inspiring, and really there was no going back.
Would I have another one? Yes, but it would probably be the V6, the difference in fuel economy is negligble and an extra 40 or so bhp would be welcome.
If buying a 2.2, then check it has had the timing chains replaced - a common problem with the 2.2 engine is stretching chains (mine had stretched and needed replacing at just 18,000 miles) - engine warning light staying on longer than it should (or permanently on) is probably the sign they are on their way out.
Also given tyres are 250 quid plus per corner (they are a slightly odd size so only really Pirelli make them (a couple of other firms have now started but all about the same price), factor the cost of a set of tyres into the purchase price if they are worn.
Oh and make sure if you buy one, you get the signed certifcate confirming build number ('S' was a limited edition of 500 split 1/3 2.2s and 2/3 V6s)
There were a few fake 'S' model about on the market, standard model made to look like an 'S', so make sure (with certificate ideally) that it is a genuine one rather than a tarted up standard one. Exhaust is a different shape and is stamped with Prodrive and I imagine v. expensive, so is rarely changed on the fake ones.
If you need anything else, just shout and I can see what I can remember (I sold mine for a 166 V6 at end of Feb)
However, despite the downsides, it was one of those cars that always gained admiring looks, the way an 'S' sits on the road looks so much better than a standard one, the big 19in wheels and the slightly lower suspension really set it apart.
Handling wise, yes the ride can get a bit crashy on really rutted roads as is always on the firm side of average, but when you get on a nice twisty road, you soon forget about that as it does come alive in your hands when pushing on.
When I was looking to purchase, I wasnt looking for an 'S' model specifically, but upon driving it back to back with a standard model, it just felt a lot more composed and more confidence inspiring, and really there was no going back.
Would I have another one? Yes, but it would probably be the V6, the difference in fuel economy is negligble and an extra 40 or so bhp would be welcome.
If buying a 2.2, then check it has had the timing chains replaced - a common problem with the 2.2 engine is stretching chains (mine had stretched and needed replacing at just 18,000 miles) - engine warning light staying on longer than it should (or permanently on) is probably the sign they are on their way out.
Also given tyres are 250 quid plus per corner (they are a slightly odd size so only really Pirelli make them (a couple of other firms have now started but all about the same price), factor the cost of a set of tyres into the purchase price if they are worn.
Oh and make sure if you buy one, you get the signed certifcate confirming build number ('S' was a limited edition of 500 split 1/3 2.2s and 2/3 V6s)
There were a few fake 'S' model about on the market, standard model made to look like an 'S', so make sure (with certificate ideally) that it is a genuine one rather than a tarted up standard one. Exhaust is a different shape and is stamped with Prodrive and I imagine v. expensive, so is rarely changed on the fake ones.
If you need anything else, just shout and I can see what I can remember (I sold mine for a 166 V6 at end of Feb)
Mr DG said:
stunning cars. My 3 year old 2.2s goes back to the finance company as its reached the end of it's PCP plan. if I'd have known you were after one it could have been yours for 12k, Black 29k miles, immaculate wheels and paint. It will no doubt end up on a dealers lot for 15 - 16k
Sorry Mr DG, even I didn't know I was after one until this week and I'm a sucker for a "deal" as well.Thanks Marky for all of that info. It was exactly what I was after. I need to go and see some don't I? Still annoyed at Mangoletsi NOT answering the phone though and they appear to have monopoly in the North.
Have either of you guys had any problems with yours?
Eviltad said:
Have either of you guys had any problems with yours?
I had a couple of problems with mine, one being the stretchy timing chains as mentioned previously - was fixed without question under warranty (about an 800 quid touch I think from what I remember of the copy invoice that was sent to the warranty adminstrators - mine had just tripped into 3rd year dealer warranty territory when they stretched).The other problem, although seemingly minor was hopefully not a sign of a stereotype Alfa electrical problem. Basically the interior light had a mind of its own, and chose its own timetable of when it wanted to work. Of course whenever at the dealer it worked perfectly, however when you needed it on a dark, cold, stormy night - nothing. Dealer (Motorvogue in Northampton) were great about it and tried many things, including tracing the wiring loom all the way through to see if any loose connections, but never really got to the bottom of it before I sold it.
One thing to say though is that my preception is that the "S" is better screwed together than the standard ones I have been in. Whether this is because they are stripped and rebuilt by Prodrive when being given the "S" treatment I dont know, but build quality was certainly up there with german stuff I have previously.
In terms of locating one, I sold mine to Veloces of London, who always seem to have a few "S" in stock.
In terms of audio, the standard system is a Blaupunkt unit, with single slot CD, and is a bugger to connect any ipod/mp3 player to. The official blaupunkt cable (about 8 quid) doesnt work but the official Alfa one (about 80 quid i think) does.....
I have the Loudlink SD card CD Changer emulator system in my 166 now and believe they do a version for the Brera, and that would be my favoured option if I had another Brera.
I have had my 2.2 S for 18 months/38k miles, my car has a modified induction which makes it sound very nice and a fueling tweak that supposidly gives it a bit more oomph but I have never driven a standard car so it is hard to tell.
I like the 2.2 engine apart from the hesitation, it is smooth, free revving and quick enough to be fun. One thing I have found is that you have to drive it hard quite regularly to maintain the performance, if you pootle for too long it becomes a bit gutless and sluggish.
I can get 32mpg on a run but average about 28mpg.
I had mine on the track and it was quicker in a straight line and round the corners than the Q4 V6 version.
The handling is very good, grip is remarkable in the dry and very good in the wet with very little under-steer, the ride is quite hard but acceptable and provided that the alignment is set at the correct S settings I can get about 20k miles out of the front tyres and about 30k from the rears. I find that it drives best with the traction control turned off as it can bog down a bit out of the corners with it on.
My car has just passed 70k miles and I have just had my first significant problem, it needed a new CV joint, so I would say that the reliability is pretty good.
The timing chain issue seems to mainly affect early cars, mine is on the original chain and is fine.
All in all I am very happy with the car, I love the looks inside and out and find it to be comfortable on the up to 4hrs a day I spend in it.
Try to get one with the leather dash if you can because it really lifts the interior but they are very rare on the 2.2 cars.
I like the 2.2 engine apart from the hesitation, it is smooth, free revving and quick enough to be fun. One thing I have found is that you have to drive it hard quite regularly to maintain the performance, if you pootle for too long it becomes a bit gutless and sluggish.
I can get 32mpg on a run but average about 28mpg.
I had mine on the track and it was quicker in a straight line and round the corners than the Q4 V6 version.
The handling is very good, grip is remarkable in the dry and very good in the wet with very little under-steer, the ride is quite hard but acceptable and provided that the alignment is set at the correct S settings I can get about 20k miles out of the front tyres and about 30k from the rears. I find that it drives best with the traction control turned off as it can bog down a bit out of the corners with it on.
My car has just passed 70k miles and I have just had my first significant problem, it needed a new CV joint, so I would say that the reliability is pretty good.
The timing chain issue seems to mainly affect early cars, mine is on the original chain and is fine.
All in all I am very happy with the car, I love the looks inside and out and find it to be comfortable on the up to 4hrs a day I spend in it.
Try to get one with the leather dash if you can because it really lifts the interior but they are very rare on the 2.2 cars.
A lex said:
Book figures:
V6 Q4 = 6.8
2.2 = 8.6
Itll need to be some fuelling tweak to buy you almost 2 secs on the 60 time.
The 0-60 time is not a good guide, the 2.2 needs an extra gear change to get to 60 which knocks back the figure and the 8.6 refers to the standard(heavier)2.2. The 2.2 S is about 300kg lighter, has far less transmission loss and has much shorter gearing compared to the Q4 V6, all that together makes a big difference to the real world acceleration. The V6, even the S version is much more nose heavy and does not handle as well as the 2.2.V6 Q4 = 6.8
2.2 = 8.6
Itll need to be some fuelling tweak to buy you almost 2 secs on the 60 time.
But regardless of that, I am just telling you how it was in my experience on the track.
Eviltad said:
So should I be looking at 2.2's and get a remap or just go for a 3.2 V6?
Depends what you want:-2wd V6 S:- is a bit quicker but one owner I know finds the very long gearing rather frustrating on twisty back-roads, more expensive to run, more expensive to buy, heavier, sounds nicer, handles less well, rides less well and has the leather dash as standard.
The 2.2 S :- suffers from hesitation(I believe that the Autodelta remap helps this), lighter, handles better, rides better, sounds a bit ho hum without the intake mod but very nice with it,is cheaper to run(tyres, fuel, road tax), cheaper to buy, doesn't have the leather dash as standard and is probably more fun down a twisty back-road.
I went for the 2.2(with the leather dash) because of the better handling, ride, fuel economy and lower price but I fully understand why some people would rather have the V6.
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