Should I/Shouldn't I? [E60 525d '55]
Discussion
I've been driving a few E60 touring models semi-seriously looking to buy (I want to identify the right engine for me).
I came across this today and fell for it:
It's got 97K on the clock so a high miler (currently driving a Volvo D5 with 127K) and although I'm not concerned by this would take guidance from any experience here.
Been offered a strong deal which made it difficult to walk away and think about it but I've done so and have found myself here...
So, what do I need:
- Motorway cruiser
- Comfort but style (yes it runs on R/Fs so maybe not the best comfort option when wrapped around 18" wheels attached to sport suspension)
- Punchy but economic - fine balance has led me to the pre-LCI 525d
- Bootspace
I'm keen to understand any experience of high mileage pre-LCI E60 diesels before moving toward taking the plunge on this one
I came across this today and fell for it:
It's got 97K on the clock so a high miler (currently driving a Volvo D5 with 127K) and although I'm not concerned by this would take guidance from any experience here.
Been offered a strong deal which made it difficult to walk away and think about it but I've done so and have found myself here...
So, what do I need:
- Motorway cruiser
- Comfort but style (yes it runs on R/Fs so maybe not the best comfort option when wrapped around 18" wheels attached to sport suspension)
- Punchy but economic - fine balance has led me to the pre-LCI 525d
- Bootspace
I'm keen to understand any experience of high mileage pre-LCI E60 diesels before moving toward taking the plunge on this one
Hi
That looks identical to mine and I love it.
The 525d is a nice motor, but it is a restricted 3L lump designed to reduce emissions and lower tax. Personally I'd feel a little cheated and just go for the 530D but if it suits your needs then go for it.
At that milage you may see the DPF come up for changing. They can go from 100k miles but if it's been a motorway cruiser all day some chap on here had a 535d with 250k miles on the original down to low soot conditions, ie motorway cruising. If it's been done then ideal.
Associated issues can be,
The self levelling rear suspension can fail if it hasn't had the upgraded braided pipe that feeds the compressor. The original design can split and suck clag into the air pump causing it to die.
If there is no mention of it being changed in the S/H then you can remove the rear O/S wheel, behind an inspection panel in the wheel arch will be the pipe and pump. A pain To Check but it's circa a 1k bill to replace the pipes and pump.
They can suffer with water ingress into the spare wheel well, normally easily fixed but check all the electronics stored in there. They can short out if water gets in. Check right at the bottom, under the polystyrene padding.
They occasionally suffer with Chaffed wiring by the opening rear window. It is DIY'able but symptoms of this are the rear window opening my itself or Minor electrical irritations at te back of the car such as number plate light failure.
Other than usual diesel and autobox mechanicals I think I've named the common issuses.
The interior of these cars isn't as good as the LCI but it's not far off. I drive a LCI 530d at work and have a pre 535d at home and there isn't a lot of difference.
Some describe the interiors as poor, some even go a little over the top in there vociferous negativity about it but in truth, it's perfectly fine and wears no quicker than my previous E39.
That looks identical to mine and I love it.
The 525d is a nice motor, but it is a restricted 3L lump designed to reduce emissions and lower tax. Personally I'd feel a little cheated and just go for the 530D but if it suits your needs then go for it.
At that milage you may see the DPF come up for changing. They can go from 100k miles but if it's been a motorway cruiser all day some chap on here had a 535d with 250k miles on the original down to low soot conditions, ie motorway cruising. If it's been done then ideal.
Associated issues can be,
The self levelling rear suspension can fail if it hasn't had the upgraded braided pipe that feeds the compressor. The original design can split and suck clag into the air pump causing it to die.
If there is no mention of it being changed in the S/H then you can remove the rear O/S wheel, behind an inspection panel in the wheel arch will be the pipe and pump. A pain To Check but it's circa a 1k bill to replace the pipes and pump.
They can suffer with water ingress into the spare wheel well, normally easily fixed but check all the electronics stored in there. They can short out if water gets in. Check right at the bottom, under the polystyrene padding.
They occasionally suffer with Chaffed wiring by the opening rear window. It is DIY'able but symptoms of this are the rear window opening my itself or Minor electrical irritations at te back of the car such as number plate light failure.
Other than usual diesel and autobox mechanicals I think I've named the common issuses.
The interior of these cars isn't as good as the LCI but it's not far off. I drive a LCI 530d at work and have a pre 535d at home and there isn't a lot of difference.
Some describe the interiors as poor, some even go a little over the top in there vociferous negativity about it but in truth, it's perfectly fine and wears no quicker than my previous E39.
Surely that is the earlier 2.5 litre engine??
Be careful if you want economy, these are very thirsty for the power you get.
The guy who bought my A6 avant off me did 200k miles in one from new over 3 years, so loads of motorway miles and he saw 34mpg average, round town it is mid 20's at best.
There have been a few posts recently regarding the pre lci diesels from new owners who have presumed that something is wrong because of the low MPG.
I had a 535d and that would see 20ish around town, 33 on a very steady run and averaged 25.9 over 12 months and 40k miles.
But the official figure for that car in SE guise with 225 tyres all round is only 25 urban and 34 combined, the wider tyres will drop that by a couple of mpg.
A good car, but you did mention economy.
Be careful if you want economy, these are very thirsty for the power you get.
The guy who bought my A6 avant off me did 200k miles in one from new over 3 years, so loads of motorway miles and he saw 34mpg average, round town it is mid 20's at best.
There have been a few posts recently regarding the pre lci diesels from new owners who have presumed that something is wrong because of the low MPG.
I had a 535d and that would see 20ish around town, 33 on a very steady run and averaged 25.9 over 12 months and 40k miles.
But the official figure for that car in SE guise with 225 tyres all round is only 25 urban and 34 combined, the wider tyres will drop that by a couple of mpg.
A good car, but you did mention economy.
gizlaroc said:
Surely that is the earlier 2.5 litre engine??
Be careful if you want economy, these are very thirsty for the power you get.
...
A good car, but you did mention economy.
Thanks Gizlaroc - fair point (yes, the pre-LCI 525 engine)Be careful if you want economy, these are very thirsty for the power you get.
...
A good car, but you did mention economy.
I'm getting ~50mg from my Volvo and know this is not going to be matched with a 5 series however I didn't realise the mpg was that low.
Will need to bear this in mind...
but Neil, you have a point
Neil.D said:
Economy is so boring.
daemon said:
eastsider said:
If you are prepared to expand on 'strong deal' with some specific numbers I think we'll be able to give you a better view.
+1In my experience of PH going into the figures will derail my question and get us all hooked on the detail of a 'strong deal'. I am avoiding that detail as it's not relevant to my question:
I'm looking for any experience/knowledge on a FSH 6 year old higher mileage E60 525d's (e.g. Neil.D's first post above) and ultimately, help me decide whether a 97K car is an option with a view to driving 10K a year - for approx 4-6 years before moving on?
EDIT: THIS WAS MY 600th POST!!
Edit2: What a rubbish 600th post...
Edited by kieranjholland on Saturday 5th November 22:32
Edited by kieranjholland on Saturday 5th November 22:34
Fair enough if you don't want to divulge, I could probably find it in 5 mins on autotrader if I could be bothered. For me any car purchase value or not is relative to the initial cost, and risk of major bill. If you pay £5k and get a £2k bill, not too bad. If you pay £10k and face a £2k bill, not so good. That's how I'd be judging it anyway. At the end of the day its all about cost/risk/benefit. If money is no object buy new with a manufacturer warranty protection. But you and I both know you will loose thousands in depreciation in the first three years.
If you're doing mostly motorway driving in one of these, expect about 33-34mpg. Urban driving will drag it down to 26...
Ours is a late 2004 car which we've had for 4 years. The major problems we've had are the tailgate wiring issue mentioned earlier, and a leak from the inlet manifold (twice). First was a warranty repair, second we had to stump up for, but we took it to a good Indy who removed the swirl flaps at the same time. Other than that it's been a very practical and comfy family barge. I just put non-Runflat tyres on which improves the ride quality noticeably,
Ours is a late 2004 car which we've had for 4 years. The major problems we've had are the tailgate wiring issue mentioned earlier, and a leak from the inlet manifold (twice). First was a warranty repair, second we had to stump up for, but we took it to a good Indy who removed the swirl flaps at the same time. Other than that it's been a very practical and comfy family barge. I just put non-Runflat tyres on which improves the ride quality noticeably,
Edited by outnumbered on Sunday 6th November 19:11
outnumbered said:
If you're doing mostly motorway driving in one of these, expect about 33-34mpg. Urban driving will drag it down to 26...
Ours is a late 2004 car which we've had for 4 years. The major problems we've had are the tailgate wiring issue mentioned earlier, and a leak from the inlet manifold (twice). First was a warranty repair, second we had to stump up for, but we took it to a good Indy who removed the swirl flaps at the same time. Other than that it's been a very practical and comfy family barge. I just put non-Runflat tyres on which improves the ride quality noticeably,
Thanks ON, some good advice, I know the mpg is going to be quite a drop from what I'm used too... getting my head around this and doing the financials vs. want/practical vs. fun thinking at the moment.Ours is a late 2004 car which we've had for 4 years. The major problems we've had are the tailgate wiring issue mentioned earlier, and a leak from the inlet manifold (twice). First was a warranty repair, second we had to stump up for, but we took it to a good Indy who removed the swirl flaps at the same time. Other than that it's been a very practical and comfy family barge. I just put non-Runflat tyres on which improves the ride quality noticeably,
Swirl flaps I've read about more and more whilst doing my research, it seems that should I go ahead, I'll need to get these taken out at or before the first service
erm, from the last £1100 bill I had ( A week ago) at 91000 I would be very very careful that the exhaust manifold has been changed, the swirl flaps have been removed and the oil breather has been changed from loo roll to vortex.
Exhaust Manifold = stainless thin skin = splits/cracks & replace around 90-100,000 - parts are £400 ish from BMW and removal is a pain so 4 hours or so labour to change - if the exhaust manifold has started to go there will be soot on the o/s inner wing and adjacent pipes around turbo and intercooler plus may smell of diesel exhaust through fresh air vents in cabin - if it hasnt been replaced already then make sure the warranty will cover or knock around £6-700 off your offer!)
Swirl flaps (if fitted) = securing screws fall off = flaps and screws go thorugh engine = BIG BILL! - PMW remove flaps and fit blanking plugs = £2-300 ish including clean out of inlet and egr valve ( which will make it go like a rocket and improve economy)
Anti roll bar D bushes may need doing - not horrendous but worth bearing in mind
Inner tie rod end bushes may need doing (clunking through steering wheel)
bear in mind NO ONE is buying these at the moment so dont feel ashamed to make a cheeky offer and walk away leaving tel number for whent he seller changes their stance- the phone will ring - it did for me from two different dealers!
Loo roll breather can create issues with breathers and ultimately cause turbo seal failure- check for replacement and very regular servicing.
hope this helps, wish I knew before I purchased mine - but glad I have done now its all sorted.
Exhaust Manifold = stainless thin skin = splits/cracks & replace around 90-100,000 - parts are £400 ish from BMW and removal is a pain so 4 hours or so labour to change - if the exhaust manifold has started to go there will be soot on the o/s inner wing and adjacent pipes around turbo and intercooler plus may smell of diesel exhaust through fresh air vents in cabin - if it hasnt been replaced already then make sure the warranty will cover or knock around £6-700 off your offer!)
Swirl flaps (if fitted) = securing screws fall off = flaps and screws go thorugh engine = BIG BILL! - PMW remove flaps and fit blanking plugs = £2-300 ish including clean out of inlet and egr valve ( which will make it go like a rocket and improve economy)
Anti roll bar D bushes may need doing - not horrendous but worth bearing in mind
Inner tie rod end bushes may need doing (clunking through steering wheel)
bear in mind NO ONE is buying these at the moment so dont feel ashamed to make a cheeky offer and walk away leaving tel number for whent he seller changes their stance- the phone will ring - it did for me from two different dealers!
Loo roll breather can create issues with breathers and ultimately cause turbo seal failure- check for replacement and very regular servicing.
hope this helps, wish I knew before I purchased mine - but glad I have done now its all sorted.
This thread scares me.
I've recently bought a '56 E60 525d and ti's been find so far but has just ticked over to 90k.
Had it mapped last week which helps with getting more from the engine but as has been said don't expect economy. I think i'm averaging 31mpg at the moment ~ £90 a week in fuel.
David.
I've recently bought a '56 E60 525d and ti's been find so far but has just ticked over to 90k.
Had it mapped last week which helps with getting more from the engine but as has been said don't expect economy. I think i'm averaging 31mpg at the moment ~ £90 a week in fuel.
David.
Have you considered a 520d? I had the twin of that one in looks, only a 520d. Averaged 40mpg over the 60k miles I owned it for, and performed surprisingly well. A colleague had a 525d at the same time and was getting much worse economy than me for not much more performance. My current 530d is only a couple of mpg worse, but is an LCI car which does make a difference. I changed the tyres on the 520 to non runflats, and as well as being cheaper the improvement in ride quality and road noise was massive.
Davie_GLA said:
This thread scares me.
...
David.
Agreed... ...
David.
I've also been looking at an '57 525i (LCI). BMW quote wild claims about the economy from their independent tests however, with my yearly mileage significantly lower than it used to be (from 40,000+ a year to 10,000), I'm not sure the extra cost and seeming hassle of a diesel is worth it... maybe I'm ready to make that jump back to a petrol!?
Much neater spec too and just a little bit more price-wise - a deal will need to be done here
hman said:
10,000 = petrol
20,000 = diesel
thats the rule of thumb used by those who have done their sums on maintenance costs!
Makes sense, I was still on a 40K a year thought process. Having read everything I have and the advice you've shared here it seems like the sensible option.20,000 = diesel
thats the rule of thumb used by those who have done their sums on maintenance costs!
So the title should now read "Should I/Shouldn't I? [E60 525i '57]" (same mileage as above diesel).
With the answer being "yes"... unless I hear anything untoward here but so far on my travels around the internet I have not seen anything that worries me beyond the large range of achieved mpg's
I am now the proud owner of a 525i LCI M-Sport Touring
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