Adding boric acid to oil?
Discussion
nottyash said:
Oil companies spend a lot of time and effort developing lubricating oils for various applications, why would you want to piss around adding acid to try and make it more viscous?
Sounds like you could do a whole lot of damage to your engine if you dont know what your doing.
This!Sounds like you could do a whole lot of damage to your engine if you dont know what your doing.
Do you honestly think oil companies would "hobble" their own product in an effort to do what, sell more oil? If someone said it made oil not break down as quickly I could maybe see the logic in it but I'd still trust that advice as much as that 'oirish sounding fella in the transit asking about scrap!
Could someone just read the question?
I.e. the lost art of READING?
Then perhaps answer it from a position of knowledge?
People just rephrasing the question and making stuff up really isn't cutting it guys, I appreciate the ignorant bluster - I really do, so lets take that as all read and understood so we can get onto the actual question. FFS.
Pistonheads: What you imagine they may need to hear.
ETA: Mr GrimNasty so far has the best answer, at least his was funny.
I.e. the lost art of READING?
Then perhaps answer it from a position of knowledge?
People just rephrasing the question and making stuff up really isn't cutting it guys, I appreciate the ignorant bluster - I really do, so lets take that as all read and understood so we can get onto the actual question. FFS.
Pistonheads: What you imagine they may need to hear.
ETA: Mr GrimNasty so far has the best answer, at least his was funny.
freecar said:
OK then here's an answer. Nobody can answer because there have been no laboratory tests to confirm or deny such claims.
Until such time all we can do it spitball like we have.
Try it, you can be the guinea pig.
Boron is used in small quantities in some premium oils - are you saying they haven't tested it?Until such time all we can do it spitball like we have.
Try it, you can be the guinea pig.
How do you know?
What are your credentials?
Oh, and why the f
k do you think I want to use it?If I asked a question about plutonium would you tell me to build a f
king reactor?As someone who knows about this stuff - don't do it!
There may be boron added to certain oils, but it will be carefully measured in, and will not be in the form of boric acid, but bound in with the additive system.
Just adding boric acid into an off the shelf oil is going to screw up the additive. If nothing else it will likely react with the detergent system, and reduce the amount of base left in the oil to neutralise acids formed during combustion. The additive system in a modern high performance oil will be very carefully balanced and subject to millions of pounds of engine testing to achieve it's performance - this balance takes a lot of research and development, so I would say you'd be much wiser to spend a bit extra on a better oil than try something that some bloke on the Internet said would be good!
There may be boron added to certain oils, but it will be carefully measured in, and will not be in the form of boric acid, but bound in with the additive system.
Just adding boric acid into an off the shelf oil is going to screw up the additive. If nothing else it will likely react with the detergent system, and reduce the amount of base left in the oil to neutralise acids formed during combustion. The additive system in a modern high performance oil will be very carefully balanced and subject to millions of pounds of engine testing to achieve it's performance - this balance takes a lot of research and development, so I would say you'd be much wiser to spend a bit extra on a better oil than try something that some bloke on the Internet said would be good!
Globs said:
freecar said:
OK then here's an answer. Nobody can answer because there have been no laboratory tests to confirm or deny such claims.
Until such time all we can do it spitball like we have.
Try it, you can be the guinea pig.
Boron is used in small quantities in some premium oils - are you saying they haven't tested it?Until such time all we can do it spitball like we have.
Try it, you can be the guinea pig.
How do you know?
What are your credentials?
Oh, and why the f
k do you think I want to use it?If I asked a question about plutonium would you tell me to build a f
king reactor?As the question was asked in general gassing I would assume it is something to do with an automobile, asking about adding it to oil makes me think of the engine or gearbox (unless this is a stir fry question then it should go in the food section!) oil and so my answer was based around that.
As far as my credentials go that doesn't matter when it comes to searching for scientific studies of the effects of adding boron to oil, I found none and the many pages of other people asking the same question (with a lot less volatility) were filled with more people who couldn't find a scientific study either.
The oil companies may have figured out a way in which boron particles can be used in their product but nobody short of a chemical engineering masters qualified petrochemist would be able to figure out how to add it to an existing oil.
There are lab tests that show results of boron creating a very low friction lattice of very hard composition but this has nothing to do with adding it to oil yourself.
If the question was "should I be paying the extra for engine oil that has boron in it?" I would still say probably not, lab results are a long way from reproducing the effects in the field, but it is probably a much better idea to do that than to try to add boron yourself to a cheaper oil to gain the same properties.
Willy Nilly said:
I think the OP wanted to know why boric acid might be in oil, not "I have some boric acid and might put some in my oil, waddya reckon?"
Doesn't read that way...."pros and cons of adding it to oil"
vs
"pros and cons of having it in oil"
The OP sounded more like the former than the latter leading me to believe that he was asking about adding it not why it would be there.
Nevertheless, if that's the case it's easy! In 1991 a scientist discovered that boron particles within oil coated metal surfaces creating a very low friction surface, he also discovered that the effect is better if the particles are smaller as they don't tend to settle out of the oil in time. It is this research that led oil companies to invest millions formulating oils that contined small quantities of boron particles, whether these oils are demonstratably better than oils without is still up for debate!
freecar said:
Willy Nilly said:
I think the OP wanted to know why boric acid might be in oil, not "I have some boric acid and might put some in my oil, waddya reckon?"
Doesn't read that way...."pros and cons of adding it to oil"
vs
"pros and cons of having it in oil"
The OP sounded more like the former than the latter leading me to believe that he was asking about adding it not why it would be there.
Willy Nilly said:
I think the OP wanted to know why boric acid might be in oil, not "I have some boric acid and might put some in my oil, waddya reckon?"
Yes, thank God at least one person can read!!I have no idea what fumes the others are breathing.
This is the source of the question: BORIC ESTER OIL CHANGE
Illiterates and ass u mers please note:
1. I have no Boric Acid.
2. I'm not going to buy any Boric acid
3. I'm not even sure what Boric acid is
4. Or where it is sold
5. I'm not even going to change any oil
6. I'm just asking a question
7. Read my first post again, properly this time
8. Goto 1.
Globs said:
Yes, thank God at least one person can read!!
I have no idea what fumes the others are breathing.
This is the source of the question: BORIC ESTER OIL CHANGE
Illiterates and ass u mers please note:
1. I have no Boric Acid.
2. I'm not going to buy any Boric acid
3. I'm not even sure what Boric acid is
4. Or where it is sold
5. I'm not even going to change any oil
6. I'm just asking a question
7. Read my first post again, properly this time
8. Goto 1.
Or alternatively you could have worded the first post better so that the majority of people are not answering the wrong question.I have no idea what fumes the others are breathing.
This is the source of the question: BORIC ESTER OIL CHANGE
Illiterates and ass u mers please note:
1. I have no Boric Acid.
2. I'm not going to buy any Boric acid
3. I'm not even sure what Boric acid is
4. Or where it is sold
5. I'm not even going to change any oil
6. I'm just asking a question
7. Read my first post again, properly this time
8. Goto 1.
Globs said:
Yes, thank God at least one person can read!!
I have no idea what fumes the others are breathing.
This is the source of the question: BORIC ESTER OIL CHANGE
Illiterates and ass u mers please note:
1. I have no Boric Acid.
2. I'm not going to buy any Boric acid
3. I'm not even sure what Boric acid is
4. Or where it is sold
5. I'm not even going to change any oil
6. I'm just asking a question
7. Read my first post again, properly this time
8. Goto 1.
Mmm... not sure if a troll or just an aI have no idea what fumes the others are breathing.
This is the source of the question: BORIC ESTER OIL CHANGE
Illiterates and ass u mers please note:
1. I have no Boric Acid.
2. I'm not going to buy any Boric acid
3. I'm not even sure what Boric acid is
4. Or where it is sold
5. I'm not even going to change any oil
6. I'm just asking a question
7. Read my first post again, properly this time
8. Goto 1.
hole yet.Can you clarify for us illerates and assumers?
Piersman2 said:
Mmm... not sure if a troll or just an ahole yet.
Can you clarify for us illerates and assumers?
Welcome to the thread Piers.hole yet.Can you clarify for us illerates and assumers?
As for your doubt - I can clear that up right now:
You are both a troll and an a
hole.Now try answering the question in Post #1.
If you can't then feel free to back to watching Big Brother or the X factor.
And stop trolling my thread.
Globs said:
Welcome to the thread Piers.
As for your doubt - I can clear that up right now:
You are both a troll and an ahole.
Now try answering the question in Post #1.
If you can't then feel free to back to watching Big Brother or the X factor.
And stop trolling my thread.
Ali Erdemir, senior scientist in Argonne's Energy Systems Division would appear to be a suitable answer to your question in the OP. As for your doubt - I can clear that up right now:
You are both a troll and an a
hole.Now try answering the question in Post #1.
If you can't then feel free to back to watching Big Brother or the X factor.
And stop trolling my thread.
poing said:
Or alternatively you could have worded the first post better so that the majority of people are not answering the wrong question.
You re-write it in a clearer way.Go on.
Seriously, I've re-read it several times now and have no idea why english is a foreign language to so many.
Immigration I guess. Perhaps that's the answer.
Next time I have a technical/mechanical question I'll ask my cat.
This appears to be the answer here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/07080...
Thanks Tiddles - a saucer of milk is on it's way.
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