Do you think the Police are under manned?
Discussion
Dibble said:
Do you mean under staffed?
Yes.
Yes I did mean under staffed, and yes I personally agree with you, but wanted to invite PH's opinion.
This could be interesting.
Dibble, what can be done to attract more people to the Police as a career.
Conversely, what do you think has caused the loss of interest in the Police as a career.
Is it just as a result of gov cuts, and if so WTF dont the gov listen to the BiB pleading for more officers
You want more, the public want more ( at least the law abiding public ).
Does it therefore come down to funding
I can't see anyone here complaining with regards to having human policing rather than robotic policing.
The problem with the way things are going is trying to achieve more with less resources. Hence the marketing / propodanda that scameras are "safety"
devices that co-incidentally generate lots of revenue.
I think an interesting question would be how many people here would contribute a few quid on the council tax to replace the boxes/guns with real police?
The problem with the way things are going is trying to achieve more with less resources. Hence the marketing / propodanda that scameras are "safety"
devices that co-incidentally generate lots of revenue. I think an interesting question would be how many people here would contribute a few quid on the council tax to replace the boxes/guns with real police?
RichardD said:
I can't see anyone here complaining with regards to having human policing rather than robotic policing.
The problem with the way things are going is trying to achieve more with less resources. Hence the marketing / propodanda that scameras are "safety"
I think an interesting question would be how many people here would contribute a few quid on the council tax to replace the boxes/guns with real police?
A new thread Richard.....go for it. It is your question
Are they undermanned or overstretched,
is it that we do not have enough coppers or is that the coppers we have are spending more and more time doing other things (additional paperwork, this legislation, that legistation, etc) rather than being able to get on with the job.
I am sure our resident BiB will enlighten us as to how much time on the job is now spent not doing the job compared to a few years ago
is it that we do not have enough coppers or is that the coppers we have are spending more and more time doing other things (additional paperwork, this legislation, that legistation, etc) rather than being able to get on with the job.
I am sure our resident BiB will enlighten us as to how much time on the job is now spent not doing the job compared to a few years ago
RichardD said:
I think an interesting question would be how many people here would contribute a few quid on the council tax to replace the boxes/guns with real police?
Happy to contribute when it is being spent effectively - unfortunately most of your council tax gets pissed up the wall so no i wouldnt give them another penny - i try my best not to give them what they want now....
blademan said:
Dibble, what can be done to attract more people to the Police as a career.
Double the wages, halve the hours, free donuts all round...
blademan said:
Conversely, what do you think has caused the loss of interest in the Police as a career.
Removal of a number of allowances - housing/rent, and the dilution of the pension.
Plus, you can make a lot more money elswhere, and not have to put up with poor working conditions (buildings falling down, lack of equipment (computers, radios, vehicles), over zealous, politically ambitious bosses, having to quantify and qualify every SINGLE thing you do, not to mention the mind numbingly awkward shifts...).
blademan said:
Is it just as a result of gov cuts, and if so WTF dont the gov listen to the BiB pleading for more officers
You want more, the public want more ( at least the law abiding public ).
Does it therefore come down to funding
Yes - but pretty much every public service is in the same shape, and has been for years, under a variety of Governments. Not a real big vote winner though, increasing taxes, even if it is to pay for improving the public services across the board.
dontlift said:
Are they undermanned or overstretched,
is it that we do not have enough coppers or is that the coppers we have are spending more and more time doing other things (additional paperwork, this legislation, that legistation, etc) rather than being able to get on with the job.
I am sure our resident BiB will enlighten us as to how much time on the job is now spent not doing the job compared to a few years ago
Yes, yes and yes.
In "real terms", although the number of officers has increased in recent years, there are actually less on front line duties, and more doing things like Youth Offending Teams, Drugs Diversion etc etc.
When I started eight years ago, there were six Traffic cars on Division (there were actually ten, but the boundaries have changed, so 6 is the equivalent). Most of these were double crewed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.
There is now ONE car, single crewed, for the whole Division, most of the time.
>> Edited by Dibble on Tuesday 22 June 15:27
TVP got an increase of 24.9% in my last council tax increase.
They have quite enough money, its the administration that needs to be hacked. Its not a case of being underfunded, there is patent waste at every turn.
Making an officer fill out forms 5 times for a simple pull seems ludicrous to me.
Surely this should be electronic?
They have quite enough money, its the administration that needs to be hacked. Its not a case of being underfunded, there is patent waste at every turn.
Making an officer fill out forms 5 times for a simple pull seems ludicrous to me.
Surely this should be electronic?
Dibble said:
There is now ONE car, single crewed, for the whole Division, most of the time.
And this will be why many people in and around our village feel it is fine to drive home from the pub everynight as they wont get caught anyway cause there is no one to catch them.... and I am serious i regularly see people weaving down the roads round the village at kicking out time - pub car parks are full etc
Dibble said:
Surely this should be electronic?
Every Force has it's own IT "King", and everyone uses different hardware and software...
Remember the passport problems a couple of years ago? Or the change to the current Air Traffic Control system?
PNC is forever going tits up...
Thats mainly due to the inability of civil service technical procurement not being able to procure their way out of a paperbag.
Its a big database with some hardcore security. Its hardly bloody rocket science...
Home Sec Wetblanket will have you believe that Police strengths are up and at their highest ever and he and his Master frequently bleat this. In actual fact the fiqures quoted contain CSO's and civilian support staff who are not front line officers. I read somewhere now on 2 to 1 basis. 66% real 33% other. (The odd 1% doesn't know whether he is coming or going).The 33% are in reality the first point of contact as Call Centre Operators/Front and Enquiry Desk staff.
In the 60's 70's our Traffic Section covering the A.1 etc through the County and start of bits of A.1.(M) had a strength of 35. Home Office came out with a circular outlining the number of cars/m cycles per mile of Trunk Road/Motorway and crewing. Did an exercice and out strengths should have been 172 officers and five times as many vehicle. Obviously it never happened. Lasy year Parliament Advisory Council for Transport Safety released the fact that there has been a 12% drop in Traffic Officers over the past 5 years.
Likewise when they brought PACE in with the role of Custody sergeant. Extra were promised none it seems materialised. Now being civilianised.
But to be perfectly fair TPTB did release Police from various functions, Diseases of Animals, Stray Dogs etc. Yet managed to burden Plod down with paperwork and close Police Stations.
New York Protocol has shown, where the Mayor increased his Police establishment x 3 and Zero Tolerance applied, crime fiqures etc dropped. But there was a cost to be paid by the Public in increased taxes.
As succinctly pointed out same could be achieved in UK but are you prepared to pay?
Interesting thread but surely the crux is DO YOU , mr Joe Public, think your Police are understrength?
DVD
In the 60's 70's our Traffic Section covering the A.1 etc through the County and start of bits of A.1.(M) had a strength of 35. Home Office came out with a circular outlining the number of cars/m cycles per mile of Trunk Road/Motorway and crewing. Did an exercice and out strengths should have been 172 officers and five times as many vehicle. Obviously it never happened. Lasy year Parliament Advisory Council for Transport Safety released the fact that there has been a 12% drop in Traffic Officers over the past 5 years.
Likewise when they brought PACE in with the role of Custody sergeant. Extra were promised none it seems materialised. Now being civilianised.
But to be perfectly fair TPTB did release Police from various functions, Diseases of Animals, Stray Dogs etc. Yet managed to burden Plod down with paperwork and close Police Stations.
New York Protocol has shown, where the Mayor increased his Police establishment x 3 and Zero Tolerance applied, crime fiqures etc dropped. But there was a cost to be paid by the Public in increased taxes.
As succinctly pointed out same could be achieved in UK but are you prepared to pay?
Interesting thread but surely the crux is DO YOU , mr Joe Public, think your Police are understrength?
DVD
Lets just think about this tangentially. Less % of resource out front, more time spent in politically correct bollox. These issues taken for granted.
Could it also be because a greater proportion of the population, aka Decent Upstanding Citizen, who might be inclined to consider going into the job, having reached a certain age sees what happens on the streets most weekend evenings in town centres all over the country.
By this I mean a total waste of police resource dealing with completely bladdered TFAs who just want to argue the toss even when everyone within 20 miles know they are 100% in the wrong.
(Side question: what happened to the "his eyes were glazed, he was unsteady on his feet, his speech was slurred, etc etc" being more than enough for a night in the cells and up before the beak?)
Decent Upstanding Citizen sees what the average b-i-b has to put up with on a regular basis and thinks, "Sod that for a game of soldiers!"
Couple that with all the other garbage, ie Blunkett Reforming the Reforms of the Reforms and what do you get.
With all respect a Force in Crisis, which leads to....
rgds to all,
FiF (seriously thinking of leaving this place.... UK not PH obviously)
Could it also be because a greater proportion of the population, aka Decent Upstanding Citizen, who might be inclined to consider going into the job, having reached a certain age sees what happens on the streets most weekend evenings in town centres all over the country.
By this I mean a total waste of police resource dealing with completely bladdered TFAs who just want to argue the toss even when everyone within 20 miles know they are 100% in the wrong.
(Side question: what happened to the "his eyes were glazed, he was unsteady on his feet, his speech was slurred, etc etc" being more than enough for a night in the cells and up before the beak?)
Decent Upstanding Citizen sees what the average b-i-b has to put up with on a regular basis and thinks, "Sod that for a game of soldiers!"
Couple that with all the other garbage, ie Blunkett Reforming the Reforms of the Reforms and what do you get.
With all respect a Force in Crisis, which leads to....
rgds to all,
FiF (seriously thinking of leaving this place.... UK not PH obviously)
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