X-Type 2.5 / 3.5 Sport

[handbraketurn]

Afternoon All,

Considering an x-type for winter, need to do a bit of traveling, mix of motorway, city and country roads. Like the idea of all-wheel-drive in the winter, but also want some refinement that other all-wheel drive cars don't offer.

Have a couple of questions.

1st is reliability.

Pre 03' models seem to have a few issues, my main concern is various reports of weak gearboxes which worries me. With a relatively low mileage / fully serviced car, should I worry about this?

2nd which engine.

Really mixed bag of reports from media and owners reviews about MPG, some say the 3.0 is too thirsty for the extra power it delivers. Others seem to think the MPG gains are marginal and you might as well get more welly (I like the former attitude).

3rd and final, auto vs manual.

I've never owned an auto and would really rather have a manual. They're obvioulsy very rare and I read wont' be as easy to sell given Jag drivers generally prefer an auto.

Just wondered if the more modern auto's have a tip-tronic type function. I have read they do on wiki, but doesn't say when they started.

Opinions / info, very much appreciated.

[richolmes]

The difference in fuel consumption between the 2.5 and 3.0 is negligible, unless the 2.5 is a bargain - go for the 3.0

Regarding the gearbox, I've driven both and would suggest you go try both - both suit the car well but I preferred the Auto, the 5-speed manual was heavy and not as nice as the 6-speed in a similar age V6 Mondeo.

[Rollcage]

I wouldn't say the manuals are desperately rare - not as common as an auto, but not hard to get hold of.

The weak gearboxes does seem to be a problem - lots with second gear synchro issues. I'd still rather replace a manual box than an auto box though, cost wise.

[handbraketurn]

Rollcage said:

I wouldn't say the manuals are desperately rare - not as common as an auto, but not hard to get hold of.

The weak gearboxes does seem to be a problem - lots with second gear synchro issues. I'd still rather replace a manual box than an auto box though, cost wise.

From that I am guessing the auto and manuals share the same weaknesses.

Does anyone know about the tip-tronic of the auto.

I just saw one at my local jag dealership, looked pretty modern and that had an auto g/b with a up / down tip on the gear leaver, but looked pretty modern. I was looking at 03-07' models.

[handbraketurn]

At my local dealers today, the x-type in their forecort had this gear stick style, which clearly had a tip-tronic style gear selector.



The ones I have been looking at have this (not sure if this has it or not?):

[Six Fiend]

It's not the gearbox you need to worry about, it's the tranfer box and prop shaft. Rumbles, whines and vibrations can happen at any mileage. Cost is around £1600 to have both replaced.

The auto box is a lazy affair and not known for being fun or likely to hold high miles. The manual is firm and doesn't like being rushed, but suits my driving style. Does 70 in second

1st and 3rd are notorious for being stiff if the car has been sat about and also when cold. Just be precise and all is fine. In fairness I had two Foci like that too!

Economy is better in the manual, I run low 20s mpg in town and up to 40mpg on a run (3.0, 2002 with 68k on it, FJSH).

Very little goes wrong with the V6. Service parts are cheap, there are plenty in breakers for other bits.

I thoroughly enjoy mine, it's comfy, quick and relaxing.

Digital climate and cruise are good, if you can get heated screen and seats it's a bonus. Many have through load boot too.

You can get a good 3.0 for well under £3k.

Edited by Six Fiend on Sunday 6th November 19:58

[handbraketurn]

Thanks Six Fiend.

Was also looking at S4's, but way more expensive and its heavier, sot he bhp per tonne is not massively more. And I reckon the chassis of the X-type and steering feedback is probably bettter.

I don't think I could really live with an auto, if it had a tip-tronic, so I could at least hold it in gear I would consider it but I think I would hate a normal auto.

In terms of values, I have been looking at to get a decent 03' onwards with relatively low miles seems to be £3,500 - 8k.

Haven't seen many about in the price range you mention, be the absolute bargain of the century at that money.

I love underestimated cars.

[Six Fiend]

You're welcome!

An early one privately should be under the 3k mark now, if you go up to around £5k you can get a lot of car for the money

One more thing, have a real good poke up under the sill covers. These can store dirt and thus rust through. Pain in the neck, but mine only had a few surface spots when checked last month. All treated, sills undersealed, drain holes cleared et

Happy hunting

[Domf]

Currently on my 2nd X type 2.5 Sport manual, must mention that the SPORT has a firmer suspension setup to Classic and SE models.
Sport is normally spotted by having colour coded wings in the bumpers not chrome fittings.
I agree with other comments achiles heel is the transfer box and this has no mileage indicator as to when it will go, likes bushes, prop whine, Jaguar tried to solve throughout the production life of the car but any remedy seems short lived. Also most owners report a boom in noise at certain speeds from prop.
Mine is 2006 50k owned from new serviced between FJSH (3YRS) Specialist JSH (2years) currently probably would get 4500-6000k, Midnight black, full dove leather (extra cost option full leather on Sport).
As a winter vehicle, it's good but can be tail happy as it puts 60% to the back if it wants too, variable power delivery upto 60r/40f . Also standard fit 225/40 18'S tend to push it on in corners. Canada boys drop wheels down to 175 or 185 for winter driving and winter tyres.
If you opt for pre 2004 car check, cooling air scoop is present under vehicle at gearbox, this tends to get pulled off or broken should any previous owner has driven through deep snow or hit a silent policeman at speed. I had one on my 2003, but Jaguar had dropped the air scoop by my 2006

[FreeLitres]

Domf said:

Currently on my 2nd X type 2.5 Sport manual, must mention that the SPORT has a firmer suspension setup to Classic and SE models.

There is only 15% in it between the Sport and SE suspension.

My 3.0 SE on 17 inch rims was an excellent car and was not sloppy in the slightest. If anything, the SE is probably better suited to the rubbish British roads!

[Domf]

FreeLitres said:

My 3.0 SE on 17 inch rims was an excellent car and was not sloppy in the slightest. If anything, the SE is probably better suited to the rubbish British roads!

I'd agree on rims my 1st X type Sport was on 17 inch rims and handled really well and was comfortable.
The current car sits on 18 inch aruba's lot harsher ride as little or no sidewall in tyre and all alloys will need a refurb as British road potholes can easily scuff.
Remember to check inner of front tyres on full lock, X's chew front tyres inside out. You can look on outside full tread depth, turn lock and smooth as a baby's bottom on the inners. Jaguar tried to cure by setting toe in and then toe out or was it the other way around, can't remember but on both cars I expected 20k max on front tyres.

[Domf]

[quote=handbraketurn]At my local dealers today, the x-type in their forecort had this gear stick style, which clearly had a tip-tronic style gear selector.



This picture is I believe a late diesel, as you can see the traction control button in the bottom left you won't see that in the AWD car. Diesel automatic only arrived with the FWD 2.2 engine.
Also note that when the X was only available in petrol form, Jaguar produced a detuned V6 petrol version that was 2.0 and not AWD. All diesel variants 2.0 or 2.2 are FWD.

[xjr Jack]

handbraketurn said:

Thanks Six Fiend.

I don't think I could really live with an auto, if it had a tip-tronic, so I could at least hold it in gear I would consider it but I think I would hate a normal auto.

I love underestimated cars.

The J-gate (the second picture you posted) allows you to hold the gear.

[ADP68]

I have a 3.0 manual estate sport. The sport setting is a bit firm for me, but it is a good car and great in the snow. I've had no problems with it and the speed is quite good (although i only manage 23.4mpg on my 8 mile round trip station run. In retrospect, I should have bought a model that isn't the firm 'sport' suspension, but it is fine nontheless.

[ADP68]

ADP68 said:

I have a 3.0 manual estate sport premium. The sport setting is a bit firm for me, but it is a good car and great in the snow. I've had no problems with it and the speed is quite good (although i only manage 23.4mpg on my 8 mile round trip station run. In retrospect, I should have bought a model that isn't the firm 'sport' suspension, but it is fine nontheless. Mine has the heated leather and heated front windscreen (which is a godsend). I only missed one day's work last winter in the bad snow and I live up a bloody big hill in the middle of nowhere, so a good car!

[handbraketurn]

xjr Jack said:

handbraketurn said:

Thanks Six Fiend.

I don't think I could really live with an auto, if it had a tip-tronic, so I could at least hold it in gear I would consider it but I think I would hate a normal auto.

I love underestimated cars.

The J-gate (the second picture you posted) allows you to hold the gear.

Thanks, from what I have seen from looking through the classified, this is only on very late cars and appears to only be on oil burners.

So from that I think we can conclude, manual is the option for me.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[varsas]

You might want to do some research into the 4wd system, iirc late cars have an open diff between front/back axles...you'd actually be better off with fwd on snow.

[handbraketurn]

varsas said:

You might want to do some research into the 4wd system, iirc late cars have an open diff between front/back axles...you'd actually be better off with fwd on snow.

You might need to explain that in a bit more detail for me not sure I understand why an open diff would make FWD better?

I'm looking at 03/04 - 06' cars.

[varsas]

handbraketurn said:

varsas said:

You might want to do some research into the 4wd system, iirc late cars have an open diff between front/back axles...you'd actually be better off with fwd on snow.

You might need to explain that in a bit more detail for me not sure I understand why an open diff would make FWD better?

I'm looking at 03/04 - 06' cars.

As I said in my post, do some research, I'm not an expert.

In a 4WD system with three open diffs, (as later X-types do) the system will seek out the wheel with the lowest grip, and send all it's power to that wheel. The other wheels will only receive as much power as that wheel has grip. In normal driving this is fine, but on low grip surfaces it's useless, since you want it as a winter car I thought that might be important to you. You could use electronics to brake the spinning wheel and redistribute that power, but I watched an X-type get stuck on a shallow incline in the snow just spinning it's rear wheels so at least some X-types don't do that or do it very badly. At least with a FWD car the system only seeks out whichever of the front wheels has the least grip. Also with weight of the engine/gearbox pushing down on them (as in an X-type) the front wheels will usually have more grip then the rear wheels. So, all power to the wheel with the least traction vs all power to the front wheel with the least traction will usually see the later win. My FWD car beats your (so called) 4WD car and the 4WD system was actually a hindrance. That's why an open centre diff makes FWD better...

Early cars (pre '03 I *think*) have an LSD between the front/rear axles so power always goes to both axles. To me (a land rover owner, who actually drives off-road), that's 4WD. The later ones are not.

Again, do some research...

Edited by varsas on Saturday 12th November 14:17

[benebob]

varsas said:

You might want to do some research into the 4wd system, iirc late cars have an open diff between front/back axles...you'd actually be better off with fwd on snow.

Later ones just didn't transfer as much power from front to rear so they tend to remain a very much rear bias driven car. Early cars would go 50-50, later 65-35. Loads of fun and as with any awd car you need to know how to drive an awd car otherwise you will get stuck. Mine has seen 18 inches of snow with just all season tires and goes just fine. Then again, I also don't have much problem with the XJR with snows on it either.

A 5 speed and the 2.5 will net you about 5mpg better than the 3.0 on the highway. Nothing to sneeze about IMHO.

From my experience with awd cars I'd rate 'em like this.
Subaru awd system 9
Audi quattro 8.5
Jaguar X type system 7
Mercedes 4trac 7
BMW awd 5