If you want proof that the EU's not a democracy
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15611399
Liz Lynne MEP stands down, is there a byelection? No, under EU rules when an MEP stands down, the position is automatically taken by the second candidate on the party's list at the last election. So for 2 1/2 years her understudy will represent us despite not really winning a seat.
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Liz Lynne MEP stands down, is there a byelection? No, under EU rules when an MEP stands down, the position is automatically taken by the second candidate on the party's list at the last election. So for 2 1/2 years her understudy will represent us despite not really winning a seat.
Vote UKIP
Maybe I'm being a bit hyper-paranoid, but I have an uneasy feeling about the EU. It seems to be a very big, very power-hungry monster, and I'm not sure where it will end. Certainly it needs to end soon before it's 'too late'.
By end I don't necessarily mean disbanding it, or us leaving it. However, something needs to be done to keep it more as a trade agreement than whatever you'd call it now
By end I don't necessarily mean disbanding it, or us leaving it. However, something needs to be done to keep it more as a trade agreement than whatever you'd call it now
sjn2004 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15611399
Liz Lynne MEP stands down, is there a byelection? No, under EU rules when an MEP stands down, the position is automatically taken by the second candidate on the party's list at the last election. So for 2 1/2 years her understudy will represent us despite not really winning a seat.
Vote UKIP
So not really dissimilar to what happens when a British prime minister stands down?Liz Lynne MEP stands down, is there a byelection? No, under EU rules when an MEP stands down, the position is automatically taken by the second candidate on the party's list at the last election. So for 2 1/2 years her understudy will represent us despite not really winning a seat.
Vote UKIP
NismoGT said:
Just shows how stupid they are - it's the Union FLAG not the Union JACK, it is only the Union Jack when it's flown on a boat.Also, it doesn't only apply to the UK, but all EU member states - of which I'm sure there'll be a few patriots amongst them. It's got no chance of passing into law.
FarleyRusk said:
So not really dissimilar to what happens when a British prime minister stands down?
Yes exactly. When a prime minister stands down the next person on the regional list who was not elected at the election 2 years before becomes prime minister..........................................no wait a second..............
On closer observation it is not remotely similar in any possible way.
Mr Happy said:
Also, it doesn't only apply to the UK, but all EU member states - of which I'm sure there'll be a few patriots amongst them. It's got no chance of passing into law.
Nor would they sign the Treaty of Rome if it were any more than a trade agreement.Let alone the Single European Act, Maastricht, Amsterdam, the EU constitution etc etc.
Every EU power grab follows the same pattern:
Phase 1 - "it will never happen, it's just the tabloids"
Phase 2 - "some people are talking about it but we'll use the veto"
Phase 3 - "It's happened already, shows why we should be more involved at the centre of Europe"
Phase 4 - "Thank God it did happen or we'd all be ruined by now. Only little Englanders and neo Nazis would say otherwise"
It's a political union with massive, unaccountable power centralised in a few hands, and the sooner we are out the better.
sjn2004 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15611399
Liz Lynne MEP stands down, is there a byelection? No, under EU rules when an MEP stands down, the position is automatically taken by the second candidate on the party's list at the last election. So for 2 1/2 years her understudy will represent us despite not really winning a seat.
Vote UKIP
UKIP's Stance on Europe.....Liz Lynne MEP stands down, is there a byelection? No, under EU rules when an MEP stands down, the position is automatically taken by the second candidate on the party's list at the last election. So for 2 1/2 years her understudy will represent us despite not really winning a seat.
Vote UKIP
http://www.ukip.org/page/truth
Some truths about the EU…
Britain is deeper in debt than an ANY time in its history and yet we're borrowing MORE money to pay for the EU. In fact the EU is now costing Britain £45 million a day!
The £300 billion paid to date would pay for thousands of doctors, nurses, teachers, hospitals and schools. Without the EU, tuition fees could be scrapped, VAT slashed, immigration could be controlled.
Here are some common myths and truths about the EU...
THE MYTH: 'The EU is good for the economy'
THE TRUTH: It costs us around £45 million a day to be part of the vast European bureaucracy, yet the benefits are hard to define and especially hard to justify when we're already deep in debt. We're borrowing money to pay for the EU. And with 70% of our laws now made in Brussels, we’re being strangled by red tape. And we’re bailing out the Eurozone, even though we aren’t in the Euro.
THE MYTH: 'The EU is all about trade and jobs – vote YES for a Common Market'
THE TRUTH: When Britain voted 'yes' in the 1975 referendum, we didn’t really know what we were voting for. It was a trick. Who would have voted for a colossal, centralised bureaucracy, the eradication of our borders and the loss of British sovereignty? Recently, the EU announced its own Diplomatic Service, costing £8 billion and duplicating existing national embassies around the world. There will soon be EU missions in Barbados (46 lucky staff), Burkina Faso in Africa and Vanuatu in the Pacific. EU money already subsidises French colonies in South America and the Caribbean.
THE MYTH: 'We'll cut immigration to tens of thousands a year' - David Cameron
THE TRUTH: Last year we had more arrivals than ever before (239,000 that we know about!) and any of the 500 million people with an EU passport can walk past UK border control to work, live and claim benefits here. Immigration from the EU is out of our hands. This is pushing British unemployment problems to new heights and causing enormous strains on housing, schools and hospitals. Britain’s borders now effectively include North Africa, Russia and Turkey. UKIP is not 'anti-immigration', UKIP favours CONTROLLED immigration.
THE MYTH: 'The Euro – one currency for one Europe'
THE TRUTH: Many British politicians wanted Britain to join the Euro... the Liberal Democrats still do (how stupid is that?) Countries which adopted the Euro are now in dire straits. Greece is bankrupt, with strikes and riots daily. Irish homeowners are almost £1 billion in negative equity. Italy has been downgraded. Spain is at risk. Right now bailouts for the struggling Eurozone countries threaten the entire world banking system.
THE MYTH: 'The UK can't survive on its own in a global economy.'
THE TRUTH: The UK is the world's sixth largest economy and one of the 10 largest manufacturers. The UK needs to trade freely with all the countries of the world, especially the Commonwealth. 93% of potential world trade is beyond the inward looking EU. Britain was built on world trade and it still is.
THE MYTH: 'If we left the EU, we'd be isolated and unable to trade with European nations.'
THE TRUTH: Trade 'scare' stories are just that. 40% of our export trade is with the EU and we're the EU’s customer! Switzerland and Norway aren't EU members, yet they enjoy strong trade relationships with the EU (and the highest standards of living in Europe!). 70% of Switzerland's trade is with EU member states.
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THE MYTH: 'We can renegotiate the treaties’
THE TRUTH: The Conservatives say they will reform our relationship with the EU by 'repatriating' some powers from the EU back to British control. The truth is that under the Maastricht Treaty (1992) the entire 170,000 pages of EU law and regulations must be accepted in full by all member states. We cannot even stop the nonsense of ‘votes for prisoners’ in our jails. We are just one voice in an assembly of 27 countries, we lose every time. Of the 27 Commissioners, at least 8 are former communists.
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THE MYTH: 'The EU is the guarantor of our human rights and civil liberties.'
THE TRUTH: Under an EU law pushed through in 2005 by Liberal Democrat MEP Sir Graham Watson, you can now be arrested and deported to any EU country without any evidence being presented to a British court. In 2010, Conservative Home Secretary Theresa May voluntarily opted-in to the European Investigation Order, enabling foreign police to tap your phone, take your DNA and look into your bank account.
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THE MYTH: Compulsory pro-EU lessons in schools?
THE TRUTH: The Education act 1966 states that if anyone presents information in a school that is of a political nature, a balancing presentation must be made. Yet the European Parliament has just voted in favour of compulsory teaching of the 'advantages' of EU membership in schools (a7-0293/2011). They've also just spent €15 million on an EU 'history' centre and describe the First and Second World Wars as 'civil wars'.
THE MYTH: Millions lost to fraud and irregularities…
THE TRUTH: It’s a gravy train! It’s been running for years and is still making millionaires out of failed politicians who make it to Brussels. MP’s expenses scandals are nothing compared to the scams and dodges that see millions go missing at Brussels.
THE MYTH: The EU attacks The City of London?
THE TRUTH: EU wants to introduce a Financial Transaction Tax that would, at its own estimate, cost the city of London 50,000 jobs. Our Government says it will veto it but the EU is working on a plan to introduce the measure as a 'value added tax', which does not require a new treaty and therefore does not enable anyone to veto it. The EU is destroying our largest single industry…and taxpayer.
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THE MYTH: 'A European Union will bring peace.'
THE TRUTH: The idea of a single European state came about shortly after the Second World War, when politicians thought we could prevent future wars by eradicating sovereign states. Yet the EU failed to stop genocide in the Balkans and today the folly of the Euro is the direct cause of massive problems in Greece. The truth of the matter is that the overwhelming defeat of fascism in 1945 and the creation of NATO were, and still are, the real guarantors of peace in Europe, irrespective of the EU.
THE MYTH: 'Is UKIP anti-European?' No!
THE TRUTH: We're not anti-European! We love Europe! We celebrate the diversity and variety of the cultures and peoples of Europe. We respect the rights of sovereign states and their peoples to democratically determine their own futures and live in peace and harmony whilst trading with their neighbours. And we're already working with other passionately democratic and freedom loving organisations like ours across Europe.
It’s not just UKIP calling for a referendum…
WHAT ARE WE CALLING FOR?
To take power back by leaving the EU.
To take back the right to control who can come into the country.
To put the UK first.
I think this is really a story about nothing.
Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
vit4 said:
Maybe I'm being a bit hyper-paranoid, but I have an uneasy feeling about the EU. It seems to be a very big, very power-hungry monster, and I'm not sure where it will end. Certainly it needs to end soon before it's 'too late'.
By end I don't necessarily mean disbanding it, or us leaving it. However, something needs to be done to keep it more as a trade agreement than whatever you'd call it now
It's a great big socialist redistribution of wealth scheme.By end I don't necessarily mean disbanding it, or us leaving it. However, something needs to be done to keep it more as a trade agreement than whatever you'd call it now
sunbeam alpine said:
I think this is really a story about nothing.
Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
Correct.Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
MEPs are voted by proportional representation - so if one MEP steps down and a by-election is held then we would have to shake up the entire constituency each time. How daft.
I'm one of the most fervently anti-EU members on PH, but even I'll agree this thread is daft!
sunbeam alpine said:
I think this is really a story about nothing.
Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
The point is, 2 years down the line would everybody vote the same as they did originally? In the LibDems case thats a definate NO.Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
sjn2004 said:
sunbeam alpine said:
I think this is really a story about nothing.
Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
The point is, 2 years down the line would everybody vote the same as they did originally? In the LibDems case thats a definate NO.Do you vote for a person, or vote for a party? If you vote for a party, and then (for whatever reason) the first candidate steps down, I don't see any problem with the next in line stepping up to the plate.
I'm sure that a by-election costs a huge amount of money to organise. The fact that the UK does this when a MP dies/retires/steps down/appears in the press "supported by his wife" etc. doesn't mean that it's the best system.
Just out of curiosity, have all the posters in this thread actually voted every chance they've had? (I'll put up my hands and admit that I haven't always bothered).
Regarding your comment about the Libdems, what would you change? Labour were an unmitigated disaster for the country - another 10 years (if it took that long) and we'd be in the same situation as Greece. The Tories didn't get enough support to govern outright, and Nick Clegg made what was I think was the better choice of the two available to him at the time.
Had he chosen to support Gordon Brown, I think he would have been even more vilified. Had he refused to take sides there may have had to be elections held again, and the Libdems may well have been the losers there as a result of tactical voting, in addition to getting criticised for not being able to choose a side.
At least by choosing the way he did, he probably believed that the Libdems had a chance of softening some of the Tories policies. It maybe hasn't worked out as expected, and some voters may feel let down, but the reality is that there needs to be a serious level of cost-cutting and economic reorganisation, which isn't going to be very pleasant for a lot of people.
I'm neither an apologist nor a voter for the LibDems. The UK (along with a great deal of Western Europe) has lived beyond its means - both individually and collectively - for far too long, and the consequences have to be faced.
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