Modern car technology: has it gone too far?
Discussion
I learned to drive in the 1980's. My current brand new car is a high spec manual Passat. Every time I drive it I still cannot believe what gizmos it provides and how simple it makes motoring.
Here's an example of how I used to undertake a long journey back in the day, with a comparison to today:
Then: Plan route on map. Now: set Sat-Nav.
Then: check tyre pressures. Now: no need, Multi-Function-Display does that.
Then: unlock doors with key. Now: blip fob
Then: pull choke out and start engine. Now: start engine.
Then: if dark switch on lights. Now: no need, automatic.
Then: feed choke back in. Now: pick nose.
Then: engage hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, auto-hold.
Then: release hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, automatic release.
Then: control speed on motorway with accelerator pedal. Now: set cruise control.
Then: if it starts raining, switch on wipers. Now: no need, automatic.
Then: use local knowledge to avoid snarl-ups and roadworks. Now: obey Sat-Nav.
Then: switch off engine in lengthy hold-ups. Now: car does it automatically.
Then: open winding windows for ventilation. Now: adjust climate control.
Then: stop at phone box if required. Now: phone fully integrated to call en route.
Then: wind up windows and lock each door. Now: blip fob.
Then: balance cup of hot tea between thighs. Now: pop it in cup holder.
Then: hope tape doesn't get lunched by cassette player. Now: enjoy digital music.
Added to this there are other things I don't have such as:
Parking sensors front & rear
Automatic parellel parking function
Clutchless gearbox
Seat/mirror settings memory
Active fob that opens/locks doors automatically and doesn't need inserting in dash
Self opening/closing boot-lid
To be honest all of the above functions have made driving easier and more comfortable, but the only input many drivers seem to have these days is accelerate, brake and steer, with the (occasional) flick of the indicator stalk. It's almost as if we don't need an actual driving test anymore: it could all be performed in the classroom.
Here's an example of how I used to undertake a long journey back in the day, with a comparison to today:
Then: Plan route on map. Now: set Sat-Nav.
Then: check tyre pressures. Now: no need, Multi-Function-Display does that.
Then: unlock doors with key. Now: blip fob
Then: pull choke out and start engine. Now: start engine.
Then: if dark switch on lights. Now: no need, automatic.
Then: feed choke back in. Now: pick nose.
Then: engage hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, auto-hold.
Then: release hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, automatic release.
Then: control speed on motorway with accelerator pedal. Now: set cruise control.
Then: if it starts raining, switch on wipers. Now: no need, automatic.
Then: use local knowledge to avoid snarl-ups and roadworks. Now: obey Sat-Nav.
Then: switch off engine in lengthy hold-ups. Now: car does it automatically.
Then: open winding windows for ventilation. Now: adjust climate control.
Then: stop at phone box if required. Now: phone fully integrated to call en route.
Then: wind up windows and lock each door. Now: blip fob.
Then: balance cup of hot tea between thighs. Now: pop it in cup holder.
Then: hope tape doesn't get lunched by cassette player. Now: enjoy digital music.
Added to this there are other things I don't have such as:
Parking sensors front & rear
Automatic parellel parking function
Clutchless gearbox
Seat/mirror settings memory
Active fob that opens/locks doors automatically and doesn't need inserting in dash
Self opening/closing boot-lid
To be honest all of the above functions have made driving easier and more comfortable, but the only input many drivers seem to have these days is accelerate, brake and steer, with the (occasional) flick of the indicator stalk. It's almost as if we don't need an actual driving test anymore: it could all be performed in the classroom.
I think that some of the devices in common use today are useful. ABS being the main one and cruise control for long journeys and climate control for that hot day in July and even auto sensing windscreen wipers are useful as I found that they reacted quicker to wiping my screen than I did when splashed by lorries going through muddy puddles.
However, if I went into a garage and ticked the boxes for brake assist, parking sensors and distance sensitive cruise control and traction control I'd seriously think about handing my licence in.
However, if I went into a garage and ticked the boxes for brake assist, parking sensors and distance sensitive cruise control and traction control I'd seriously think about handing my licence in.
LotusOmega375D said:
To be honest all of the above functions have made driving easier and more comfortable, but the only input many drivers seem to have these days is accelerate, brake and steer, with the (occasional) flick of the indicator stalk. It's almost as if we don't need an actual driving test anymore: it could all be performed in the classroom.
I make extensive use of the cruise control in the A6, so make minimal use of the accelerator .... but I do wish more people would pay attention to the road around them, instead of the continual zombie like state they're in, which ends up in incidents like experienced on the M5.And while I drive an Audi (and used to drive a BMW), the indicators always seem to work.
Many of those technological devices just make life easier, which I'm all for. I've got better things to do than memorise routes through south London with 35 junctions and roundabouts to remember - now I'll do something for fun instead before a journey, and then just jump in the car and programme the sat nav. Sat Nav has also made driving safer, as we're no longer looking at notes and maps whilst we're driving. Likewise, parking sensors are a fantastic tool that as far as I know have no negative effects, and just make life easier, especially in today's bigger cars with thicker pillars and worse vision. Also, don't forget that most people who pass their tests will, for a good time to come, start driving in cars without parking sensors, and probably won't be able to afford Sat Nav, so they will learn the traditional methods to fall back on.
I vote for technology - it's great and makes life easier. It brings us a step closer to the fabled leisure age and frees up time and energy for things that enrich our lifes, rather than bothering with boring details which computers can do instead.
If there's one thing I can't stand it's the luddite attitude of "in my day we didn't have..". It's much like that hilarious Fast Show sketch where three old men are competing with stories of how badly off they were as kids. I get this too from older relatives in my family who criticise Facebook. As it happens, through Facebook I'm more in touch with my geographically seperated family and friends than I ever could be via phone, letter and e-mail. Technology mainly works to enrich lifes, and I think it's unfair to criticise it.
I vote for technology - it's great and makes life easier. It brings us a step closer to the fabled leisure age and frees up time and energy for things that enrich our lifes, rather than bothering with boring details which computers can do instead.
If there's one thing I can't stand it's the luddite attitude of "in my day we didn't have..". It's much like that hilarious Fast Show sketch where three old men are competing with stories of how badly off they were as kids. I get this too from older relatives in my family who criticise Facebook. As it happens, through Facebook I'm more in touch with my geographically seperated family and friends than I ever could be via phone, letter and e-mail. Technology mainly works to enrich lifes, and I think it's unfair to criticise it.
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 8th November 11:50
There is a new Ford advert that tells you you don't need to pay attention to the road as it will look out for hazards and act accordingly and you don't need to have any spacial awareness as it will park for you.
Very soon the car will be a complete transport robot. Some will applaud this.
At the moment we are in a tricky stage where drivers are still expected to do some of the driving. As a result it is quite dangerous due to lots of drivers currently not being interested in doing any of the driving. When they have to do none of it the roads will be a safer place and sadly the skill of driving will be a dying art.
Very soon the car will be a complete transport robot. Some will applaud this.
At the moment we are in a tricky stage where drivers are still expected to do some of the driving. As a result it is quite dangerous due to lots of drivers currently not being interested in doing any of the driving. When they have to do none of it the roads will be a safer place and sadly the skill of driving will be a dying art.
Crook said:
sadly the skill of driving will be a dying art.
Just like the ability to ride a horse was a dying art at the advent of the car, except amongst enthusiasts who still happily ride horses. As long as the freedom to choose to drive isn't taken away, enthusiasts will be able to continue driving, and will probably benefit from having more and more assistance given to those 'drivers' that only saw driving as the means to an end.It just proves on a product like a car, that Marketing & Technology do not make good bedfellows.
Personally all I want is:
Electric windows, fronts will do.
Remote central locking with alarm & auto closure.
Radio/CD player with Bluetooth.
Air Con.
Electric + heated mirrors
Heated W/screen washers
OTG
Multi adjustable cloth seats
Adjustable steering wheel
Cup holders x 2
Front fog lights
Boggo 5/6 speed manual or 5 speed auto
ABS
T/control
Cruise control
Full size spare wheel.
I think in this day & age the above is not too much to ask as everything else I can very happily live without.
Personally all I want is:
Electric windows, fronts will do.
Remote central locking with alarm & auto closure.
Radio/CD player with Bluetooth.
Air Con.
Electric + heated mirrors
Heated W/screen washers
OTG
Multi adjustable cloth seats
Adjustable steering wheel
Cup holders x 2
Front fog lights
Boggo 5/6 speed manual or 5 speed auto
ABS
T/control
Cruise control
Full size spare wheel.
I think in this day & age the above is not too much to ask as everything else I can very happily live without.
Hi
For me many of the gadgets are things I don't really want.
Automatic lights, self locking doors or rain sensing wipers I would pay not to have. Cruise control, electrically adjustable seats, etc I prefer not to have.
Air conditioning, air bags, trip computers and sat nav, etc are nice to have but it wouldn't bother me if they they weren't fitted. Parking sensors depend on the car (would be nice on the X type as the shape of the back of the car makes it hard to judge).
Niceties are electric windows, remote adjustable door mirrors, power steering (assuming it is a reasonable system and leaves you with some feel), etc. These are things I would pay for.
All the best
Keith
For me many of the gadgets are things I don't really want.
Automatic lights, self locking doors or rain sensing wipers I would pay not to have. Cruise control, electrically adjustable seats, etc I prefer not to have.
Air conditioning, air bags, trip computers and sat nav, etc are nice to have but it wouldn't bother me if they they weren't fitted. Parking sensors depend on the car (would be nice on the X type as the shape of the back of the car makes it hard to judge).
Niceties are electric windows, remote adjustable door mirrors, power steering (assuming it is a reasonable system and leaves you with some feel), etc. These are things I would pay for.
All the best
Keith
Johnboy Mac said:
It just proves on a product like a car, that Marketing & Technology do not make good bedfellows.
Personally all I want is:
Electric windows, fronts will do.
Remote central locking with alarm & auto closure.
Radio/CD player with Bluetooth.
Air Con.
Electric + heated mirrors
Heated W/screen washers
OTG
Multi adjustable cloth seats
Adjustable steering wheel
Cup holders x 2
Front fog lights
Boggo 5/6 speed manual or 5 speed auto
ABS
T/control
Cruise control
Full size spare wheel.
I think in this day & age the above is not too much to ask as everything else I can very happily live without.
You should be able to spec a car like that though? I think optional extras are a great idea. Lots of things on your list I've never used and don't ever want. Personally all I want is:
Electric windows, fronts will do.
Remote central locking with alarm & auto closure.
Radio/CD player with Bluetooth.
Air Con.
Electric + heated mirrors
Heated W/screen washers
OTG
Multi adjustable cloth seats
Adjustable steering wheel
Cup holders x 2
Front fog lights
Boggo 5/6 speed manual or 5 speed auto
ABS
T/control
Cruise control
Full size spare wheel.
I think in this day & age the above is not too much to ask as everything else I can very happily live without.
I wouldn't spec the following items from your list:
Traction control
Full size spare wheel
Cup holders
electric and heated mirrors
Bluetooth
front fog lights (how often do you need them? really!)
OTG (Oil temperature gauge?) - it'll just be a few minutes behind the water?!
However I would spec the following:
Sat nav (I drove for ten years without it, and now I've got one I absolutely love it)
heated seats (good for my bad back, and getting warm in the winter before the heating switches over. This means you don't have to drive in a coat, which I hate doing)
better gearchange (not the 'boggo' one you suggested)
MP3 player connector for the stereo
parking sensors (in a big car. I like to sit very low in a car, so I can't see the bonnet or boot...)
So it's all an individual choice really, but I do think the technology has made things easier for us. Some things on your spec list I see as unecessary modern gadgets, and likewise for you about my list I expect!
One of the issues with technology is it makes the driver less aware. If you drive an older car 70mph makes the car feel like it is doing 100mph, where as 100mph in a modern car feels like 50mph. All the driver aids make a good contribution to safety but enables bad drivers to drive beyond their capabilities easily. By making the driver less skilled it makes for even greater loss of concentration and accidents like the M5 more likely.
The thing is, back in the 80s you'd have still got there at the same time (well, if you read the map correctly and didn't get stuck in traffic) and I don't imagine the experience would have been significantly more stressful.
A lot of these aids have been developed so drivers can spend less time operating the car and more time observing whats going on around them- nearly all of them are safety features in one way or another. I fear that for most drivers they have the opposite effect, giving the driver so little to do they relax and start forgetting the to do the fundamentally important things like observe.
A lot of these aids have been developed so drivers can spend less time operating the car and more time observing whats going on around them- nearly all of them are safety features in one way or another. I fear that for most drivers they have the opposite effect, giving the driver so little to do they relax and start forgetting the to do the fundamentally important things like observe.
RobM77 said:
Johnboy Mac said:
It just proves on a product like a car, that Marketing & Technology do not make good bedfellows.
Personally all I want is:
Electric windows, fronts will do.
Remote central locking with alarm & auto closure.
Radio/CD player with Bluetooth.
Air Con.
Electric + heated mirrors
Heated W/screen washers
OTG
Multi adjustable cloth seats
Adjustable steering wheel
Cup holders x 2
Front fog lights
Boggo 5/6 speed manual or 5 speed auto
ABS
T/control
Cruise control
Full size spare wheel.
I think in this day & age the above is not too much to ask as everything else I can very happily live without.
You should be able to spec a car like that though? I think optional extras are a great idea. Lots of things on your list I've never used and don't ever want. Personally all I want is:
Electric windows, fronts will do.
Remote central locking with alarm & auto closure.
Radio/CD player with Bluetooth.
Air Con.
Electric + heated mirrors
Heated W/screen washers
OTG
Multi adjustable cloth seats
Adjustable steering wheel
Cup holders x 2
Front fog lights
Boggo 5/6 speed manual or 5 speed auto
ABS
T/control
Cruise control
Full size spare wheel.
I think in this day & age the above is not too much to ask as everything else I can very happily live without.
I wouldn't spec the following items from your list:
Traction control
Full size spare wheel
Cup holders
electric and heated mirrors
Bluetooth
front fog lights (how often do you need them? really!)
OTG (Oil temperature gauge?) - it'll just be a few minutes behind the water?!
However I would spec the following:
Sat nav (I drove for ten years without it, and now I've got one I absolutely love it)
heated seats
better gearchange (not the 'boggo' one you suggested)
MP3 player connector for the stereo
parking sensors (in a big car)
So it's all an individual choice really, but I do think the technology has made things easier for us. Some things on your spec list I see as unecessary modern gadgets, and likewise for you about my list I expect!
Most of the technology makes for easier and safer driving, allowing you to spend more time conscentrating on the road. Yes, some things are protecting idiots - adaptive cruise control, lane warning etc, but they are still making driving safer and will only dumb down the driver is he wants dumbing down.
Plus for every idiot protection item, there are more that mean the driver can spend more time focusing on driving.
I managed perfectly fine in a 1970s beetle....but the kit on my current car IS useful and IS appreciated. Simple things like an electric handbrake is a godsend sometimes, as sometimes are auto main-beam and headlight assist.
Even non-driving technology can be useful. Yes I don't NEED to be able to access the internet, or watch TV/DVDs but it is sometimes useful to do so amd makes being stuck in traffic more tollerable amd reduces the liklihood of stress and road rage!
SatNav now is a near must have. Not so much for route planning perhaps, but to be wanred of traffic issues is an amazing tool.
Plus for every idiot protection item, there are more that mean the driver can spend more time focusing on driving.
I managed perfectly fine in a 1970s beetle....but the kit on my current car IS useful and IS appreciated. Simple things like an electric handbrake is a godsend sometimes, as sometimes are auto main-beam and headlight assist.
Even non-driving technology can be useful. Yes I don't NEED to be able to access the internet, or watch TV/DVDs but it is sometimes useful to do so amd makes being stuck in traffic more tollerable amd reduces the liklihood of stress and road rage!
SatNav now is a near must have. Not so much for route planning perhaps, but to be wanred of traffic issues is an amazing tool.
I had a problem with my alternator when I first got my car and while we waited for the new 1 to arrive the guy in the garage told me not to use any of the electrical items in my car to keep as little strain on the alternator/battery as possible
That'l be the windows and heated rear screen then...
That'l be the windows and heated rear screen then...
spaximus said:
One of the issues with technology is it makes the driver less aware. If you drive an older car 70mph makes the car feel like it is doing 100mph, where as 100mph in a modern car feels like 50mph. All the driver aids make a good contribution to safety but enables bad drivers to drive beyond their capabilities easily. By making the driver less skilled it makes for even greater loss of concentration and accidents like the M5 more likely.
I drive different new cars and classic cars on a near-weekly basis, and find a lot of this technology intrusive and profoundly irritating.
Things like automatic wipers - is there such a dangerous difference between them coming on automatically and you actually thinking about the fact it's raining and flicking a column stalk? Same goes for automatic lights.
The result is when you see people in unfamiliar base-model hire cars driving along at night with their lights off and the windscreen covered in water droplets. This safety-net of technology leaves you flailing the minute you're out of your comfort zone, and a lot of these automatic systems have no measurable safety benefits, but are more like replacing the staircase in an able-bodied person's house with a Stannah stairlift.
As for satnav - I stand by my assertion that spatial awareness and map-reading are vital skills that should be taught in geography lessons at school. I only use a satnav if I'm abroad and might not be able to understand the roadsigns. For anything else, I plan the journey on a map simply because I like to know where I'm going. It instills a confidence in the driver that means you're systematically looking for certain things - road names, junction numbers etc - in a logical order, and I can be pretty sure that at any stage of the journey I know where I am and where I'm going. I find for the average journey the satnav actually throws up a bigger list of 'directions' than the simplified route on a map-planned route.
If you rely solely on a satnav, only it knows where you're really going. It breaks - what are you going to do? Starve to death in a field unable to tell the AA where you are?
It's a personal annoyance to me because a new road has recently been built running almost directly to my house. If you follow it from the turnoff from the local A-road, getting there is simplicity itself, and my house is on the very edge of the village.
However, because it's so new, it's not on anyone's satnav or Google Earth or other wretched replace-brain-with-smartphone programme yet. The alternative, as directed by these programmes, involves coming off at a later junction, driving down another A-road to another junction, doubling back, avoiding accidentally turning into Tesco car park, then negotiating an absolute labyrinth of little roads of irregular, misleading size covered in speed humps resembling Kryten's head.
I always try and explain the simple directions to visitors over the phone, and many say 'I don't need directions, I've got a satnav, this is the 21st Century FFS!'
Later that day, I WILL get a phone call wondering where the hell my house is.
There's things to help you out, and there's systems that seem to be replacing important skills and common sense. The former I'm all in favour of. The latter should frankly be banned, because if you need them, you shouldn't be driving. If the system breaks and you are no longer able to compensate and control the car, then they should be considered dangerous.
LotusOmega375D said:
Modern car technology: has it gone too far?
Yes.I can hear the conversation at the service desk of a main dealer a few years from now…
Customer: What’s wrong with my car?
Dealer: It needs the ECU software updating
Customer: Can you update the ECU software?
Dealer: No, the ECU hardware is too old
Customer: Can you install new ECU hardware?
Dealer: No, it’s not compatible with the car
Customer: Can you fix my car at all?
Dealer: No, but but you can buy a new one from the nice man over there at the sales desk
Customer: Scrap it, I’m off to buy a shed.
Later…
Newsnight: Older used car values rising!
RobM77 said:
I vote for technology - it's great and makes life easier. It brings us a step closer to the fabled leisure age and frees up time and energy for things that enrich our lifes, rather than bothering with boring details which computers can do instead.
I disagree - they seem to be replacing basic, important skills, turning a lot of people into helpless toddlers the minute they're switched off, and far from creating the 'leisure age' seem to be condemning many 'leisure' things I enjoy doing to a needless death while generating work at a breakneck rate, influencing a work culture that intrudes increasingly into our personal time.Also, there are many aspects of my life that really don't need making easier. Switching on a headlight stalk is easy (compared to, say, going round to the front of the car and lighting a gas lamp). Getting a machine to do it for you is merely lazy.
LotusOmega375D said:
I learned to drive in the 1980's. My current brand new car is a high spec manual Passat. Every time I drive it I still cannot believe what gizmos it provides and how simple it makes motoring.
Here's an example of how I used to undertake a long journey back in the day, with a comparison to today:
Then: Plan route on map. Now: set Sat-Nav. improvement if you are sensible
Then: check tyre pressures. Now: no need, Multi-Function-Display does that. improvement when they work properly
Then: unlock doors with key. Now: blip fob improvement
Then: pull choke out and start engine. Now: start engine. improvement
Then: if dark switch on lights. Now: no need, automatic. improvement, how often do you see idiots driving around without lights on/pitch black driving with sidelights
Then: feed choke back in. Now: pick nose. improvement, except for the nose picking bit....
Then: engage hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, auto-hold. Personally I dislike them, but for the motoring masses it saved people rolling in traffic jams because they are too busy doing the above instead of feeding in the choke
Then: release hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, automatic release. see above
Then: control speed on motorway with accelerator pedal. Now: set cruise control. improvement, if nothing worse on a long drive than having to keep your foot in the exact same position
Then: if it starts raining, switch on wipers. Now: no need, automatic. improvement when they work properly
Then: use local knowledge to avoid snarl-ups and roadworks. Now: obey Sat-Nav. improvement, providing you aren't an idiot, sat nav is indispensible in an unfamiliar area
Then: switch off engine in lengthy hold-ups. Now: car does it automatically. improvement
Then: open winding windows for ventilation. Now: adjust climate control. improvement
Then: stop at phone box if required. Now: phone fully integrated to call en route. improvement
Then: wind up windows and lock each door. Now: blip fob. improvement
Then: balance cup of hot tea between thighs. Now: pop it in cup holder. improvement
Then: hope tape doesn't get lunched by cassette player. Now: enjoy digital music. improvement
Added to this there are other things I don't have such as:
Parking sensors front & rear
Automatic parellel parking function
Clutchless gearbox
Seat/mirror settings memory
Active fob that opens/locks doors automatically and doesn't need inserting in dash
Self opening/closing boot-lid
To be honest all of the above functions have made driving easier and more comfortable, but the only input many drivers seem to have these days is accelerate, brake and steer, with the (occasional) flick of the indicator stalk. It's almost as if we don't need an actual driving test anymore: it could all be performed in the classroom.
Don't see the problem personally....Here's an example of how I used to undertake a long journey back in the day, with a comparison to today:
Then: Plan route on map. Now: set Sat-Nav. improvement if you are sensible
Then: check tyre pressures. Now: no need, Multi-Function-Display does that. improvement when they work properly
Then: unlock doors with key. Now: blip fob improvement
Then: pull choke out and start engine. Now: start engine. improvement
Then: if dark switch on lights. Now: no need, automatic. improvement, how often do you see idiots driving around without lights on/pitch black driving with sidelights
Then: feed choke back in. Now: pick nose. improvement, except for the nose picking bit....
Then: engage hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, auto-hold. Personally I dislike them, but for the motoring masses it saved people rolling in traffic jams because they are too busy doing the above instead of feeding in the choke
Then: release hand-brake at traffic light. Now: no need, automatic release. see above
Then: control speed on motorway with accelerator pedal. Now: set cruise control. improvement, if nothing worse on a long drive than having to keep your foot in the exact same position
Then: if it starts raining, switch on wipers. Now: no need, automatic. improvement when they work properly
Then: use local knowledge to avoid snarl-ups and roadworks. Now: obey Sat-Nav. improvement, providing you aren't an idiot, sat nav is indispensible in an unfamiliar area
Then: switch off engine in lengthy hold-ups. Now: car does it automatically. improvement
Then: open winding windows for ventilation. Now: adjust climate control. improvement
Then: stop at phone box if required. Now: phone fully integrated to call en route. improvement
Then: wind up windows and lock each door. Now: blip fob. improvement
Then: balance cup of hot tea between thighs. Now: pop it in cup holder. improvement
Then: hope tape doesn't get lunched by cassette player. Now: enjoy digital music. improvement
Added to this there are other things I don't have such as:
Parking sensors front & rear
Automatic parellel parking function
Clutchless gearbox
Seat/mirror settings memory
Active fob that opens/locks doors automatically and doesn't need inserting in dash
Self opening/closing boot-lid
To be honest all of the above functions have made driving easier and more comfortable, but the only input many drivers seem to have these days is accelerate, brake and steer, with the (occasional) flick of the indicator stalk. It's almost as if we don't need an actual driving test anymore: it could all be performed in the classroom.
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